Re: Starting Our Mission

Pete & Martin,

I'm not sure how a DOM-model based WebVR system would be mostly static. 
You can do a lot of dynamic page work with DOM (e.g., Facebook). DOM 
doesn't dictate rectangular regions, it is an API for interacting with 
the document (web page). CSS uses the box model for definition of regions.

Picking objects in 3D space with WebGL is pretty straight-forward. 
Select a cursor position and a region size. WebGL returns a list of all 
objects (geometries) that intersect the region. Which object you pick is 
probably application dependent, depending on the transparency or 
thickness of the objects.

X3DOM is integrated with DOM and mostly responds to and generates DOM 
events.


Leonard Daly



On 11/30/2016 5:35 PM, Pete Markiewicz wrote:
> I think the question is mostly about what declarative webvr will be 
> capable of. If it follows a DOM model, one imagines a mostly static, 
> event-driven WebVR system, which is quite different from the typical 
> web game. A key issue will be what the dom model for 3d does with 
> "shapes". In standard web dom, you are working with 2d boxes (unless 
> you're pioneering regions). In contrast, 3d has much more complex 
> shapes with ill-defined properties (e.g. "bounding box" compare to 
> "box"). What is a "border" around a shape?
>
> To make things work best with the DOM, one would have to define 3d 
> properties more like CSS and less like WebGL. The 3d equivalent of a 
> "style" property would be mind-blowingly complex, with many solutions 
> in current 3D systems to choose from.
>
> It could be that things like picking a 3d object, pretty complex in 
> webgl, are best rationalized by some equivalent of gesture events. A 
> common way to select is by focused gaze. However, the integration of 
> gamepad API argues for a much more complex selection of "gestures".
>
> The current systems are wrappers around WebGL, and therefore reflect 
> 3d modeling assumptions instead of website navigation.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Martin Splitt <mr.avgp@gmail.com 
> <mailto:mr.avgp@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hey Leonard,
>
>     thanks for kicking things off!
>
>     I personally think (1) and (2) are a necessity for a Declarative
>     WebVR group and (3) is just as important to avoid reinventing VRML
>     / X3DOM.
>
>     I wonder what the sentiment is towards WebGL around here? Could it
>     be a backing technology, potentially reducing the implementation
>     effort or shall we step back from that and see what is possible
>     with CSS and maybe a new way of getting a 3D context in the browser?
>
>     Looking forward to the discussions and other opinions!
>
>     Cheers,
>     Martin
>
>     2016-11-30 5:58 GMT+01:00 Leonard Daly <web3d@realism.com
>     <mailto:web3d@realism.com>>:
>
>         As this appears to be the first message in this group, I would
>         like to propose how we develop the Declarative WebVR standard.
>         The community involved here is very diverse, represents a
>         variety of viewpoints, and has a varied set of experiences and
>         background. I feel that it is important to allow everyone to
>         contribute to the discussion and resolution of differences.
>
>         The first step would be to agree on a starting point. I have
>         found that it is best to keep the initial
>         assertions/assumptions to a minimum. I am proposing a very
>         small set and am not expecting these to be the adopted without
>         discussion and revision as the initial assertions/assumptions.
>
>         1) The standard must define a declarative language
>         2) It must be capable of running in the context of a web browser
>         3) It must provide a DOM interface
>
>         I encourage you to respond with revisions, suggestions, or
>         even agreement. The important thing is to get the discussion
>         going.
>
>
>         -- 
>         *Leonard Daly*
>         3D Systems Architect & Cloud Consultant
>         President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> =============================================================================
> *Dr. Pete Markiewicz*
> *Email:*pindiespace@gmail.com <mailto:pindiespace@gmail.com>
> *Sustainable virtual design blog:* 
> http://sustainablevirtualdesign.wordpress.com 
> <http://sustainablevirtualdesign.wordpress.com/>
> *Sustainability template:* http://greenboilerplate.com 
> <http://greenboilerplate.com/>
> *Sustainable Ux: 
> **https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuOV5VywXTg&list=PLrJVv8APJhWmHnDXE7xIns5RjAmos1Nj7&index=8*
> *Teaching site: *http://plyojump.com <http://www.plyojump.com/>
> *Buy my book! *- Millennials and the Popular Culture
> *Lifecourse:* http://www.lifecourse.com/store/catalog/lca/mpc.html
> * AmazonAuthor Page:* 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pete-Markiewicz/e/B0069VZ7BG/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_2
> /On that page, see my DARPA Grand Challenge 2005 entry video, "Team 
> Robomonster":/
> *Team Robomonster *(DARPA 2005 Grand Challenge):
> http://robotsthatjump.wordpress.com/category/team-robomonster/
> *Indiespace *(1st to sell downloaded music, March 1994): 
> http://www.indiespace.com <http://www.indiespace.com/>. Also see 
> http://archive.org <http://archive.org/> under
> "Kspace.com" 1996 for our original site.
> =============================================================================


-- 
*Leonard Daly*
3D Systems Architect & Cloud Consultant
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/