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Re: [csswg-drafts] For the Accessibility API visibility:visible within visibility:hidden is problematic (#6123)

From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 18:32:34 +0000
To: public-css-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <issue_comment.created-897056370-1628706753-sysbot+gh@w3.org>
The CSS Working Group just discussed `visibility: visible and a11y`, and agreed to the following:

* `RESOLVED: accept proposal`

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;fantasai> Topic: visibility: visible and a11y<br>
&lt;fantasai> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6123<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: some a11y folks brought up that the visibility property is tricky<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: in particular, visibility:hidden on visibility:visible ancestor<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: problem is invisible items gets stripped from a11y tree<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: very similar to 'display:contents' a11y bug<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: our proposal is to specify impact of 'visibility:hidden' as similar to 'display:contents'<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: wrt a11y<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: to do that, pull visibility property definition from CSS2 to css-display-3<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: and add a warning to authors that in special cases (like tables) can cause problems to have invisible ancestor of visible child<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: this proposal got a thumbs up from the original commenter<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: ...<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: unlike table cell example, what if these hidden boxes have text content?<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: do we retain the box but not the text, or what<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: text isn't an issue here, because invisible to everyone<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: it's the implicit structural relationships that shouldn't get lost<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: so text shouldn't be in box tree either, just the box structure<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: yes<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: referring to text inside cell made visible?<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: no, invisible text<br>
&lt;florian> s/in box tree either/in accessibility tree either/<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: so text inside of other cells<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: that, or if div with text in it that's hidden, and span that's visible<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: do we hide all the text outside the span<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: yes, this is expected behavior and implemented<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: is it implementable<br>
&lt;fantasai> fantasai: shouldn't be any problem, text has its own boxes in implementations<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: ...<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: text for role/description can be taken from hidden areas, but that's a known pattern that works<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: current implementations already support display of visible text inside of hidden elements<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: the issue is only when there's structure part of the invisible elements, then want to be able to recreate that<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: Tab, one question I have is<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: the use case here is very specific to when a table has visibility:hidden and cell is visibility:visible<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: is the same behavior here, are we trying to specify same for table which is inside of visibility:hidden?<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: I don't believe the issue is specific to that<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: applies the same if you visibility:hidden a link, and visibility:vissible some contents of the link<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: We don't want that to strip the linkness of the text inside which is still visible<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: ok, didn't want to make it too specific<br>
&lt;fantasai> fantasai: no, going to make it quite general<br>
&lt;fantasai> proposal is https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6123#issuecomment-893890561<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: so expected behavior is to provide the structural role of the invisible ancestors of visible elements in the a11y tree<br>
&lt;fantasai> TabAtkins: yes, same as display:contents<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: anything else?<br>
&lt;fantasai> fantasai: we're pulling visibility propdef from CSS2 to css-display-3 (not defined anywhere else than CSS2 atm)<br>
&lt;fantasai> Rossen_: hearing no objections here<br>
&lt;fantasai> RESOLVED: accept proposal<br>
&lt;fantasai> Meeting closed.<br>
&lt;Rossen_> Zakim, end meeting<br>
&lt;Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been plinss, argyle, jensimmons, GameMaker, emilio, Rossen_, dlibby, smfr, TYLin, sanketj, jfkthame, bradk, dholbert, vmpstr, futhark, tantek<br>
&lt;Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2<br>
&lt;RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/11-css-minutes.html Zakim<br>
&lt;Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Rossen_; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye<br>
&lt;iank_> TabAtkins: I can VC today - but out the next two days.<br>

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