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Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-overflow] Add mechanism for disabling scrollbars

From: Tab Atkins Jr. via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2016 15:18:43 +0000
To: public-css-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <issue_comment.created-252280587-1475853521-sysbot+gh@w3.org>
When you get down to primitives, plenty of things aren't convenient 
anymore; you often have to reinvent bits that you've lost along the 
way.  The reason I'm arguing that this isn't a "primitive" is because 
it gets rid of *some* of the methods for users to scroll the box, but 
not all of them.  It's halfway down the stack.

But arguing over which is more primitive isn't a fruitful exercise; if
 we can agree, great, but if we can't, belaboring the point doesn't 
get us anywhere (we're just slicing things differently).  I'm still 
stuck on the fundamental usability issue I raised earlier - when you 
remove scrollbars, how are people supposed to scroll on devices 
without panning functionality? This is why I've been pushing back 
against this - it looks *very* easy for this to be very user-hostile 
when naively used on "mobile-first" designs without being 
usability-tested on desktops (particularly ones without a mousewheel, 
which at least allows vertical "panning").

`hidden` at least has the benefit that *no one* can scroll it without 
scripting or navigation, so it's more obviously necessary to provide 
user affordances, and those manually-added affordances are more likely
 to be tested, leading to people being more likely to remember how 
desktops work.

Thus my earlier suggestion of having the value only hide scrollbars on
 devices where the UA knows that panning is a primary scrolling 
mechanism - phones and tablets, maybe *some* touch-focused laptops. 
Then maybe we can also have a less-conveniently-named value that 
actually turns off scrollbars all the time, which makes it clearer 
what the author's responsibilities are.

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Received on Friday, 7 October 2016 15:18:49 UTC

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