Re: [csswg-drafts] Let’s Define CSS 4 (#4770)

Very interesting discussion. I'm torn between opinions. On one hand, if it helps, why not? 

Yet I'm not convinced that it will help. The main basis for this idea seems to be the success story of the marketing terms HTML5 and CSS3. Which are undeniable. But that doesn't mean it is repeatable. Those version bumps had incredible tangible value due to a unique moment in the web's history:

The web had huge compat issues. CSS2 to 3 finally meant saying goodbye to a myriad of layout hacks and browser bugs, and opened up responsive design. HTML5 solved tons of parsing/error conditions across browsers. We measured browsers using standardized ACID tests. The web moved in terms of months or years, not weeks. HTML5 as a term got further launched into the stratosphere by Apple effectively killing Adobe Flash, HTML5 being the alternative.

In other words, these version bumps had a dramatic impact due to underlying conditions that are unique, not because we did a +1 on the version number.

These historic conditions no longer apply. We're used to a modular, fast-moving web where browsers auto-update. There is no standardized major version test to measure against, nor do browsers implement based on such grouping of modules. Hence, developers think feature-based, not module or version-based. They use caniuse.com to check what works.

This doesn't mean a marketing version has no positive effect, I'm just saying the dramatic effect it had for CSS3/HTML5 is not repeatable, and therefore we should not assume such large success. 

I remain open the idea, because any positive effect is a gain. However, I must agree with several others that major marketing versions only have meaning in a compat situation. If we announce that CSS5 is finally here, it must mean all major browsers have full or near-full support. 

Without this compat condition met, I think some developers will be cynical, and return to feature or module based thinking, the current status quo.

Despite some of my skepticism, I want to express that in recent years, CSS has been extended with truly revolutionary features. Just grids alone is something people 5 years from now will still be exploring and learning, and 10 years from now, people will invent new layouts based on what this foundational technology makes possible. It's that extensive and powerful. 

I very much agree that these incredible advancements have not gotten the praise, appreciation and awe that they deserve. More important, the techniques themselves are underutilized. 

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Received on Wednesday, 26 February 2020 21:54:50 UTC