[MINUTES] CCG Atlantic Weekly 2025-12-09

CCG Atlantic Weekly - 2025/12/09 11:58 EST - Summary *Attendees*

Alex Higuera, Benjamin Young, Denken Chen, Elaine Wooton, Erica Connell,
Harrison Tang, Ivan Dzheferov, JeffO - HumanOS, Jennie Meier, Kaliya
Identity Woman, Kayode Ezike, Manu Sporny, Otto Mora, Parth Bhatt, Phillip
Long, Ted Thibodeau Jr
*Topics Covered*

   - Chair Nominations
   - Q4 State of the CCG - Work Item Status Updates
      - Render Method
      - Confidence Method
      - Verifiable Credential API for Life Cycle Management (VCOM)
      - Verifiable Credential Barcodes
      - Verifiable Credentials Over Wireless
      - Verifiable Credential Refresh
      - Verifiable Issuers and Verifiers
      - Data Integrity 20 (Incubation)
      - Test Suites
      - CCG Test Suites
      - VCEDU
      - DID Link Resources
   - Future of the CCG

*Key Points*

   - *Chair Nominations:* Harrison Tang is stepping down as chair. Denken
   Chen has nominated himself for a chair position and presented his goals,
   which include strengthening the CCG's presence in the APAC region.
   - *Q4 Work Item Updates:*
      - *Render Method:* Moved to the VCWG, focuses on enabling issuers to
      provide instructions on how to render a credential.
      - *Confidence Method:* In scope for the VCWG, discussions are ongoing
      regarding the inclusion of portrait images for privacy considerations and
      how to incorporate confidence levels based on trust frameworks.
The use of
      the "evidence" field in VCs is being discussed as a potential place for
      this.
      - *Verifiable Credential API for Life Cycle Management (VCOM):*
      Well-incubated and expected to be a high priority in the new VCWG
      recharter. It specifies HTTP APIs for presenting, verifying, and managing
      credential status. Discussions include mechanisms for wallets to sign
      credentials and callback mechanisms.
         - *VCOM vs. Digital Credentials API (DC API):* VCOM is a protocol
         that the DC API can use. DC API is a higher-level browser API
for invoking
         credential flows, while VCOM is a lower-level credential
exchange API. DC
         API does not cover life cycle management.
         - *Chappie:* The spiritual successor to Chappie (Credential
         Handler API) is the DC API. Chappie was an early attempt to move
         credentials between browsers and wallets.
      - *Verifiable Credential Barcodes:* A standard is needed as this is
      being deployed in production, notably on California driver's
licenses. The
      VCWG has agreed to include this in the next recharter.
      - *Verifiable Credentials Over Wireless:* Focuses on offline use
      cases, particularly for first responders. While NFC implementation is
      progressing, Bluetooth support is lower. The need for offline
connectivity
      is decreasing with advancements like satellite internet on mobile phones,
      but there are still use cases for IoT devices. This is a lower priority
      item in the new recharter.
         - *NFC Implementation:* Does not use DIDComm and transmits raw
         VCs. The specification could work on adding
challenge-response over NFC.
      - *Verifiable Credential Refresh:* In production with implementations
      like True Age and the California DMV app. It's useful for short-lived
      credentials or at scale, but with the availability of bitstring status
      lists and revocation, longer credential lifetimes are becoming
more common.
      - *Verifiable Issuers and Verifiers:* Addresses how to trust that an
      issuer was authorized to issue a credential. Work is ongoing on
simplifying
      the data model and clarifying terminology. This is in the new recharter
      with a higher priority.
      - *Data Integrity 20 (Incubation):* Progress is slow due to reliance
      on BBS work within the IETF cryptoform research group. There are also
      concerns about the scalability and management overhead of LeHero and
      Longfellow (EU ZK initiatives). Post-quantum scheme work is ongoing.
      - *Test Suites:* VCWG specifications test suites are stable and
      available, running weekly. Integrating with them is recommended for
      implementers and for public health checks on sites like canivc.com.
      Work is also ongoing on a DID Resolution test suite within the DIWG.
      - *VCEDU:* Activity has been low due to holidays, but there are plans
      for significant movement in 2026.
      - *DID Link Resources:* No update available as no representative was
      present.
   - *Future of the CCG:* Many incubated work items are graduating to the
   standards track, leading to a reduction in the CCG's active work items. The
   group is actively seeking new work and ways to help with adoption in the
   DID and digital wallet space.

Text:
https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-ccg-atlantic-weekly-2025-12-09.md

Video:
https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-ccg-atlantic-weekly-2025-12-09.mp4
*CCG Atlantic Weekly - 2025/12/09 11:58 EST - Transcript* *Attendees*

Alex Higuera, Benjamin Young, Denken Chen, Elaine Wooton, Erica Connell,
Harrison Tang, Ivan Dzheferov, JeffO - HumanOS, Jennie Meier, Kaliya
Identity Woman, Kayode Ezike, Manu Sporny, Otto Mora, Parth Bhatt, Phillip
Long, Ted Thibodeau Jr
*Transcript*

Harrison Tang: Hi, sorry I caught my microphone to work. if everyone can
hear me. I'm sorry. I am Harrison's assistant, Vanessa, and I joined the
call as well. But, today was supposed to be a Q4 update and then we were
also going to have anyone who has nominated themselves as the chair because
chair elections are happening to speak at today's meeting. So, I don't know
if we want to push it back a week or if the people still want to speak
today.

Manu Sporny: Hey, this is Manu. I know that the schedule is booked weeks in
advance, so pushing it back a week probably wouldn't work because we'd
probably shift the entire meeting schedule. so we could kind of go forward.
I think I can give an update for a lot of the other items. I know Denin is
here so unless there are objections maybe and unless somebody else wants to
run the meeting, I can just run the meeting and take us through the agenda
items. Would there be any objections to that? All right, getting thumbs
ups. No objections. all right. I will go ahead and do that then.

Manu Sporny: give me a second to find the presentation deck for today. but
while I do that some introductions welcome to the weekly credentials
community group meeting. this is the Atlantic friendly time. reminder to
everyone that we operate under the W3C code of conduct. and that basically
just says kind to each other be accepting of other people's viewpoints and
engage in debate in a friendly manner. so we operate under those things. we
have not had issues with any of that recently. So that's been great.
00:05:00

Manu Sporny: on the agenda for the CCG today we are doing chair
nominations. So giving the new chairs that might be running time to
self-nominate or have other people nominate and then giving a little bit of
time for them to introduce themselves. so we'll start the meeting off with
that and then the other part of the meeting will focus on kind of a work
item status updates. are there any updates or changes to the agenda or
anything else that we would like to cover today? All right.

Manu Sporny: If not, let's go ahead and jump into the first topic, which is
chair nominations. if folks remember, we've got three chairs. They each
rotate in and out at different times and have kind of different cycles that
they Harrison who has been a chair for a very long time in this group and
has done a great job chairing is stepping down as the end of his cycle
ends. and so we have a chair nomination process that we go through where
people self-nominate and then they introduce themselves to the community
and then after the chair nomination time period ends we do kind of a
community vote for that.

Manu Sporny: So, if there is anyone that has nominated themselves or please
feel free to nominate yourself on this call today or over the mailing list.
I know that Denin Chen has stepped forward to run for the chair position.
So, I'm going to hand it over to Denin if you would like to say a few words
to the community about what you hope to accomplish if you were to become
one of the chairs. Over to you, Denin.

Denken Chen: Hey, thank you. thanks everyone. I'm Tinkan Chang. a little
bit about myself. I've been working in this digital identity area just a
little over one year with Ministry of Digital Affairs in Taiwan. so we
kickstarted our own digital identity body project for a little bit over a
year and so learn many things during the journey and making some
connections. I expected we will make more international connections next
year and personally I have been doing software development particularly on
the mobile app side.

Denken Chen: So I'm excited to learn how we could build a really
interoperable mobile wallet identity wallet for our community for the world
and I've been joining Tekk since last year and giving breakout sessions
about our project and then I realized since the did working group. There
was a specific monthly meeting for APEC Enzone but it did not work very
well at that time and we try to bring that concept into the CCG's meetings.
Then I work with Will and he started the APC CCG October series.

Denken Chen: I remember it's three speeches there and my hope is I've
learned there are already lots of connections and things moving forward in
the Apex area but most of the community and the governments are doing their
own things. they are not connecting with each other enough actually but
there's actually lots of things happening right now so I've learned I would
love to be in the chair to help the community to be connected particularly
in the APC region area and that's my hope for these positions and thanks to
Manu I recently have been connected
00:10:00

Denken Chen: with folks from Singapore and Mozip folks and trying to bring
up a pure technical interpretability workshop for the community. yeah, so I
believe there will be more connections from EPC region to the world. Thank
you.

Manu Sporny: Wonderful.

Denken Chen: And if there's any questions to discuss and please raise your
hands. Thank you.

Manu Sporny: Thank you, Denin, very much for that introduction and thank
you for being willing to run for the chair of the CCG. I personally love
that you are going to be focusing on building out the CCG's presence in the
APAC region and I think there's a lot of really interesting stuff that's
going on there that can benefit this community and hopefully this community
can benefit those initiatives.

Manu Sporny: So, really excited that you've thrown your hat in the ring to
run for any questions for Denin or would anybody else like to nominate
themselves for the chair position at this time? And you can always do that
on the mailing list later, think. if not, then we can go into our main
agenda today. thanks again Denin for taking the time to kind of explain
what you'd like to achieve as chair to the CCG. all right next item up is
our standard Q4 state of the CCG. let me go ahead and share the slide deck.
hopefully folks can see what I'm sharing.

Manu Sporny: we'll go through each one of the work items that we're working
on in the CCG. if there are editors for those work items here, I'll ask you
to kind of give us a brief on where the work item is. If there isn't,
probably know enough about the work item to at least give some brief
background. we can take questions as we go through the slide deck.

Manu Sporny: please raise your hand to put yourself on the queue if you've
got any questions as we go through these things. all right current state of
work items in the CCG. we're basically just going to go through the work
items and then see if there are any new proposals or upcoming changes or
any things that the CCG would like to accomplish in the next quarter. now
would be the time to kind of talk about those things. as well. all right.

Manu Sporny: so if folks remember we ran a CCG specification priorities
poll a while ago and those polls kind of came to the conclusion that there
were a number of items that were ready to be promoted and a couple of items
that were not ready for promotion just

Manu Sporny: yet currently we have depending on how you count it about 13
active work items in the group at varying levels of maturity. So what you
see on the screen is kind of the list of those items and let me go ahead
and share the link to this slide deck in the chat channel so everybody else
has access to it. let's see. Sorry, I'm having to share things. Okay, there
we go. all right. So, these are kind of the current work items that we're
actively adopted and working on. and in no particular order, we'll just go
through each one, talk about the status.

Manu Sporny: Is Dimmitri here today? Kyote, you're here. Would you mind
kind of giving us a quick update on render method and where it is?
00:15:00

Kayode Ezike: Sure with the caveat that I haven't attended a few recently
just because I know it's recently been moved to the VCWG but essentially
the idea behind it is that we want a specification that enables the ability
for issuers to give instructions to consumers of credentials on how to
render a credential. So the issuers tend to have thoughts around what the
branding of their credential should look like their badge where their logo
should reside where their name should be and all these different things
signature etc. And so this spec sort of tries to define different ways for
issuers to implement that feature.

Kayode Ezike: and there's provisions for different types of inputs and
outputs as far as is it going to start off as an SVG or is going to produce
an SVG or PDF etc. and there's also different template types. So there's
for example provisions around how do you actually enable the ability to
hear enable auditory features in a credential or other tap interfaces as
well. And so there's different sort of right tactile what I was trying to
say interface as well. So there's different ways to you can imagine that
quote unquote rendering a credential actually manifests in a wallet or in
other verifi verifier sort of applications. And so that's generally what's
going on as far as where things are at. I know that the group has started
meeting regularly again processing issues and there's been some active
discussions around that.

Kayode Ezike: I don't know if there's anything else that folks want to add
who's attending those as well.

Manu Sporny: No, that was good. just one thing to highlight is that it in
the VCWG it always was so this probably shouldn't say it's on the standards
track now. it has been on the standards track and we're putting active work
into it every week in the VCWG calls which happen what is that Wednesdays
at 11:00 a.m. Eastern. okay, thank you Coyote for that background. next one
up is confidence method. let's see Joe Denin I think you're an editor of
confidence method as well.

Denken Chen: Of course.

Manu Sporny: Do you mind giving a quick update on confidence method?

Denken Chen: So this one started from including the portrait image for the
confidence method and it's important in our case. So we would like to move
this forward and I think the portrait image will be a lot about the privacy
considerations things and that's one thing and another part is that we try
to incorporate the confidence levels based on the trust framework of
different ecosystems how they adopted the levels of the assurance data of

Denken Chen: identity assurance. however, we are still in discussion of
whether it should be corresponding to each confidence method or actually it
should be reside in the VC there is a evidence field. I'm not sure whether
it's being widely used or not. Yeah. So we probably need to have more
discussion on this. So I think it's pretty straightforward and I will work
closely with Joe to move things forwards. Yeah.

Manu Sporny: Thank you, confidence method is also another one of those
specifications that it's in scope for the current verifiable credential
working group. It will continue to be in scope. …

Manu Sporny: and so, we will, keep working on it. as Denin mentioned, there
are some kind of design issues that we want to work out, with it. Phil,
you're on the queue, please.

Phillip Long: Yeah, just a quick comment in the education space evidence is
being used and…

Phillip Long: encouraged to be used significantly. So just be bear in mind
that there is number of folks that are actually used in the evidence field.

Manu Sporny: Thank you, that is always a very good reminder. yeah and there
are two ways that we could use so one of the thing with confidence for a
long time we've said you can use a cryptographic key to raise confidence
that the holder has some amount of relationship with the but as Denin
mentioned because of some of the use cases in Asia Pacific I think
specifically the MOSEP farmer credential stuff where you don't have
anything but a biometric to go off of that now pictures of people have
become of interest and as Denin mentioned there are a whole bunch of
privacy considerations there so potentially using evidence to say this is
the person I handed this credential to when I issued
00:20:00

Manu Sporny: Ed and then saying if you want to gain confidence that it's
the same person, you can use their picture, to do so as one way that you
could raise confidence in, the subject of a credential. but again, there's
still a decent bit of work that some foundational stuff we need to address
as Denin mentioned here. All next specification and coyote I'm going to
call on you again for this one please. is the verifiable credential API for
life cycle management. we have been incubating the specification for four
years now I think.

Manu Sporny: And it's hit a point now where it's very well incubated and we
requested that it be put in the new verifiable credential working group
rechartering which that was kind of accepted as the next step.

Manu Sporny: But over to you to give us some background on what PCOM's
about and where we are.

Kayode Ezike: No problem.

Kayode Ezike: So, things seem to be moving along pretty well and smoothly
with that group. So, this is a quick sort of background. The verify
credentials API for life cycle management. The idea behind it is that it's
a specification that specifies HTTP sort of APIs for is presenting,
verifying and managing status of credentials, right? And that's both
enveloped and non-enveloped credentials. and so the sort of differentiator
of it in the marketplace really is that it tries to hit every part of the
life cycle of the credential.

Kayode Ezike: And there's different sort of manager different hosts of
these different APIs, So you can imagine that there's an issuer API,
there's the verifier one, there's one for holders if that's one that they
would like to use for presenting, for example. So I think since because
yesterday the last call happened, but the things that we've been doing
since then is just continuing to process issues. and we've really been able
to pair it down quite well. I think some of the exciting things that are
coming up are things like there's been discussions around how do you
specify for example a mechanism for wallets to sign credentials is part of
a BPR request right how do you specify that sort of request to a wallet
right it's not a common thing we've seen yet and it's a need that's coming
up more and more and there's a lot of debate about what's the best way to
do it and it's something we really want to introduce

Kayode Ezike: just because it's so powerful but it is an important feature
and there's other things like a call back mechanism whenever an event
happens in the BT and they become sort of life cycle and so there's some
interesting things going on in the spec and I think at this point we're
just kind of continue to maintain and reduce the set of issues until it's
been adopted by the working group that's

Manu Sporny: Thank you, and as Coyote mentioned, this is a well incubated
spec. It's got tons of implementations, at least partial implementations.
it's probably going to be where we put quite a bit of focus in the new VCWG
recharter. that's not a done deal, I mean, so we are going to talk about
the new charter during the next VCWG call. but the general consensus we got
to at W3CT pack was that VC API or VCOM's in scope certainly and is going
to be one of the higher priority things that we work on. it is in
production and has been in production for years. at least some subset of it.

Manu Sporny: And as Coyote mentioned, I feel like we've kind of addressed a
lot of the big rock issues there. go ahead Otto.

Manu Sporny: You're on the queue.

Otto Mora: Yeah, just a question.

Otto Mora: I've always had curiosity of if you could clarify the overlap
between this and the digital credentials API.
00:25:00

Otto Mora: Is there an interplay how do they work with each other or are
they just different approaches?

Manu Sporny: Yeah, that's a yeah,…

Manu Sporny: that's a great question. So, VC VCOM is one of the protocols
that DC API could use. So, the digital credential API, is really a way for
you to invoke a credential kind of flow through the browser. So, you're at
a website and then you use the website that uses the DC API to say "Hey, I
want a driver's license from you or I want a student transcript from you or
a open badge from you or something like that, right?"

Manu Sporny: and then the DC API basically delegates to another protocol
oid for VP or you could use VCOM or in theory the DC API is supposed to be
protocol and data format agnostic. It's supposed to not care. It just hands
the request from the website off to a digital wallet, right? so they work
in concert with each other in theory, we'll see what happens when we say
that VCOM should be one of the protocols that DC I so the DC API can be
viewed as a higher level browser API whereas the lower level credential
exchange APIs are things like OID4VP and VCOM and things of that nature. DC
API also doesn't cover life cycle management at all.

Manu Sporny: It's just like OID4, VCI and VP. with presentation. they don't
deal with life cycle management. if that helps. Den, please, you're on the
queue.

Denken Chen: Yeah. just like to share my understanding of this the VCON is
an overview of the technical infrastructure of the whole ecosystem and the
open VCI and VP and digital credentials API serve as an interface to
exchange information between the issuer to the holder or holder to
verifiers. So anything except for these two interactions are within the
VCOM infrastructure. Yeah. So that would include many of the internals API
from issuer side or what side or on verify side. Yeah, that's my
understanding.

Denken Chen: So I think we should propose and…

Denken Chen: a frequent FAQ to the public like how digital conditions API
and OPI for VCMVP could fit in the structure of Vietnam. Yeah.

Manu Sporny: Yeah, I think that you're exactly right and…

Manu Sporny: I think that would be a great idea to write that because I
think we tried to write a little bit about it in the specification…

Manu Sporny: but the specification is highly technical and most people are
just not going to read it. go ahead, Phil. You're up next.

Phillip Long: Just for those that might not see the historical context.

Phillip Long: Yeah. Can you talk just briefly how Chappie emerged and
changed?

Manu Sporny: Yeah, sure thing.

Manu Sporny: So Chappie was the credential handler API and it was a purely
so way back before DC API existed or oid4 existed or even VCOM existed we
knew that we needed a way in the browser to move things to a digital wallet
from an issuer to a holder and digital wallet and we knew that we needed
integrated way of delivering a credential to a website from the holder's
digital wallet to the verifier. So So Chappie initially was about
presentation. and the very first implementations happened of Chappie I
guess 13 years ago now.

Manu Sporny: where we utilize some stuff that the browsers had, meaning
third party cookies to basically open a window and engage with the wallet
when you needed to send something over to a website. we always knew that
Chappie was something that was going to exist for a short period of time
and hopefully the browser vendors would build some kind of Chappie thing
into the browser. and that's exactly what ended up happening. some of the
early discussions with Sam Goto at Google when they were thinking about the
precursor to the digital credential API they did take a very deep look at
Chappie and modeled a bunch of behavior based on how kind of Chappie works.
00:30:00

Manu Sporny: So the DC API if done correctly in an truly open wallet
ecosystem way is the spiritual successor to Chappie. and if DCAPI,
continues to support an open ecosystem, then Chappie goes away. did that
help, Phil? Yeah.

Phillip Long: Yeah, I just thought that there's often confusion between DC
API and Chappie and the layering that we're talking about. So, I think that
continues to be a point of clarification. Thanks.

Manu Sporny: Yep.

Manu Sporny: I mean the hope is that the truly DCAPI mechanism that truly
supports open wallet ecosystems happens large tech companies don't do what
they did with the payments API and all of a sudden kind of close down the
ecosystem and if that happens then the whole industry can move over DC to
DC API Okay, if that doesn't happen and there's some shenanigans that are
played in the browser vendor space we can always just fall back to doing QR
codes and oid4 VP and kind of move forward in that way. So we have escape
plans if anti-competitive stuff happens.

Manu Sporny: we've got multiple approaches. but it would be really nice if
DC API achieved the vision that, Sam and Rick at Google have outlined. I'll
also note that DC API does not support web wallets. Like that I personally
think is a pretty big deal. That's that's not good. and hopefully that gets
addressed in time. because that means that if you want to actually have
market competition, it means that the organizations that run the app
stores, meaning Google Play and the Apple Store still have ultimate control
about what can become a digital wallet and what can't become a digital
wallet. Right?

Manu Sporny: if you need to install a native app, then you need to go
through the app stores and then we have some big players in charge of
those. But the hope is that that's not a super big issue. But ideally DC
API opens up and supports web- based applications and doesn't just focus on
native apps. all right. Any other kind of questions, concerns about VCOM or
Chappie or DC API or how any of that stuff fits together? All right, moving
on to the next one. Verifiable credential barcodes.

Manu Sporny: Elaine, I'm gonna call on you, sorry to put you on the spot to
just kind of describe why barcodes might be a good idea. I don't know if
you're in a place where you can talk right now.

Elaine Wooton: I am in a place where I can talk but my camera keeps turning
on and off. And now I have no cameras…

Manu Sporny: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Elaine Wooton: but I don't need the camera. You can hear me. yeah. So the
main thing is that there's already verifiable credential in the California
driver's license. So be good to move ahead with having the standard for it.
but there's just a huge push toward putting some kind of cryptographically
signed barcode on all sorts of documents based on the sophistication with
which counterfeit is doing the physical documents and then obviously that
rolls over into the digital acceptance also. So we've already done it with
the California and with a bunch of other things also. and there just isn't
an existing standard now.

Elaine Wooton: So, we need to push it through. Pretty simple.

Manu Sporny: Thank you, Yes. Just a simple matter of pushing the global
standard through. and you're right, it does help a ton that this thing is
out in production in a very real way. So, as Elaine mentioned, California
has it on the back of their driver's licenses. As of October 1st this year,
if you get a California driver's license after October 1st of 2025, you
will have a verifiable credential embedded on that PDF 417 barcode on the
back of the license. that's this thing on the far right here. and this is
getting deployed out to the entire population of people that have
identification cards or driver's licenses in California. That's 34 million
people in California.
00:35:00

Manu Sporny: and it'll be out to the full population over seven years,
which is the amount of time it takes for a driver's license to expire, but
that's looking good over there. the VCWG did come to consensus that it
would be good to include this work in the next rechartering. so, that's
going to be included as well. there are a bunch of gory details on how the
technology works in the specifications. I think we could call this
specification a well incubated specification since it is in a very high
profile use case and is being deployed in other use cases over the next I
don't know year or so we'll see additional high-profile use cases coming
out that uses the VC

Manu Sporny: barcode stuff. so in good shape there. I think that's it for
that verifiable credentials over wireless. is another specification. I can
take this this one is about transmitting verifiable credentials over medium
range wireless like Bluetooth. so what we're trying to do here is support
offline use cases.

Manu Sporny: the requirements for this kind of came from the first
responder community that was basically like look if we're responding to a
disaster the chances that you have internet might not be there right
meaning the cell network might be shut down and we need to identify people
rapidly and get people moved to certain locations. we need to identify the
first responders that are showing up to make sure they're legitimate, they
have training, to enter a dangerous area, things like that. So, that's
where this wireless stuff comes in. unfortunately, I mean, the NFC stuff is
making good progress, but the Bluetooth stuff isn't as much.

Manu Sporny: and in addition to that, there isn't as much push or support
for the technology. Meaning the number of people that are actually offline
and really have a missionritical need to operate offline is really small
and getting smaller. I don't know if y'all have seen that, some of the new
cell phones just connect to low Earth orbit satellites. So, if your mobile
network's down, it doesn't really matter because you've got a constellation
of 30,000 satellites above you that are routing traffic. Mobile by default
has this turned on as of a year ago. the Starlink satellites are providing
this kind of support AT\&T and in a variety of other mobile network
carriers.

Manu Sporny: So this concept of you might not be able to connect to the
internet and you're in a disaster zone or out in the middle of nowhere is
kind of a disappearing con concept right but all that said they're good
nice privacy reasons to just do short range wireless there use cases where
you have internet of things type devices that you want to transmit a VC
that could utilize this so it is in the new recharger but it's fairly low
priority. We'll get to it if we can get to it. it is useful. but until
there are more companies or people that have an interest in pushing it
forward, it's probably just going to stay in a backlog. okay, that's VC
wireless. go ahead, Otto.

Otto Mora: Just a question on this one. So, I've always heard about
DIDCOM's capabilities to be transport agnostic and…

Otto Mora: I was just wondering if that NFC implementation there in
particular was using DICOM or maybe something else or

Manu Sporny: No, the NFC implementation just provides a raw verifiable
presentation or…

Manu Sporny: a raw verifiable credential. So, it doesn't use DIDCOM at all.
it's just like you basically just take a VC and you transmit it over N and
the downside there's no challenge that's kind of set up there. You've got
to figure out a different way of doing the challenge. And part of what the
spec could work on is doing a challenge response over NFC. It's possible.
basically just like reusing the protocols over VCOM, exact same thing,
right? but instead of making the connection over HTTP, you make it over NFC
and then you send the messages back and forth.
00:40:00

Manu Sporny: but yeah, it doesn't use didcom right now. All right, that's
species over wireless. I'm going to try to pick up the pace a bit noting
the rifiable credential refresh is a spec that is just about like your
credential is getting ready to expire. Can you get a new one? this is in
production and has been in production since 2023 with true age and the
California DMV app. there's more than one implementation now. but again
this is one of those things that's kind of on the backlog. it's useful but
you usually only really need it at scale or for shortlived credentials.

Manu Sporny: And now that we have bitstring status list and revocation
we're seeing people issue for very long time frames now whereas before they
were just refreshing every couple of weeks or months. cool good to know
that you use it at provado auto. I didn't know. so that's good and so maybe
we can work with you on a second implementation or some help with the spec
if you want to move it forward in a useful technology but kind of on the
back burner until we get more people involved. verifiable issuers and
verifiers is David Chadwick or Isaac Jackson Paul here.

Manu Sporny: Benjamin, I don't know if you want to since you've been kind
of running these calls, if you wanted to say anything about this.

Benjamin Young: Yeah, I can say something quickly. Just in the last month,
while many of you were traveling for TAC, a few of us were still meeting on
this topic and David Chadwick in particular and a handful of other folks
have been working on the terminology coming in from other groups for
verifiable issuers and verifiers and we've been trying to rework them to
simplify the data model and clarify it. the work's ongoing but we are
making good progress and love to have more involvement from anyone
interested in this particular use case. That's it.

Manu Sporny: Thank you, yeah, and the core use case here for verifiable
issuers and verifiers is if somebody gives you a credential and you get a
credential from a particular issuer, how can you trust that that issuer was
supposed to issue this credential? if you get a university degree, is that
issuer an actual university? How do you know that's what this technology is
supposed to address? as an example it is in the new recharter. So again
this one has a little higher priority. There are people that kind of want
to see it done a little sooner than later.

Manu Sporny: but again, we're still dealing with some fairly low-level
things in the spec, some design, concerns, issues in the spec, but I think
it's going pretty smoothly. as we work through those items, let's see. data
integrity 20 incubation. Greg's currently traveling so I can cover this.
We're just waiting on the BBS work to work itself through the ITF
cryptoform research group that has taken a really painfully long time and
continues to take a painfully long time and we were hopeful that it would
be done this year but it's just been stuck in review. there is progress
being made on it.

Manu Sporny: more people are, jumping on to work on it. but it's just the
nature of these things that there's just not enough people, to review,
these sorts the other thing that we've kind of looked at is the Lihero
stuff, the Longfellow ZK stuff that's happening in the EU. I think there's
a general feeling in the group that Lehero and Longfellow is not
necessarily scalable. it's useful. we might find a better use for it, but
it requires a tremendous amount of management and setup and has a whole
bunch of ecosystem governance management issues that it creates that we
didn't have to deal with before that we would potentially have to deal with
now.
00:45:00

Manu Sporny: And largely it's probably a negotiation between Google and the
European Union about what the circuits are and what they do and that sort
of thing. not much that many of us can have an impact from a engagement
perspective. There's some postquantum scheme stuff that needs worked on
there. and that work continues. not ready for promotion yet. there also the
test suites. Benjamin, maybe you could speak to this.

Manu Sporny: I mean, I think we're pretty much done with these because we
finished with 20, but maybe want to give a background

Benjamin Young: Yeah. Yeah.

Benjamin Young: There's nothing really new to share here. but the test
suites have been stable since we got the last iteration of the BCWG
specifications done and the number of implementers also hasn't changed in
the last six months or so. They're still available. you can and should
integrate with them. the test suites run every Sunday night Sunday morning,
forget over the weekend. so if you have an implementation that you would
like to see added to these, they're still reporting. It's also a good way
to keep your implementation honest as you iterate on it. all the results of
these also appear on the canivc.com site.

Benjamin Young: And we're working with the W3C to bring that into the W3C
as a general sort of promotion space for how the ecosystem is doing and a
public health check. so if you'd like to be on that dashboard, specifically
integrating with these test suites is a really good idea. That's it.

Manu Sporny: Thank you, plus one, all that. …

Manu Sporny: yeah, implementers. I don't know if we have too many new
impleers, Benjamin, that you've seen. I think we've stabilized a bit on
implementers. All right. Moving on. CCG test suites. Benjamin, I don't know…

Benjamin Young: Yeah, these are all the same.

Benjamin Young: No,…

Manu Sporny: if you want to Yeah,…

Benjamin Young: no change There is work on a did resolution test suite
that's not listed here, but that's not a CCG thing that's in the DIW WG.
but it's based on the same work. So that's really the only new test suite
topic shift in the last six months

Manu Sporny: plus one of that and a short moment to plug that we need help
on the did resolution test suite.

Manu Sporny: right now that's putting a lot of effort into that and he's
doing a great job but the more the marrier. So if you are looking for a
place or there's a community need where we really need help with the did
resolution test suite and writing the rest of it which you would have help
with. we've got people that can So just a quick plug for help there. VCEDU,
I don't know if Phil, you want to cover anything that's happening in the
VCEDU space that we should pay attention to

Phillip Long: The last several meetings I guess because of holidays and
such have been pponed. So there hasn't been much activity late lately. I
don't know if anybody else has a further enhancement of it or convers or
contribution to make. I know that they are in the process of seeking two or
three new present presenters to address that group and I don't think
there's any definitive dates yet. So, it's basically on hold through the
holidays is what I would suspect.

Manu Sporny: Okay, great.

Manu Sporny: Thanks, Phil, for the update.

Alex Higuera: Sounds about right.

Alex Higuera: I know Dimmitri was looking to book some presenters. I think
he might have a couple in mind, but nothing is set. And I think there'll be
more updates in the new year.

Manu Sporny: Thanks, and thanks,…

Phillip Long: Thank you, Alex.

Manu Sporny: Phil. I will mention that there's quite a bit happening in
VCEDU around verifiable credentials. there's movement happening next year
to do some pretty big things. I don't think I can speak to details there
yet but there's some good things happening in 2026 I think around the VCEDU
related related items. did link resources.
00:50:00

Manu Sporny: Do we have anyone from the did link resources group here? I
don't know enough about it to give an update. All right. So, we'll skip
that for now. and that's the last item that we need to cover and we're
about out of time. so, thank you everyone the editors and work item folks
for the updates.

Manu Sporny: I really appreciate it. I think one of the interesting things
is a lot of our incubation work here in this group has paid off and now
it's being moved to the standards track and all of a sudden, we had a ton
of work items in this group and now we're going to be reduced by half of
those, right? because they're moving on, they're graduating. which means
that, we're always looking for interesting new work that this community
could do. ways that we could help adoption. and other things that are did
in and digital wallet related. with that, that's our call for today. thank
you everyone for joining and participating and we will pick back up with
our regular schedule for CCG next week. Thanks all. Have a good one. Take
care. Bye.
Meeting ended after 00:51:48 👋

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