Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-ui-4] Change the pointer cursor to indicate any interactive element.

The Working Group just discussed `Pointer cursor over interactive elements`, and agreed to the following:

* `RESOLVED: Add often-rendered-as sentence to pointer definition`

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;fantasai> Topic: Pointer cursor over interactive elements<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Almost editorial, but maybe not<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: We describe cursors that can be chosen with the 'cursor' property<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Didn't require any particular iconography<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: So we describe them in terms of what they are used for<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: e.g. “This is the thing you see when you point at links”<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: It's descriptive, but also normative.<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Peoplementioned that even though that used to be a reasonable statement<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: But now lots of authors use that cursor not only on links, but all clickable things<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: If you say “The thing you only see on links”, ppl get confused<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Don't you mean “The thing you see on clickable things”?<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: So we could change the description<br>
&lt;dbaron> "The cursor that is generally used to indicate links or other clickable things." ?<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: But then that looks like it suggests a change to the UA style sheet<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: It doesn't seem like anyone is suggesting to change the default behavior<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: We can either update the description, have it not match the UA style sheet<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Or make the description match the UA stylesheet, but not common practice<br>
&lt;fantasai> smfr: ... authoring conventions<br>
&lt;astearns> amelia's suggestion: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1936#issuecomment-341987070<br>
&lt;fantasai> smfr: On MacOS we definitely don't show the hand on clickable things in general<br>
&lt;fantasai> smfr: If we knew what OSes do, that' be helpful<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: It seems like on native UIs, it's not the cursor used on clickable things<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: but on Web pages it is<br>
&lt;fantasai> smfr: So I would suggest we don't make a change<br>
&lt;fantasai> smfr: I don't think we should impose on users a difference between the Web view and things outside it<br>
&lt;fantasai> smfr: I think it wanted to indicate something like navigating away...<br>
&lt;fantasai> ...<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Fair amount of agreement on the thread<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: The question isn't whether we should encourage pointer on buttons<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: But how to describe pointer<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: are we prescriptive or descriptive?<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: If we're prescriptive, then agreed with you<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: I don't have a strong opinion, fwiw. Just reporting the disagreement<br>
&lt;fantasai> astearns: Not clear to me whether current spec is prescriptive or descriptive<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: kinda both. Used to be consistent between the two, not so much now<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: We could maybe have descriptive and prescriptive bits<br>
&lt;fantasai> ?: I would be OK with that<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: “Typically rendered as”<br>
&lt;fantasai> astearns: If we were going to start over... but I don't think we need to change.<br>
&lt;tantek> indeed<br>
&lt;fantasai> astearns: If there's nothing testable that we're making the change for, no need for a change<br>
&lt;fantasai> smfr: Ask browser vendors ... UA stylesheet ... buttons<br>
&lt;tantek> so informative?<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Proposed resolution is don't change the sentence, add a clarifying rendered-as sentence<br>
&lt;fantasai> astearns: why?<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Most values have such a sentence, and since there seems to be some confusion, having a bit more visually descriptive sentence could be useful<br>
&lt;fantasai> I initially thought 'ponter' was just the arrow.<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/ponter/pointer/<br>
&lt;bradk> Cursor: finger<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: pointer is closed hand pointing<br>
&lt;fantasai> astearns: hearing no objections<br>
&lt;fantasai> proposed resolution: Add sentence describing what 'pointer' looks like.<br>
&lt;fantasai> tantek: are we adding screenshots?<br>
&lt;fantasai> astearns: Doesn't seem necessary<br>
&lt;fantasai> florian: Also the spec itself is interactive, you get the value as you hover over it<br>
&lt;fantasai> RESOLVED: Add often-rendered-as sentence to pointer definition<br>
&lt;fantasai> Florian, maybe extend the 'cursor' onto the &lt;dd>s as well?<br>
&lt;fantasai> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1936#issuecomment-341987070<br>
</details>


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Received on Wednesday, 9 May 2018 17:04:34 UTC