- From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
- Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:06:01 -0800
- To: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
- CC: public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org, Arthur Ryman <ryman@ca.ibm.com>
Thanks, Eric. The visualization really helps. I can now see that what holds these two together is in the "proxy" statements, and that I wasn't noticing the subtle differences in the URIs. (Also, I do wish that the ORE proxy were a bit more amply defined. [1]) I'm not sure what makes a package a package in Arthur's case. Arthur? kc [1] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/datamodel.html#Proxies On 12/23/14 9:35 AM, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote: > * Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> [2014-12-20 08:22-0800] >> >> >> On 12/19/14 8:11 PM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote: >>> The narrative for S35 says "There is no path from the >>> acc:AccessContextList node to either of the acc:AccessContext nodes. >>> There is an implicit containment relation of acc:AccessContext nodes in >>> the acc:AccessContextList by virtue of these nodes being in the same >>> information resource." This implicit connection is not part of RDF. >> >> An example would really help here. I have what may be a similar >> example from the Europeana data. I'm not sure if this mailing list >> takes attachments, so the (short) example is here: >> >> http://kcoyle.net/temp/edmtest.ttl >> >> I cut the data down from something with dozens of related files and >> subject headings, but I think I kept the structure intact. The main >> nodes of the model are edm:ProvidedCHO and ore:Aggregation. The data >> is natively in RDF/XML but I have trouble reading that so I >> converted it to TTL. >> >> Q: Is this an example of what is being discussed here? > > Running this through dot (attached), it seems like this includes a > couple bibliographic resources (uh oh, "resources"!) which proxy for a > third. This seems to be a well-connected graph. Arthur's example is of > data which has no connections apart from some implied by being in the > same package. > > <X> a <Foo> . > <Y> a <Foo> . > <Z> a <FooList> . > > The presence of something of type FooList appears to trigger some > special processing which kicks off a search for <Foo>s (and possibly > whines if there aren't any). Arthur, is that right? > > I'm not confident this is a good idea, but to try it out, I mocked up > a notion of a conomitant shape: > > [[ > start= { > a (oslc:AccessContextList), > CONCOMITANT @<ContextShape>+ > } > > <ContextShape> { > a (oslc:AccessContext), > dc:description xsd:string, > dc:title xsd:string > } > ]] > with a questionable RDF representation: > [[ > rs:property [ > rs:name "???" ; > se:concomitantShape true ; > rs:valueShape <ContextShape> ; > rs:occurs rs:One-or-many ; > ] ; > ]] > > http://w3.org/brief/NDI4 > > >> Thanks, >> kc >> >> >>> >>> >>> peter >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/2014 06:01 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: >>>> DC has at least one similar case, in use today. Can you, however, say >>>> what you >>>> mean by "some characteristic of two nodes"? What "characteristics" >>>> would put >>>> them out of scope? >>>> >>>> kc >>>> >>>> On 12/19/14 4:12 PM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote: >>>>> If the only connection is that they are in the same graph, then it might >>>>> be in scope. However, if there is some indication that the connection >>>>> is somehow special because of the some characteristic of two nodes that >>>>> are both in a particular graph, then I would say that this is out of >>>>> scope. >>>>> >>>>> It appears to me that the latter is the case. >>>>> >>>>> peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/19/2014 12:42 PM, Arthur Ryman wrote: >>>>>> "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com> wrote on 12/19/2014 >>>>>> 02:40:44 PM: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com> >>>>>>> To: Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org >>>>>>> Date: 12/19/2014 02:41 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: shapes as classes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> S35 talks about an implicit connection between acc:AcccessContext >>>>>>> nodes >>>>>> and >>>>>>> acc:AccessContextList nodes. This implicit connection appears to >>>>>>> me to >>>>>> be >>>>>>> outside the scope of RDF. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> peter >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter, >>>>>> I think this implicit connection is in scope because the concept of an >>>>>> RDF >>>>>> graph is within the scope of RDF. The implicit connection between the >>>>>> nodes is a consequence of them being in the same RDF graph. A shape >>>>>> language should let me describe a constraint such as "The graph must >>>>>> have >>>>>> exactly one node of type acc:AccessContextList, and zero or nodes of >>>>>> type >>>>>> acc:AccessContext." >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Arthur >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Karen Coyle >> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net >> m: 1-510-435-8234 >> skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600 >> > -- Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
Received on Tuesday, 23 December 2014 19:06:31 UTC