W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-css-archive@w3.org > March 2020

Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-mediaqueries] Proposal: "prefers-reduced-data" (#2370)

From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 00:23:53 +0000
To: public-css-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <issue_comment.created-594960678-1583367832-sysbot+gh@w3.org>
The CSS Working Group just discussed `[mediaqueries-5] Adding prefers-reduced-data as part of MQ5 FPWD`, and agreed to the following:

* `RESOLVED: Add three issues to the ED`

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;dael> Topic: [mediaqueries-5] Adding prefers-reduced-data as part of MQ5 FPWD<br>
&lt;dael> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2370<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Inspired by JS having similar things. Access to information about users like data saver on your phone wher eyou can say at a high level you want ot lose less data. Can reduce background activities. In JS we can be aware of this just like we can reduce motion.<br>
&lt;smfr> q+<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: If they're in 2G or paying for data or something like that. Proposal is a flag in CSS so we can make adjustments. Proposal JS is granual but CSS just needs on or off. Do they want to reduce or carry on undefined<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Good intro?<br>
&lt;astearns> ack fantasai<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Sure<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Good idea to have a MQ for this. Concern there is different levels of less data. One is I'm on a slow connection, another is I'm paying small data and want reduced functionality. I'm wondering if need a couple of levels. Reduce data and another to comprimise functionality<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/functionality/functionality if needed/<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Good question. Reminds me of li-fi which is where it says you have wifi but you don't. Frustrating for user b/c what do you do. People can use things like service worker for that. CSS I'm not sure if we need more. I like we're mimicaing the system binary<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Most questionable part of MQ is around how hard is it to use. Examples people put is I have a big BG image and people want to do a color but then browser has already loaded your image. Lot of potenial to not work. CSS b/c how it loads there's potential to not get wha tyou want.<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Need to have a say where it goes. Maybe needs to be in head. MQ often bottom of file<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: I suspect we don't need more levels right now because I don't see it being likely you have much you can do besides if it's not in data saver I load and if it's in mode I load colors. There's not much useful in CSS we can do. I suspect we just need the two. Load or don't load images<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Fonts as well. You can load expensive custom fonts. Put behind the MQ and only load if they don't have preference<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: Yeah. Yeah. Fonts and images. There isn't a middle ground. Either load or not<br>
&lt;astearns> ack smfr<br>
&lt;bkardell_> idk, I do both TabAtkins<br>
&lt;dael> smfr: Apple main concern is this is more fingerprinting. It's biased fingerprinting toward low income with limited data. We're concerned this could be a targetting vector.<br>
&lt;dael> smfr: iOS does have a settings switch but adds more fingerprinting where it remembers you flipped this switch on certain wifi. That's a worry.<br>
&lt;dael> smfr: Would like to see security and privacy section added to the spec<br>
&lt;dael> smfr: Not objecting but we do have concerns. Discussing if we would impl<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: Are you impl the header?<br>
&lt;dael> smfr: I think answer is no<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: Okay. You're not doing client hints that's acceptable problem<br>
&lt;astearns> ack fantasai<br>
&lt;Zakim> fantasai, you wanted to point out that media queries are not just CSS<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: MQ aren't just CSS. Can also be accessed in JS and HTML attributes to load files. Not jsut about CSS but also controls if you load a JS library.<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Also these days not about if it's a BG image people are loading lots of videos for decoration and that's data that's not needed. Can replace that with an image. But if you're even more resource constrained you'd want an image<br>
&lt;chris> s/li-fi/lie-fi/<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/an image/no image/<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: If we dn't have multiple levels now we should design so that we can expand later. I think there is multiple levels here and it's not just about CSS<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Good examples. I like them<br>
&lt;dino> I'm not sure if the type of person who would load a huge video as a background image would also provide a fallback that is a solid colour :)<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Hearing we need security and privacy section. Second is we should have separate issue about needing more then a binary state<br>
&lt;fantasai> dino, I can see AirBnB doing that, frex. They get pulled down over roaming connections a lot.<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: One bit of background. THis is on agenda b/c intent to prototype in Chrome<br>
&lt;dael> smfr: Would have liked to see discussion in WG before PR merged<br>
&lt;fantasai> +1 to smfr, adding features should get WG resolution<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: I think there was some but I agree there could have been more.<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Looking through issue and not seeing discussion before merge, just comments on the issue<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: Remove it from draft or add annotation on issues or don't leave indication that there's an issue in the draft<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: I don't think we should remove given client hints serves the same data. Exposing to CSS is user friendliness. Precise design open issues on that. So long as client hints is going through I think we should have this in MQ as well<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: We should annotate the issues a bit in the draft<br>
&lt;dael> TabAtkins: Yeah<br>
&lt;dael> smfr: Are client hints more than one impl? THe comparision isn't valid if blink is only browser that impl client hints<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Anyone know the status in gecko?<br>
&lt;dael> ??: I believe we impl that<br>
&lt;dholbert> s/??/heycam/<br>
&lt;heycam> s/I believe/I don't believe/<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Three issues. Security and privacy section. Add issue for more than binary. Add this is still under discussion and maybe not ready to ship<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: accurate?<br>
&lt;dael> Adam: Yes to me<br>
&lt;dael> chris: Question. Agenda item talks about if this should be in FPWD. That was published yesterday so whatever we decide will impact the ED. I think it was published with this included. I jsut took the ED and went forward<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Yes, that's what you should have done. We can take it out if need be<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Enough for now? Add the three issues to the draft and add them as separate GH issues<br>
&lt;dael> astearns: Prop: Add three issues to ED<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> Even in the "video vs img vs color" scenario, I don't think there's a particularly useful line to draw there. Basically, I don't think there's a particularly useful "I have plenty of data, but I'm not the *sultan*" line to use, at least in CSS. JS can do more complicated stuff, but I think in such a scenario you should downgrade all the way to a gradient or a very small image, if people are requesting reduced data at all.<br>
&lt;dael> RESOLVED: Add three issues to the ED<br>
</details>


-- 
GitHub Notification of comment by css-meeting-bot
Please view or discuss this issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2370#issuecomment-594960678 using your GitHub account
Received on Thursday, 5 March 2020 00:23:56 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Tuesday, 5 July 2022 06:42:02 UTC