- From: Dimitris Kontokostas <kontokostas@informatik.uni-leipzig.de>
- Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 21:58:34 +0100
- To: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
- Cc: public-data-shapes-wg <public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+u4+a0iborXS+dacKtjkccuHTnz9Lfga_uYEfE-8C9cEb4zYg@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 5:40 PM, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote: > Thanks, Dimitris. But once again I think this uses too many terms that are > unclear, and could be simplified. Let's go through this: > > "The property scope for a property p is defined as the set of subjects > that appear in a triple with p as a predicate." > > --It is unclear to me what graphs are being talked about here. A scope is > defined in the shapes graph but it references the data graph -- in other > words, the scope criteria must be found in the data graph. Some set of > triples in the data graph a "in scope." So the "set of subjects" is in the > data graph, right? What is being called "property scope" here is a node in > the shapes graph. I would say that the shapes graph defines a target node > (for lack of a better word) in the data graph based on the existence of a > named predicate. > > "Property scopes can be set by linking a shape to a resource r of type > sh:PropertyScope with the sh:scope property." > > --A scope is defined in the shapes graph as a property scope by explicit > declaration of rdf:type sh:PropertyScope (as per the example, below). "can > be" means "maybe", and this is definitive -- it *is* defined in this way > and only this way. I'm not clear on why this says "linking a shape to a > resource... with the sh:scope property". That seems unnecessary to me. In > fact, I have trouble in general with referring to "linking" - a term that > is not used in the RDF documentation (except briefly around de-referencing > vocabularies). A shape *has* a scope and a scope *is an instance of* > sh:PropertyScope. > > ex:PropertyScopeExampleShape > a sh:Shape ; > sh:scope [ > a sh:PropertyScope ; > sh:predicate ex:knows ; > ] . > > > "The property p is linked from r with the property sh:predicate." > > Again, I think this is unnecessary. > > So after all of this, I would suggest something along the lines of: > Thanks Karen > A property scope is a scope in the shapes graph that is of rdf:type > sh:PropertyScope. I find this sentence a bit unclear unless you read it in combination with the introduction of 2.1.3 The object of sh:predicate defines the triples in the data shape that are > in scope. Triples in the data graph with a predicate matching the object of > sh:predicate are in scope. > I made another attempt to incorporate your feedback but with a little more prose, can you check that as well? Otherwise we can switch back to your proposal https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/commit/d91acf343fd485d99dc69293ddecbd07a771d6c1 (also online) Thanks, Dimitris > > (That could undoubtedly be refined.) > kc > > On 5/3/16 7:22 AM, Dimitris Kontokostas wrote: > >> Hi Karen, >> >> I tried to reformulate 2.1.3.1 Property scopes (sh:PropertyScope) >> Can you check if this makes it more clear? if it does I will adjust the >> rest of the sections accordingly >> >> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/commit/d2d70f5caa72f7911567d7692b58741fe7481625 >> (the edit is also live) >> >> Dimitris >> >> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net >> <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 5/1/16 6:49 PM, Holger Knublauch wrote: >> >> Hi Karen, >> >> yes these are good points. The use of "scope class" here is >> confusing, >> also due to the overlap with the unrelated sh:scopeClass >> property. The >> proper term for them would be "scope type", which is also used in >> section 8.2 >> >> Please review my edits: >> >> >> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/commit/4f74748b0637eeb5406abfce2797335baad6e33a >> >> >> On 1/05/2016 10:27, RDF Data Shapes Working Group Issue Tracker >> wrote: >> >> shapes-ISSUE-159: [Editorial] Eliminate "scope class" from >> 2.1.n >> [SHACL Spec] >> >> http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/159 >> >> Raised by: Karen Coyle >> On product: SHACL Spec >> >> I would like to clarify 2.1.3 and its subsections by >> eliminating the >> phrase "scope class". The current description in the >> introduction is: >> >> 2.1.3 (sentence 3) >> "SHACL includes four built-in scope classes: >> sh:PropertyScope... etc." >> >> The pattern for each subsections reads: >> >> 2.1.3.1 Property scopes (sh:propertyScope) >> "The scope class sh:PropertyScope selects all subjects that >> have at >> least one value for a given property sh:predicate." >> >> I would suggest that we replace sentence 3 in 2.1.3 with: >> "SHACL includes four subclasses of sh:Scope that define the >> core scope >> types:...." >> >> And the pattern first statement for the subsections would be: >> >> "The class sh:PropertyScope is the class of those subjects >> that have >> at least one value for a given property sh:predicate." >> >> >> In the latter case I diverged a bit from your suggestion to the >> pattern >> "represents the class of scopes of XY". I prefer this because a >> scope >> does not represent a class of subjects - the term class is already >> overloaded with different meaning IMHO. Scopes "represent" sets >> of nodes >> in my opinion. >> >> >> For the latter statement you have: >> >> "The scope type <code>sh:PropertyScope</code> represents the class >> of scopes of all subjects that have at least one value for a given >> property <code>sh:predicate</code>." >> >> This introduces a new concept "scope type" which isn't defined, and >> includes "class of scopes" which is a grammatical rewording of >> "scope class". Also, The sentence is too dense to be readable. Let's >> first talk about what we want it to mean, then we can develop wording. >> >> -First is sh:PropertyScope a class? I believe that is the case. To >> what extent that matters here is another matter. >> >> -Next, what is the "thing" (in the RDF sense) that is a member of >> that class? First, "class of scopes" is as vague as our original >> "scope class". What is the thing, and in which graph (shapes graph >> or data graph) is that thing to be found? >> >> -What is meant here by "subject"? I believe that this refers to a >> node in the data graph. Is that the case? >> >> -Finally, in editorial mode, "represents" should be "is". If there >> is a type "sh:PropertyScope" it *is* a class. >> >> If I understand correctly, the shapes graph can have a subject (aka >> "node") that is defined as being of rdfs:type sh:PropertyScope. That >> subject has a predicate "sh:predicate" whose value is the predicate >> in the data graph that is the target of the validation rules that >> are linked to this shapes graph node. >> >> Or, to put this in simple English, the shapes graph states (or >> "indicates") the predicate in the data graph that is the target of >> validation. >> >> kc >> >> >> >> Are these edits addressing your issue? >> >> Thanks >> Holger >> >> >> >> Reasons: this eliminates the vague phrase "scope class", and >> also does >> not ascribe agency to the subclasses (subclasses do not >> SELECT). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Karen Coyle >> kcoyle@kcoyle.net <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net> http://kcoyle.net >> m: 1-510-435-8234 >> skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600 <tel:%2B1-510-984-3600> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dimitris Kontokostas >> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig & DBpedia >> Association >> Projects: http://dbpedia.org, http://rdfunit.aksw.org, >> http://http://aligned-project.eu <http://aligned-project.eu/> >> Homepage:http://aksw.org/DimitrisKontokostas >> Research Group: AKSW/KILT http://aksw.org/Groups/KILT >> >> > -- > Karen Coyle > kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net > m: 1-510-435-8234 > skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600 > > -- Dimitris Kontokostas Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig & DBpedia Association Projects: http://dbpedia.org, http://rdfunit.aksw.org, http:// http://aligned-project.eu Homepage:http://aksw.org/DimitrisKontokostas Research Group: AKSW/KILT http://aksw.org/Groups/KILT
Received on Tuesday, 3 May 2016 20:59:30 UTC