- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 13:28:27 +0100
- To: "Tandy, Jeremy" <jeremy.tandy@metoffice.gov.uk>
- Cc: Eric Stephan <ericphb@gmail.com>, W3C CSV on the Web Working Group <public-csv-wg@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <F567D960-8CAB-440A-A10A-A009B4B2EC9B@w3.org>
On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:54 , Tandy, Jeremy <jeremy.tandy@metoffice.gov.uk> wrote: > OK - now you're talking :-) > > At the Met Office (& many of the organisations we collaborate with), NetCDF is in common usage. > > I had thought that you wanted to get into working directly with the binary ... in which case I was going to say NetCDF3, NetCDF4-Classic or NetCDF-Extended :-) ... I think I know too much (at least in this corner of the data-sphere). > > For what it's worth, our files get pretty large (I suspect yours do too!), so I don't see much use of ncdump to generate a text format. Instead, we encourage people to work directly with the binary format using appropriate tools like Iris <http://scitools.org.uk/iris/> that layer on top of the netCDF libraries to work with data conforming to the CF (Climate and Forecast) metadata conventions <http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/>. > > On the mailing list <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2014Feb/0157.html>, danbri talked about "interesting and useful work that can be done for _all_ tables, at a broad brush level of granularity" without getting stuck into the innards of the file. Just having access to this summary and/or structural metadata would help discovery. > > So I think the use case could follow these lines: > > - big scientific tabular dataset published in netCDF > - publish summary and structural metadata about the "tabular data" for LOD discovery purposes > - download manageable subsets of the tabular dataset in tabular-text format - perhaps paginated? I like that. We should be careful, then, to formulate the metadata in a form that does not rely on textual data. But that should not be a major problem... Ivan > > This is not dissimilar to use case #7 <https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Use_Cases#A_local_archive_of_metadata_for_a_collection_of_journal_articles> in which a tabular result set is described but presented in manageable "pages" to the user one CSV file at a time. > > As for #7 we need to be wary of getting into PROTOCOL DESIGN for accessing subsets of data ... or at least do so with our eyes open! > > What do think Eric ... could you turn this into a narrative-style use case? > > Jeremy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Stephan [mailto:ericphb@gmail.com] > Sent: 26 February 2014 10:25 > To: Stasinos Konstantopoulos > Cc: Ivan Herman; Tandy, Jeremy; W3C CSV on the Web Working Group > Subject: Re: use case: NetCDF data > > Sorry trying to keep the gates of hell open a bit still. :-) I think > I'm on board. > > Instead of "tabular text files", I'd prefer to view the constraint as "tabular text data" > >> From a LOD perspective a given NetCDF resource could be accessible: > * in its native format > * expressed in its text form through the ncdump utility. > > The Native NetCDF form provides the scientific community self describing data. > The text form could be used to within the CSVW context as a means for Star 4 and Star 5 discovery. > > There are lots of scientific binary formats out there that represent n-dimensional data blocks but each usually provide a means to dump in a textual form or be expressed in an alternative format that can be loaded into a spreadsheet for analysis. > > Its somewhat of a similar concept as thinking of a relational database table or triple store dumped in a tabular form. > > Sound okay? > > Eric > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Stasinos Konstantopoulos <konstant@iit.demokritos.gr> wrote: >> On 26 February 2014 10:40, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote: >>> >>> On 25 Feb 2014, at 23:18 , Tandy, Jeremy <jeremy.tandy@metoffice.gov.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Stasinos ... thanks for the use cases you've provided so far. >>>> >>>> Looking at your NetCDF data use case, I wonder if non-textual tabular data is in scope. The discussion on the "Scoping Question" thread in the mailing list seemed to suggest that we would focus on textual tabular data. >>>> >>>> Before progressing, I wanted to get your thoughts and gather input from the other WG participants. >>> >>> Well... I did not know NetCDF before, so I peeked around a bit. I may have missed some details, but the impression is that this is, primarily, a set of utilities in various programming languages to handle tabular data that is in some internal format. They do have some ways of dumping data in terms of text: >>> >>> http://www.narccap.ucar.edu/data/ascii-howto.html >>> >>> and, as far as I could see some of the examples there the output is 'simply' CSV (well, probably TSV or 'SSV', ie, 'space separated values'). >>> >>> I would support Jeremy's formulation, that we focus on 'textual tabular data'. >> >> That's alright, and it will keep hell's gates slightly less widely >> open. We still have Eric's examples of metadata headers. >> >> NetCDF also forsees a single metadata description covering multiple >> data files, but I believe this to be a more general concern as there >> are many instances of homogeneous CSV data files that can better be >> described at one shot. >> >> Best, >> s >> > ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Digital Publishing Activity Lead Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 GPG: 0x343F1A3D FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf
Received on Wednesday, 26 February 2014 12:29:01 UTC