- From: Ilya Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com>
- Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 07:50:48 -0700
- To: Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com>, Yoav Weiss <yoavweiss@google.com>
- Cc: Addy Osmani <addyo@google.com>, "TOREINI, EHSAN" <ehsan.toreini@durham.ac.uk>, Noam Helfman <noamh@microsoft.com>, Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws>, Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com>, W3C Devices and Sensors WG <public-device-apis@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CADXXVKrW8gRbCZioDwksz43te_gJQ_cw2B7Q8L+ffcN3FQkkDA@mail.gmail.com>
Hey all. On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 5:12 AM Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com> wrote: > Thanks, all, for the responses so far. The initial question for @Ilya > Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com> still stands (whether there's still some > active spec work happening). > +Yoav Weiss <yoavweiss@google.com> captured it well, there is desire but no active spec work to address some of the lessons learned. If someone is willing to drive that process, that'd be great. > Also, thanks, Addy, for the household names, we definitely have some > strong industry representatives in there and can thus say the use cases are > indeed valid and on active use. > > For the use cases in fact, there's some great discussion happening already > in issue 85 <https://github.com/WICG/netinfo/issues/85>, with the > "metered" aspects being the topic of issue 84 > <https://github.com/WICG/netinfo/issues/84>. So I guess we're in a > theoretically good position to continue this discussion and just need to > agree on a practical way as to the how. Is this an adequate summary of the > state of affairs? > Yes, I'd just caution not to over-index on the past backlog and first spend some quality time on unpacking lessons learned from what is already out there, and have a think on whether there is a simpler implementation that can satisfy the key needs whilst exposing less entropy. ig > Thanks, > Tom > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 5:11 PM Addy Osmani <addyo@google.com> wrote: > >> Hey folks, >> >> I have observed almost no partner sites leveraging .type, but many do >> rely on ECT for an adaptive loading strategy on low-quality networks >> (Tinder, eBay, Algolia, Twitter). As Yoav mentioned, the most recent >> conversations regarding ECT have focused on ways to offer a higher-level >> signal with less entropy, which could do the right thing from a privacy >> perspective. This direction does receive some pushback from partners who >> want as much granularity as they can get. >> >> If folks are after specific case studies, happy to pull a list together. >> >> Cheers! >> Addy >> >> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 7:52 AM TOREINI, EHSAN < >> ehsan.toreini@durham.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> Hi Noam, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for link. Same as here, tracking was the first scenario I came up >>> with. I will have a read… >>> >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Ehsan >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *Noam Helfman <noamh@microsoft.com> >>> *Date: *Thursday, 22 October 2020 at 15:48 >>> *To: *"TOREINI, EHSAN" <ehsan.toreini@durham.ac.uk>, Thomas Steiner < >>> tomac@google.com>, Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> >>> *Cc: *Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com>, Ilya Grigorik < >>> igrigorik@google.com>, Addy Osmani <addyo@google.com>, W3C Devices and >>> Sensors WG <public-device-apis@w3.org> >>> *Subject: *Re: Network Information API >>> >>> >>> >>> Some privacy related content here: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://wicg.github.io/netinfo/#privacy-considerations >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* TOREINI, EHSAN <ehsan.toreini@durham.ac.uk> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2020 5:18:19 PM >>> *To:* Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com>; Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> >>> *Cc:* Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com>; Noam Helfman < >>> noamh@microsoft.com>; Ilya Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com>; Addy Osmani >>> <addyo@google.com>; W3C Devices and Sensors WG < >>> public-device-apis@w3.org> >>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Network Information API >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Quick question, is there any discussions on the privacy and security >>> implications of network api somewhere? If not, it might be a good idea to >>> consider that aspect, too. >>> >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Ehsan >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com> >>> *Date: *Thursday, 22 October 2020 at 12:25 >>> *To: *Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> >>> *Cc: *Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com>, Tarun Bansal < >>> tbansal@google.com>, Noam Helfman <noamh@microsoft.com>, Ilya Grigorik < >>> igrigorik@google.com>, Addy Osmani <addyo@google.com>, W3C Devices and >>> Sensors WG <public-device-apis@w3.org> >>> *Subject: *Re: Network Information API >>> *Resent from: *<public-device-apis@w3.org> >>> *Resent date: *Thursday, 22 October 2020 at 12:24 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 10:00 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> wrote: >>> >>> +Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com> +Noam Helfman <noamh@microsoft.com> >>> - FYI >>> >>> >>> >>> Hey Thomas! >>> >>> >>> >>> This was somewhat discussed in the WebPerformance WG yesterday (rough >>> minutes >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1inejuvPONXPOLKTCcUzOBhPh6QOckMcltnR-E3xyZVQ%2Fedit%3Fts%3D5f809f01%23heading%3Dh.8gfnc7p4nih&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048497823%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=23k0jVh7mu%2FT60o21VgtOP%2B4AOy12ZbzyQQQgRF5mrA%3D&reserved=0>, >>> video >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FaID3BvpU_pE&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048507825%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qzs71Rc19zdXHDmmAUZTMPnWnsbwxLQohk4Y%2BfcFMvI%3D&reserved=0> >>> ). >>> >>> Regarding spec work, at least on my end, there's desire (but not >>> necessarily immediate capacity) to revamp the API to ensure it provides >>> more value to developers while emitting less entropy. >>> >>> >>> >>> Yeah, the objective is shared between the two WGs :-) >>> >>> >>> >>> The use cases, at least as far as I'm concerned, are not around `type`, >>> but around providing accurate measurement of the network conditions (so >>> around `effectiveConnectionType` and `RTT`). (e.g. this blog post >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.algolia.com%2Fnetinfo-api-algolia-javascript-client%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048507825%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=T65g1SMI2lT5hEn9pyLDOI0wNwURyqYS%2F7cM%2Fo2NbMU%3D&reserved=0> >>> ) >>> >>> >>> >>> Just to clarify, I meant the use cases as outlined in the spec >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwicg.github.io%2Fnetinfo%2F%23requirements-and-use-cases&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048517817%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tv1RUFp3JinV7YoiS5W%2BYssTMbvHQGHe36FlSsNKwgA%3D&reserved=0>. >>> Marcos Caceres confirmed my suspicion that it all started with .type, >>> and then later on more details were added, but the use cases in the spec >>> not updated. >>> >>> >>> >>> Maybe Addy has more case studies. >>> >>> >>> >>> That would be great! >>> >>> >>> >>> If folks at Device & Sensors are interested in collaborating on NetInfo >>> at the WICG or elsewhere, that'd be awesome! :) >>> >>> >>> >>> We're definitely interested, judging from the discussion today. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Tom >>> >> > > -- > Thomas Steiner, PhD—Developer Advocate (https://blog.tomayac.com, > https://twitter.com/tomayac) > > Google Germany GmbH, ABC-Str. 19, 20354 Hamburg, Germany > Geschäftsführer: Paul Manicle, Halimah DeLaine Prado > Registergericht und -nummer: Hamburg, HRB 86891 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.1.23 (GNU/Linux) > > > iFy0uwAntT0bE3xtRa5AfeCheCkthAtTh3reSabiGbl0ck0fjumBl3DCharaCTersAttH3b0ttom. > hTtPs://xKcd.cOm/1181/ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >
Received on Friday, 23 October 2020 14:51:39 UTC