Re: TPAC meeting minutes 1 NOV 2011, annotated with links

added links, now that networking is available

On 11/1/2011 1:52 PM, Don Brutzman wrote:
> [...]
> 2.  We asked about the W3C AR community group.  There was no meeting
> for this group at TPAC, and the mailing list has been silent for
> about 2 months.  Not sure if they are still active.

http://www.w3.org/community/ar/

no wiki page found

> Discussion question:  shouldn't this group have an AR use case?
> We all agreed this was valuable to express as part of Declarative 3D.
> We can distill our use cases from descriptions available on that site,

none found

> from the recent AR Standards Group meeting, from the new ISO SC24
> working group 9, and from the X3D AR working group.

X3D AR working group:
http://www.web3d.org/realtime-3d/augmented-reality-ar

ISO JTC 1/SC 24
http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_technical_committee?commid=45252
slideset
http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/%5BKim%5DISO_SC24_Status-Slides.pdf

> Anita gave us a summary report of the just-completed AR Standards Group
> 2-day meeting, 15 people attended.  We discussed various standards
> alignment possibilities.

http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/

> 3.  Process suggestion:  declarative 3d community group teleconference
> efforts probably ought to start using tools available to all W3C
> working groups:
> - IRC chat, scribing, and web logging for meeting minutes

Details
http://www.w3.org/Project/IRC/

irc://irc.w3.org:6665/#declarative3d
or
http://irc.w3.org/#declarative3d

> - Action items list and issues list
> 
> 4.  Discussed agenda for Wednesday afternoon breakout session.  Reviewed
> and discussed the Declarative 3D Community Group slideset in complete
> detail.  Kristian and Johannes presented a large and quite-impressive
> series of demos.

http://www.xml3d.org

http://www.x3dom.org

> Considered current issues and past lessons learned
> in other W3C standards.

Recommended reading:  Tim Berners-Lee, _Weaving the Web_
http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/Weaving/Overview.html

> 5.  Vincent provided a short summary of SVG filter effects as a way
> to predictably offer underlying shader capabilities to SVG authors.
> We talked at length about the effects work going on in CSS, he gave
> a demo showing lots of impressive capabilities, and we discussed
> some CSS/shader technical challenges where a 3D approach can help.

http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/filters.html

He also mentioned CSS Regions and CSS Exclusions:
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-regions
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-exclusions

> 6.  Neil discussed rationale for a 3D transmission format.  At some
> point, 3D assets need to go across the network and it might be a
> valuable addition to ecosystem to have a format for 3D analagous
> to JPEG for imagery, MP3 for audio, H264/MPEG4 for video, etc.
> Alternative is that browsers have to do decoding in javascript
> or content doesn't work.  Seems like an obvious hole.  Could do
> an inventory of available work, discuss possibilities with MPEG etc.
> Progressive streaming and compression would be primary benefits.
> 
> Interesting discussion (once again).

A future teleconference will be setup to discuss further
for those who are interested.

> ======================================
> Here are things we didn't discuss yet.
> 
> 7.  Requests for W3C
> - (Need to confirm) community group support for IRC chat, trackers

confirmed available, links above

> - Occasional team review, feedback regarding goals and activities
> 
> 8.  Areas where declarative 3D is very different from other media,
> languages and web standards.  Rationale: establishing W3C Recommendation
> for Declarative 3D should add new capabilities to the Web.  Undesired
> alternative:  W3C members unconvinced that new work adds value.
> 
> - User-driven navigation in and around 3D models
> - User-driven interaction:  selection, picking, collision detection
> - Reuse and composition of individual 3D models into larger worlds
> - Full integration of 3D models with HTML5 content by Web authors,
> 	allowing 2-way exchange of events via DOM
> - Augmented Reality (AR) with user control of 3D display space,
> 	not simply 2D overlays on top of video feed
> - Embeddable physics
> -
> -
> - no doubt several others...
> 
> 
> 9.  We need to characterize shared relationships (+) and distinguishing
> differences (-) between Declarative 3D goals and other W3C technologies.
> 
> + integratable with HTML, as external or embedded page object
> - different than SVG, native 3D representations essential, though many
> 	lessons of SVG design are relevant
> - different than canvas: not low-level shader programming
> + DOM representation central to capture 3D scene graph.  Holding data
> 	structures in real time is now satisfactory with high-performance
> 	DOM implementations.
> + DOM event model is dissimilar to typical event-passing paradigm of
> 	most 3D scene graphs, but can be aligned
> + HTML5 interaction model needs to be utilized, e.g. HTML DOM level 2
> 	mouse events
> + Significant level of CSS capabilities can be utilized, possibly
> 	align HTML colors with 3D materials
> - Need consistent accessibility so that navigation and usability is
> 	intuitive/predictable (rather than "lost is space")
> 
> Additional potential relationships with W3C Recommendations:
> + Most base types supported in XML Schema - add n-tuple arrays?
> ? Multimedia synchronization - other requirements beyond HTML5?
> ? XPath and XSLT support needed, possible?
> ? MathML support for equations?
> ? SVG, movie, canvas support for creating embedded texture images?
> 
> One way to get completely confounded would be if we cherry-picked
> pieces and parts of W3C Recommendations.  Instead we should accept
> specific requirements and interoperability to align Declarative 3D
> compatibly with Open Web Platform.

http://www.w3.org/wiki/Open_Web_Platform

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Web_Platform

> 10.  Use cases and requirements.  Needs work.  What's the plan?

http://www.w3.org/community/declarative3d/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
http://www.w3.org/community/declarative3d/wiki/Requirement_Building_Blocks

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman@nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman

Received on Tuesday, 1 November 2011 23:01:15 UTC