Re: CfC to make Screen Wake Lock, DeviceOrientation Event, and Geolocation joint deliverables

I agree with Marcos that the Success Criteria question does not apply to
publishing updated Working Drafts that reflect the joint deliverable status
and that is all that's needed at this time.

While fixing the error in the WebApps WG charter is important it doesn't
change the goal. The whole reason we adopted these specifications as joint
deliverables was that they have the necessary implementation commitments to
advance on the standards track.

Reilly Grant | Software Engineer | reillyg@google.com | Google Chrome
<https://www.google.com/chrome>


On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 3:34 AM Kostiainen, Anssi <
anssi.kostiainen@intel.com> wrote:

> Hi Marcos,
>
> With my chair hat on I respectfully disagree. This is an important issue
> and it needs careful deliberation.
>
> Let me illustrate this situation with a real-world analogue that is easier
> for the wider group to relate to:
>
> In this game two teams work toward a common goal. The players want to know
> the rules of the game before the kick off.
>
> The players hear the new rules of the game contain substantive errors
> before the game has started. Specifically, the players hear it is unclear
> what is considered a goal in this game.
>
> If you are a referee in this game, do you kick off the game regardless?
>
> In my mind, a reasonable referee would say the errors must be corrected
> prior to the kick off.
>
> (Replace “game” with “joint group”, ”players” with “participants",
> “referee” with “chair", ”rules” with “Charter", and ”goal” with "Success
> Criteria".)
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Anssi
>
> > On 28. Mar 2024, at 6.32, Marcos Caceres <marcosc@apple.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Anssi,
> >
> > The charter of both working groups already state that these are joint
> deliverables, so no CFC is (or was!) needed to publish.
> >
> > The Echidna stuff is just a formality - both groups already operate on
> “auto-publish” basis, and have for years. Even Contact Picker (which was
> already a joint deliverable) is auto-published using DAS’s Decision URL
> [1], without a CFC from WebApps (at least that I remember).
> >
> > We would only do a CFC if we wanted to advance a joint deliverable to
> another Status. If we want to do that, then that’s what we need to discuss
> and get agreement on across the two groups.
> >
> > I don’t see any blockers to continuing to publish Screen Wake Lock and
> Orientation Event as regular Working Drafts. We can, and should, just do
> that ASAP to allow us to continue keeping those specs fresh on /TR/.
> >
> > It seems we just need a plan to revert Geolocation back to Working Draft
> so we can update it (the "Updatable Rec" process is no fun, we should ditch
> that). Let’s take that up separately.
> >
> > [1]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2021May/0008.html
> >
> >
> >> On 27 Mar 2024, at 1:45 AM, Kostiainen, Anssi <
> anssi.kostiainen@intel.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi DAS+WebApps WGs,
> >> +Atsushi,
> >>
> >> This Call for Consensus fails.
> >>
> >> Reason: It has been brought to our attention [1] (in response to [2])
> that the current Success Criteria of the WebApps WG Charter contains
> significant errors and substantive changes are expected requiring Advisory
> Committee review. These proposed changes impact how the envisioned joint
> group can advance its joint deliverables on the Recommendation Track.
> >>
> >> We are seeking further clarification and will issue a new CfC as soon
> as possible and provide you with any new information that may emerge to
> assist you in informed decision-making on this topic.
> >>
> >> Thank you for your understanding.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> -Anssi
> >>
> >> [1]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2024Mar/0018.html
> >> [2]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2024Mar/0017.html
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 18. Mar 2024, at 16.16, Kostiainen, Anssi <
> anssi.kostiainen@intel.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi DAS+WebApps WGs,
> >>>
> >>> This is a Call for Consensus to make Screen Wake Lock [1],
> DeviceOrientation Event [2], and Geolocation [3] specifications joint
> deliverables between the Devices and Sensors Working Group and Web
> Applications Working Group and to continue use the automated publication
> system (“Echidna”) for these specifications after they have been adopted as
> joint deliverables.
> >>>
> >>> This CfC is the record of the group decision for both the groups.
> >>>
> >>> Please let us know by 26 March 2024 if you have any comments or
> questions.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> -Anssi
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/screen-wake-lock/
> >>> [2] https://www.w3.org/TR/orientation-event/
> >>> [3] https://www.w3.org/TR/geolocation/
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>