Re: network neutrality and speech codecs

Sorry for the top-post, but this thread got a little confusing / 
difficult to enter into.

As I understand it, Frederick, you're referring to the conclusion from 
the following thread:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0089.html
"there was no explicit support for your proposal... the proposal hasn't 
gathered consensus."

The issue was brought up, but not discussed, and was consequently tabled.

James Salsman brought up 8 bullet point items, it seems that many were 
discussed; together they bring up a complex issue about how the User 
Agent may provide hints to an application as to Quality of Service.

I consider everything that the User Agent provides as nothing more than 
a hint... I suggest other developers do the same, and allow users to 
configure their settings as User Agents may intentionally obfuscate 
interfaces.

Apart from those hints, Salsman brought up codecs, which is what 
Dominique Hazael-Massieux explicitly referred to in his statement that:
"[there are] well-known difficulties in finding codecs that meet the 
requirements".

Is there additional discussion? I've looked for additional discussion on 
the the September 2010 logs, only finding the conclusion by 
Hazael-Massieux that the issue should be tabled.

I would like to know, with some detail, why the FLAC file format is not 
being carried forward within the W3C. It seems to be analogous to the 
PNG file format for 2d graphics data.
Given that the W3C is pressing forward with audio data, it seems prudent 
that they include FLAC as a baseline format.

Beyond that, there are additional formats that would be quite useful to 
developers. The Canvas tag included PNG as a baseline format, and 
vendors subsequently included the JPEG format.
Shouldn't FLAC be included in reference audio? The principle is the same.

And in audio, shouldn't there be some reference to lossless codecs, such 
as Speex, so we have a path for including them?
The Canvas tag did provide for supporting jpeg quality attributes by 
allowing additional arguments in all methods that output the PNG file 
format.

In that manner, Canvas has remained format neutral, while still 
providing a lossless format that all implementations support.


-Charles


On 10/10/2011 2:22 PM, Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com wrote:
>>> PS: How does this relate to hotel booking?
>> If the chairs continue to forbid polling on these matters, I will not attend.
> James, I think the point was that instead of responding to a thread on the members-only list about hotels, a new message on the public list with an appropriate subject was needed. Thanks for starting a new thread.
>
> That said, the chairs do have a responsibility to keep the WG moving forward and not revisiting previously decided matters, or items that are out of scope.
>
> I notice you are raising a topic  that was discussed on the list a year ago (September 2010) - is there any new technical information here to discuss?
>
> regards, Frederick
>
> Frederick Hirsch
> Nokia
>
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2011, at 4:59 PM, ext James Salsman wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Robin Berjon<robin@berjon.com>  wrote:
>>> Hi James,
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2011, at 20:25 , James Salsman wrote:
>>>> Are you willing to accept a group discussion of whether and how to
>>>> support network neutrality with the network device API?  If not, why
>>>> not?
>>> Is there any new technical input to this discussion that was not covered last time around?
>> Yes, the FCC recently issued regulations on the matter which I propose
>> we explicitly endorse, and the membership has not yet been polled on
>> the questions of whether to require each of the eight network
>> neutrality measurements I have proposed be made available in the
>> network device API:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0088.html
>>
>>>> How about a discussion of including explicit support for Speex and FLAC codecs?
>>> At this stage we do not have specifications being actively developed that require codecs of any fashion
>> I am afraid you are mistaken, unless Media Capture has made it to Last
>> Call and I was not informed.
>>
>>> PS: How does this relate to hotel booking?
>> If the chairs continue to forbid polling on these matters, I will not attend.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> James Salsman
>

Received on Monday, 10 October 2011 23:33:47 UTC