Re: 7th August: DIDWG Special Topic Call - Abstract Data Model

Thanks Tom,
BNF is a notation to describe context free grammars, i.e. a syntax of
something. INFRA focuses on data structures and algorithms description,
i.e. data and processing.  A context, as you defined it in the second
paragraph, can be modeled as an input to an algorithm, and there are many
other ways.

I admit I don't fully follow what you propose. I'm happy to learn about any
INFRA alternative, actually I would love to see something else allowing us
to describe uniformly data structures and algorithms, and see code
generators taking it as an input. [A]BNF and INFRA are two different things
to me.

Best,
Filip


On Sat, Aug 10, 2024 at 7:46 PM Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Filip - right, that is an interesting addition, but it does not address
> the issue I raised - normal form syntacies are context free.
> Context free works well for restful HTML, thich is what they have been
> used to define.
> But the semantic web is not restful. The following structures add context
> - are they needed and can they be modeled with INFRA?
> 1. cookies - or any context saved on the device from one message to
> another.
> 2. @context":
> 3. channel binding - aka token binding
> 4. trust relationships
> I got those without much effort - there are likely others.
> if you like INFRA - try to model these structures before you make a choice.
>
> Peace ..tom
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 10, 2024 at 10:17 AM Filip Kolarik <filip26@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>> Backus-Naur form and variations are great to describe syntax. INFRA adds
>> an ability to describe algorithms, which is one INFRA's main goal:
>>
>> * Help write clear and readable algorithmic prose by clarifying otherwise
>> ambiguous concepts
>>
>> https://infra.spec.whatwg.org/#goals
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Filip
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2024 at 6:45 PM Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i guess i should have added this as well
>>>
>>> ABNF is a standardized formal grammar notation used in several Internet
>>> syntax specifications, e.g. URI, HTTP, IMF, SMTP, IMAP, and JSON. ABNF is
>>> specified by RFC 5234 and RFC 7405; the latter updates two portions of the
>>> former. The syntax of ABNF is specified in ABNF itself.
>>> ..tom
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2024 at 9:29 AM Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It might help others, like those in CS or CE to explain that INFRA is a
>>>> means to describe the structure of the Chromium user agent. (Not other user
>>>> agents AFAIK.)
>>>> One part of INFRA is a standard is to reduce the syntax to a current
>>>> version of the Backus–Naur form.
>>>> I find context to be helpful in evaluating a proposal.
>>>> NB. I have no issues with normal forms, but am not currently a user
>>>> myself.
>>>>  Interestingly, most normal forms are context free, which is a
>>>> limitation that makes them easy to use, but ...
>>>>
>>>> Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:06 PM Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:06 PM Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > I couldn't find any examples of where it is used for a shipping
>>>>> product.  Got a link?
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's one for HTML5:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/infrastructure.html#infrastructure
>>>>>
>>>>> ... and Fetch:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#infrastructure
>>>>>
>>>>> ... and the File API:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/
>>>>>
>>>>> ... as I said, shipping to billions of people.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- manu
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Manu Sporny - https://www.linkedin.com/in/manusporny/
>>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>> https://www.digitalbazaar.com/
>>>>>
>>>>