Re: Network Information API

Thanks, all, for the responses so far. The initial question for @Ilya
Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com> still stands (whether there's still some
active spec work happening).

Also, thanks, Addy, for the household names, we definitely have some strong
industry representatives in there and can thus say the use cases are indeed
valid and on active use.

For the use cases in fact, there's some great discussion happening already
in issue 85 <https://github.com/WICG/netinfo/issues/85>, with the "metered"
aspects being the topic of issue 84
<https://github.com/WICG/netinfo/issues/84>. So I guess we're in a
theoretically good position to continue this discussion and just need to
agree on a practical way as to the how. Is this an adequate summary of the
state of affairs?

Thanks,
Tom

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 5:11 PM Addy Osmani <addyo@google.com> wrote:

> Hey folks,
>
> I have observed almost no partner sites leveraging .type, but many do rely
> on ECT for an adaptive loading strategy on low-quality networks (Tinder,
> eBay, Algolia, Twitter). As Yoav mentioned, the most recent conversations
> regarding ECT have focused on ways to offer a higher-level signal with less
> entropy, which could do the right thing from a privacy perspective. This
> direction does receive some pushback from partners who want as much
> granularity as they can get.
>
> If folks are after specific case studies, happy to pull a list together.
>
> Cheers!
> Addy
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 7:52 AM TOREINI, EHSAN <ehsan.toreini@durham.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Noam,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for link. Same as here, tracking was the first scenario I came up
>> with. I will have a read…
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Ehsan
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Noam Helfman <noamh@microsoft.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, 22 October 2020 at 15:48
>> *To: *"TOREINI, EHSAN" <ehsan.toreini@durham.ac.uk>, Thomas Steiner <
>> tomac@google.com>, Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws>
>> *Cc: *Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com>, Ilya Grigorik <
>> igrigorik@google.com>, Addy Osmani <addyo@google.com>, W3C Devices and
>> Sensors WG <public-device-apis@w3.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: Network Information API
>>
>>
>>
>> Some privacy related content here:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://wicg.github.io/netinfo/#privacy-considerations
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* TOREINI, EHSAN <ehsan.toreini@durham.ac.uk>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2020 5:18:19 PM
>> *To:* Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com>; Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws>
>> *Cc:* Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com>; Noam Helfman <
>> noamh@microsoft.com>; Ilya Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com>; Addy Osmani <
>> addyo@google.com>; W3C Devices and Sensors WG <public-device-apis@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Network Information API
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Quick question, is there any discussions on the privacy and security
>> implications of network api somewhere? If not, it might be a good idea to
>> consider that aspect, too.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Ehsan
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, 22 October 2020 at 12:25
>> *To: *Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws>
>> *Cc: *Thomas Steiner <tomac@google.com>, Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com>,
>> Noam Helfman <noamh@microsoft.com>, Ilya Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com>,
>> Addy Osmani <addyo@google.com>, W3C Devices and Sensors WG <
>> public-device-apis@w3.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: Network Information API
>> *Resent from: *<public-device-apis@w3.org>
>> *Resent date: *Thursday, 22 October 2020 at 12:24
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 10:00 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> wrote:
>>
>> +Tarun Bansal <tbansal@google.com> +Noam Helfman <noamh@microsoft.com>
>> - FYI
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Thomas!
>>
>>
>>
>> This was somewhat discussed in the WebPerformance WG yesterday (rough
>> minutes
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1inejuvPONXPOLKTCcUzOBhPh6QOckMcltnR-E3xyZVQ%2Fedit%3Fts%3D5f809f01%23heading%3Dh.8gfnc7p4nih&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048497823%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=23k0jVh7mu%2FT60o21VgtOP%2B4AOy12ZbzyQQQgRF5mrA%3D&reserved=0>,
>> video
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FaID3BvpU_pE&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048507825%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qzs71Rc19zdXHDmmAUZTMPnWnsbwxLQohk4Y%2BfcFMvI%3D&reserved=0>
>> ).
>>
>> Regarding spec work, at least on my end, there's desire (but not
>> necessarily immediate capacity) to revamp the API to ensure it provides
>> more value to developers while emitting less entropy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, the objective is shared between the two WGs :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> The use cases, at least as far as I'm concerned, are not around `type`,
>> but around providing accurate measurement of the network conditions (so
>> around `effectiveConnectionType` and `RTT`). (e.g. this blog post
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.algolia.com%2Fnetinfo-api-algolia-javascript-client%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048507825%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=T65g1SMI2lT5hEn9pyLDOI0wNwURyqYS%2F7cM%2Fo2NbMU%3D&reserved=0>
>> )
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to clarify, I meant the use cases as outlined in the spec
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwicg.github.io%2Fnetinfo%2F%23requirements-and-use-cases&data=04%7C01%7Cnoamh%40microsoft.com%7Cba73f04ae3fd460fca3008d87695553a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637389731048517817%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tv1RUFp3JinV7YoiS5W%2BYssTMbvHQGHe36FlSsNKwgA%3D&reserved=0>.
>> Marcos Caceres confirmed my suspicion that it all started with .type,
>> and then later on more details were added, but the use cases in the spec
>> not updated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe Addy has more case studies.
>>
>>
>>
>> That would be great!
>>
>>
>>
>> If folks at Device & Sensors are interested in collaborating on NetInfo
>> at the WICG or elsewhere, that'd be awesome! :)
>>
>>
>>
>> We're definitely interested, judging from the discussion today.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tom
>>
>

-- 
Thomas Steiner, PhD—Developer Advocate (https://blog.tomayac.com,
https://twitter.com/tomayac)

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