- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 09:54:38 +0100
- To: Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>
- Cc: W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <6C713F6C-27B1-4A59-B759-1BCE43B58B62@w3.org>
The summary of the meeting is here: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meeting_Summary_2014-12-08 Ivan > On 09 Dec 2014, at 08:37 , Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > > The minutes of the Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference dated 2014-12-08 are now available at > > http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-minutes.html > > These public minutes are also linked from the dpub wiki > http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings > > Also find these minutes in a text version following, for your convenience. > > Best, > > Thierry Michel > > ---------------------------- > > [1]W3C > > [1] http://www.w3.org/ > > Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference > > 08 Dec 2014 > > [2]Agenda > > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Dec/0001.html > > See also: [3]IRC log > > [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-irc > > Attendees > > Present > George Kerscher (George_Kerscher), Deborah Kaplan > (dkaplan3), Charles LaPierre (clapierre), MikeMiller > (MikeMiller), Ivan Herman (Ivan), Tzviya Siegman > (tzviya), Luc Audrain (Luc), Markus Gylling (Markus), > Vladimir Levantovsky (Vlad), Alan Stearns (Stearns), > Bill Kasdorf (Bill_Kasdorf), Thierry Michel (tmichel), > Bert Bos (Bert), Julie Morris (Julie), Frederick Hirsch > (fjh), Ben De Meester (bjdmeest), Avneesh, Singh, > (DAISY), Dave Cramer (dauwhe), Madi Solomon (madi) > > Regrets > Peter Kreutzberger, David Stroup, Ayla Stein > > Chair > Tzviya Siegman (tzviya) > > Scribe > Dave Cramer (dauwhe) > > Contents > > * [4]Topics > 1. [5]longdesc > * [6]Summary of Action Items > __________________________________________________________ > > <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2014 > > <Vlad> Apologies, I have a conflict and will have to disconnect > in 1/2 hour > > <scribe> scribenick: dauwhe > > tzviya: we have some new people here today > > George: I'm president of IDPF and Secretary-General of DAISY > ... working on epub issues > > Avneesh: work for DAISY > ... also work on EPUB > > <tzviya> [7]http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings > > [7] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings > > tzviya: review minutes from last week > ... any comments? > > <tzviya> [8]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html > > [8] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html > > tzviya: we also had short minutes for the first time > > mgylling: we're doing short minutes until further notice? > > tzviya: yes. lots of good feedback. > > mgylling: Ivan has taken responsibility for short minutes? > > ivan: yes > > tzviya: if anyone wants to do them, Ivan would graciously > accept :) > ... first item is to review list of digital publishing terms to > present to PF > ... at TPAC we met with PF > ... about presenting a list of terms to put into an ARIA module > ... so we can have a structural semantic vocab for DPUB > ... Markus and I have worked through EPUB's vocab > > <tzviya> > [9]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8p > 7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/edit#gid=0 > > [9] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8p7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/edit#gid=0 > > tzviya: the goal is to add to this list as needed > ... the definitions in this list will be cleaned up > ... sorry... document is not yet public > ... [working on making the document public] > > <bjdmeest> this is the non-edit link (I think) > [10]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8 > p7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/pubhtml > > [10] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8p7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/pubhtml > > s/wizzard/wizard/ > > mgylling: this is a subset of epub structural semantic vocab > > tzviya: we also have include/defer column here > ... some we might want to remove > ... category may or may not be relevant > ... we'll need some additional description before presenting to > ARIA > ... and we have a few notes about current relationships with > ARIA > ... for example, around notes/note > ... the existing list has 200 terms, this is less than 40 > ... next step is to clean up, clarify definitions > ... then schedule meeting with PF > ... try to get this into module of ARIA > ... and, as always, volunteers are welcome > > ivan: still digesting > > mgylling: for context, terms that have been excluded in this > round > ... we expect to append to it in later cycles > ... PF wants to set up a more agile process for adding to ARIA > ... lots of terms are still in draft > ... including edu terms, comic terms, etc > ... we elected to wait on those > > Bill_Kasdorf: are any of these draft status? > > mgylling: I think only two > > tzviya: two or three from the testing section > ... question and answer > > Bill_Kasdorf: none from magazine vocab? > > tzviya: no > > mgylling: should we talk about staffing of task force? > > ivan: will these be used as values of role attribute? > ... if I look at "usage" column > > <tzviya> > <dc:source>[11]http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/</sourc > e> > > [11] http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/ > > ivan: do we want to make a restriction on which HTML element > can be used for that specific value? > > mgylling: on which element the value is expected to occur? > > ivan: allowed > > mgylling: we have epub definition of usage, which is > recommended, not required > ... we need to ARIA-ify these > ... will be put in same framework as existing ARIA roles > ... so we'll need to do same things ARIA already does for each > term > > ivan: ARIA can define a restriction? > > mgylling: yes > ... HTML5 may also have restrictions > ... right now we're working on the ARIA definitions > ... looking for an example now... > > tzviya: the glossary terms are a good example > ... <dl role="glossary"> > ... might restrict it to just that or might have <ul > role="glossary"> > > ivan: I don't know all the possible restrictions PF can set > > tzviya: it's not just sending a list to PF, we should have a > task force with regular meetings > ... Markus and I will work on this, and we want volunteers to > join us > > George: I've joined the PF list and am ready to participate > > mgylling: They'll want to know who will chair or co-chair this > task force > ... if we could decide this today it would be good > > Bill_Kasdorf: within the IG? > > mgylling: Joint task force between DPUB and PF > > ivan: at some point I did volunteer at TPAC to look at > OWL-specific things > > tzviya: I'm happy to help out > > mgylling: initially we can propose Markus and Tzviya as > co-chairs > > tzviya: and thank you George > > Bill_Kasdorf: yes > > tzviya: any other questions about the progress of this task > force? > > ivan: I want to understand whether we have a plan on the timing > and the road ahead > ... where are the bottlenecks? > > tzviya: good question > ... we were the first big bottleneck > ... next phase is setting up task force meetings > ... holidays will complicate that > ... next bottleneck will be agreeing on definitions > > mgylling: hard to predict how much time it will take to bless > and publish this > > ivan: I felt that IDPF already has the definitions for these > terms > ... aren't they already there? > > mgylling: they are our initial proposed definitions > ... but as we move into new context there may be an evolution > > ivan: we do not start from scratch > > tzviya: I'd like to get this to PF this week > > ivan: their question will be > ... I don't know what you mean by SSV category > > tzviya: I would like to get a cleaned-up version of this to PF > this week > > <Vlad> sorry, have to disconnect now > > tzviya: I'd like to have the task force meetings in December > ... want to get it moving this month > ... we'll have something to present to PF this week > ... we'll at least have a meeting scheduled soon > ... but much depends on how PF interprets this > > <mgylling> > [12]http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/PR-html-longdesc-20141204/ > > [12] http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/PR-html-longdesc-20141204/ > > longdesc > > <mgylling> (AC only) > [13]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/longdesc-PR/ > > [13] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/longdesc-PR/ > > mgylling: here's the AC review link > ... we have been reminded that input from the publishing > community is desired > ... so how can we produce a review? > ... we need to poke all publisher W3C members to do this review > > George: I was hoping to clarify in my mind the implications of > this > ... clarifying the usage, and then asking other w3c members to > comment > > mgylling: in terms of clarifying the usage, can you rephrase as > question? This has been discussed for more than a decade > > George: when a long desc is needed, such as "the Diagrammar", a > framework for making images accessible > ... when would you use long desc, and the other aspect is SVG, > how do we add enhancements to other elements other than just > the image? > ... this is just focused on image > ... there are other items that need a description > ... is the rec that there be a variety of techniques, depending > on the element? Like canvas... > > mgylling: right > ... there is an attribute in ARIA 1.1 called described-at, > which takes a URL so you can point outside the doc > ... which is a more generic version of longdesc > ... longdesc is allowed on IMG and map only > ... so you're asking about what is the long-term vision > > George: there's the political aspect > ... it's been a Herculean effort from them > ... just trying to get my head around all this > > mgylling: it's safe to say that in PF strategy terms, longdesc > is intended to solve problems in the short term > ... while waiting for ARIA 1.1 to me mature > > George: the techniques for exposing this attribute, in Firefox > it's a context menu item > ... I think the long term goal is good > > mgylling: another thing on horizon is annotations > ... which can be used for a11y > ... with annotations, the pointing direction is reversed > ... it's good to have both described-at and annotations > ... that's the end point > > ivan: I'm a bit bothered by what's happening in terms of > process > ... George is asking about long term > ... procedurally, at this point the only thing that members can > vote on > ... is essentially a yes or no, since this is already a PR > ... they may decide it's not to be a REC > ... but it is not at this stage that any technical comments > should occur > ... but we missed the boat > ... If publishers support this, that's a valuable message, as > there has been controversy > > George: we supplied formal written comments a couple of years > ago > > clapierre: a couple questions > > <clapierre> > [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014A > ug/0028.html > > [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Aug/0028.html > > clapierre: first, here's Apple's formal objection > ... if this long description is pointing to a URL, how does > this work offline > > <mgylling> > [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014O > ct/0099.html > > [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Oct/0099.html > > mgylling: good questions > ... having monitored this for a decade, I'm lacking enthusiasm > to start into this again > ... it is what it is > ... the politics are so involved that technical merit > discussions are moot > ... it doesn't solve all problems, but solves some > ... but it's not the golden wrench > ... it's just one thing in the toolbox > > clapierre: ARIA seems like the right approach > ... affects SVG, STEM... > ... it was rejected for HTML > ... will this get into a revision of HTML5 quicker than ARIA? > > ivan: not sure how this is done editorially > ... it might be an extension > > George: the politics here is that if DPUB or a number of > members come out against longdesc > ... the public would view this as the publishing industry not > wanting to support a11y > ... that would be the appearance of it > ... that's the wrong message > ... I don't think we could avoid that (mis)perception > ... if the group came out against longdesc > > ivan: I understand > ... I don't want to evade the issue > ... but since we're in PR, this IG is not in position to be > pro/con > ... this is now in the hands of the individual members > ... it's way too late > ... it's out of the hands of the groups > > tzviya: Let's remind people to review this, but it's not the > place of DPUB to say how to vote > > mgylling: so we want to get the publishing industry to vote > ... It's a milestone, but it's not the endpoint > ... the more important question is what to do after longdesc? > ... participation in PF from publishing is low > ... maybe we should get more people to work on ARIA 1.1 > > George: participation in PF and ARIA is going to be important > ... also, the implementations of those features and functions > is important > ... like in Readium > > Bill_Kasdorf: with regard to longdesc, what is the status of > implementation > > mgylling: there is an implementation report published with the > provisional rec > ... we're poking AC reps... > ... how can we be more proactive moving forward, that's a > matter of resource assignment > ... so now's a good time for digital publishing to get involved > in ARIA > > <mgylling> ack [IPcaller] > > avnesh: what happens if review for longdesc is negative? > > mgylling: what would we practically do? > ... epub 3.0.1 already allows aria described-at > ... we can't easily answer the question > ... any last questions? > ... thanks everyone > > all: bye bye bye bye bye > > <ivan> trackbot, end telcon > > Summary of Action Items > > [End of minutes] > __________________________________________________________ > > > Minutes formatted by David Booth's [16]scribe.perl version > 1.140 ([17]CVS log) > $Date: 2014-12-09 07:36:01 $ > __________________________________________________________ > > [16] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm > [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ > > Scribe.perl diagnostic output > > [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.] > This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 > Check for newer version at [18]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ > scribe/ > > [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/ > > Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) > > Succeeded: s/Amnish/Avneesh/ > FAILED: s/wizzard/wizard/ > Succeeded: s/diagrammer/Diagrammar/ > Succeeded: s/description/direction/ > Succeeded: s/controvery/controversy/ > Succeeded: s/???/avnesh/ > Succeeded: s/epub 3.1/epub 3.0.1/ > Found ScribeNick: dauwhe > Inferring Scribes: dauwhe > Default Present: George_Kerscher, dkaplan3, [IPcaller], clapierre, MikeM > iller, Ivan, +1.212.255.aaaa, tzviya, Luc, Markus, Vlad, Stearns, bjdmee > st, Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry, Bert, +1.347.633.aabb, Julie, fjh > Present: George_Kerscher dkaplan3 [IPcaller] clapierre MikeMiller Ivan + > 1.212.255.aaaa tzviya Luc Markus Vlad Stearns bjdmeest Bill_Kasdorf Thie > rry Bert +1.347.633.aabb Julie fjh Ben_De_Meester Avneesh Singh (DAISY) > > WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Madi, David_Stroup) > Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the lis > t, > such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ pkra, david_stroup > > Regrets: pkra david_stroup > Agenda: [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014De > c/0001.html > > [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Dec/0001.html > > WARNING: No meeting chair found! > You should specify the meeting chair like this: > <dbooth> Chair: dbooth > > Found Date: 08 Dec 2014 > Guessing minutes URL: [20]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-minutes.html > People with action items: > > [20] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-minutes.html > > > [End of [21]scribe.perl diagnostic output] > > [21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm > > > ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Digital Publishing Activity Lead Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
Received on Tuesday, 9 December 2014 08:55:48 UTC