- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 13:52:11 +0000
- To: public-credentials@w3.org
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-03-24-vc-education/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-03-24-vc-education/audio.ogg A video recording is also available at: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2025-03-24.mp4 ---------------------------------------------------------------- VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2025-03-24 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2025Mar/0004.html Organizer: Kerri Lemoie, Simone Ravaioli, Dmitri Zagidulin Scribe: Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords Present: Dmitri Zagidulin, Eric Shepherd, Don Presant, Learning Agents, Canada, Stuart Freeman, Sharon Leu, Ildiko Mazar, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Sheela Kiiskila, Susan Stroud @ Lifequipt, James Chartrand, Kaliya Young, Timg, Nis Jespersen , Jeff O / HumanOS, Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Deb Everhart, Kayode Ezike, gillian, PL, Nate Otto, David Chadwick <ildiko_mazar> Can you start the recording and transcription, please, Dmitri? Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right excellent yeah so uh that there's potentially exciting news so the where a task force of the w3c ccg who uh has recently had a discussion about upgrading the meeting note taking and and call infrastructure. Dmitri Zagidulin: There's uh there's consensus to upgrade to. Dmitri Zagidulin: Who meet and some open source uh Auto transcription uh that that would be probably slightly better than what we're using. <ildiko_mazar> fingers crossed Dmitri Zagidulin: Here with jitsi so uh we'll we'll work with uh the chairs there get all the details and uh pretty soon we'll probably be switching over to Google meet. Dmitri Zagidulin: How's it going it's fingers crossed that's right yeah so should should be good okay uh recording uh no introductions do we have any Community announcements. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh please raise your hand we we use uh jitsi QQ up basically you click on the raise hand button and it gives you up in order. Dmitri Zagidulin: The main sort of uh event that I'm aware of is we've got internet identity Workshop coming up in April in Mountain View California for those of you who can make it it's always it's always a good time and speaking of uh here's Kalia 1 of the organizers. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh all right any other announcements hi Kalia I was just talking about IBEW coming up. Dmitri Zagidulin: Oh big 40 that's awesome hey how does time even work. <eric_shepherd> Unfornately im not hearing audio Kaliya Young: I I don't know. Dmitri Zagidulin: That's so exciting wow. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh yeah all right uh any other announcements. Dmitri Zagidulin: Okay in that case let us move on to our main topic. <eric_shepherd> I only see the transcription Dmitri Zagidulin: Today we have uh we have Sharon Lou to talk about uh various things uh including and not limited to the market scan Sharon uh over to you thank you for thank you for joining us thank you for. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> Apologies, I don't hear anything except that applause and "Recording is on"...help? Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh sharing your findings. Sharon Leu: Um can you hear me. Dmitri Zagidulin: We can indeed. Sharon Leu: Okay so I'm going to just comment first a couple people in the chat have um pointed out that they can only hear the strange jitsi noises and not any of the audio is there something that you can type into the chat to help with that. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah so okay yep can do that. Sharon Leu: And I'm going to try to share my screen so let's see if that works. <dmitri_zagidulin> those who don't hear sound - try switching to a different browser <dmitri_zagidulin> try Chrome or Safari, etc Sharon Leu: Uh open system preferences hold okay. Sharon Leu: Um are you seeing my screen. Sharon Leu: Okay great um so what I'm going to do is um well thank you first for having me on and giving me a chance to talk a little bit about um a recent work product that my team has uh released. <eric_shepherd> Im using the app <dmitri_zagidulin> @Eric - i see, try connecting on the web then? <dmitri_zagidulin> the app sometimes has trouble with our version of Jitsi server Sharon Leu: Um what I'm going to do I'm going to talk a bit about this project I'm going to run through just a few slides very quickly um and I would love for us to be able to have a conversation about what you all thought um and let's see um if I can do slideshow mode and still. Sharon Leu: Okay is this is this like is this the screen but not like. Sharon Leu: The other stuff. <ildiko_mazar> I never ever managed to connect to these calls via the app, @Eric, try the web Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah we we just see the title screen verify the credentials. Sharon Leu: Great okay perfect so all of this works um so we so let me just talk a little bit about um who is jmf what is this project and the thing itself which is um our 2025 Market scan of uh digital credential wallets um so here's our debt which basically follows the outline of the report of the market scan I'm not going to read the market scan to you obviously but. <eric_shepherd> @Ildiko. Thank you! š Will do. Sharon Leu: Of sections in it um talks a little bit about the context of the skills first talent Marketplace um and how it can lead to a systems level transformation some of the what we considered and saw to be the foundational components of that key opportunities for impact the work ahead and I think as we discuss we can talk a little bit about The Cutting Room floor AKA um either juicy bits or extraneous side quests that were left out because we exceeded our page count limit. <eric_shepherd> Iām in and audio is now working <dmitri_zagidulin> @Eric - excellent! <ildiko_mazar> FYI, you can find the report at https://www.jff.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/JFF_Verifiable-Credentials-Wallets-in-a-Skills-First-Talent-Marketplace_Mar-2025_2.pdf Sharon Leu: Just by way of introduction my name is Sharon Lou and I work in an organization called jobs for the future um jobs for the future is a national nonprofit in the US um we had our 40th birthday a couple of years ago but essentially our goal is to enable 75 million people who face systemic barriers to advancement to work in quality jobs this is 75 million in the US um and so a lot of the work that we have done traditionally has focused on um transforming the education and Workforce systems here. Sharon Leu: Um but um our team at jmf Labs specifically thinks about how can technology be a tool for us to accomplish these goals. Sharon Leu: Um this is what we can we call a jmf Labs Market scan it's part of the insights function of our Labs team which is not only to look at what all of the cool shiny things are in our ecosystem but to really think about the opportunities that Technologies provide us to really transform um the ecosystem of education and work as well as to fundamentally give opportunity to people um so if you want to check out some of the other Market scams um I guess the live I will share uh the deck and the live links presumably will work um in that. Sharon Leu: We are starting with this idea of we are looking at digital wallets um this is a Gartner quote that I think a lot of people had um 500 million smartphone users worldwide will rely on digital identity wallets so this was an interesting topic for us um. Sharon Leu: Because what this is actually a refresh of a market scan we had done in the past and we don't typically do like a refresh of a market scan because I don't know there's just many more topics for us to explore um. Sharon Leu: But because. Sharon Leu: Because of the evolution of um healthy and used we thought it was different enough from the 2022 version that we put out like the ecosystem had changed enough the use cases were different enough that we could tell a different story so you see here um our original uh Market scan the the sort of static link for all of this body of work is still jff.org digital wallets um but really thinking about all of the different changes that have happened um since so you'll hear us tell a story hopefully successfully of um not only the wallet itself as a place to store and share your digital credentials but the way that the larger um community and ecosystem can use these tools um. Sharon Leu: Publish a number of different goals so um let's get into this so um we started where we started in 2022 and which is sort of the foundation of a lot of the work we do which is about the talent Marketplace um 2022 we put this graphic out which we really like which is that we want um digital credentials um to be controlled by the user um in a way that allows users to store multiple credentials from multiple issues um over a long period of time and then to allow them to share these credentials as they pursue opportunities in employment and education um foundationally and fundamentally this is what we think is critical. Sharon Leu: Providing opportunity and actually a really important tool um this is still true and so um oh actually before I get to the next slide I should say 1 other disclaimer we do highlight a number of companies in the same way that we did before 1 of the things that we did try to do was tell stories about the impact on a number of different users so this isn't a catalog of um things you can buy because we think they're cool um this isn't this is an ad space necessarily for any of these companies so don't take these as uh endorsements or it like there's no sort of like uh coupon code or you know friend code to to any of these companies these are just stories that we thought communicated that the impact that this technology ecosystem um. Sharon Leu: Um this was our first and most basic use case can you store and share your credentials a variety of them um in your in in a digital wallet and can that actually lead to opportunity um but then as we were thinking reflecting on the last sort of the progression of this infrastructure over the last 3 years we started to see that there was like in addition to doing this there were other things that um we could do so 1 of the stories that we highlighted is the story of um credit Vera there are you know digital wallet company as are all of these but in addition to storing and sharing your digital um like your education credentials in your licenses um the tool allows um employers to easily be able to see um. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> Grant impact, great! Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Sharon Leu: Like existing like uh. Sharon Leu: Problems in context right so you know like the digital credentials and leers they're just you know 1 of the things but you know we hear a lot as we work um with our stakeholders like you know maybe there are a lot of credentials but you know there are not you know it's it's a classic cold start problem for us like there are there enough credentials are there enough verification tools is there a demand is there Supply just sort of thinking about how to prioritize the needs of um stakeholders like job Seekers um in order to sort of like fill out this uh these ecosystem tools um. Sharon Leu: Something that we think is particularly important um. Sharon Leu: Maybe this gets to what did get left leave left on The Cutting Room floor is this idea of safeguarding privacy and like how to communicate the importance of that and to um sort of work towards that um in a way where it like sort of. Sharon Leu: Respects the Legacy structure of like centralized data collection reporting and the efficiencies that that provides um balancing them with some new and not new not really new but sort of newly in the news issues related to individual privacy. Sharon Leu: Um we think that there's significant amount of work that needs to be done to just as awareness to combat domain specific isolationism and what we mean by that is you know you know it's great to have an education and work force task force in a lot of these contexts. Sharon Leu: But creating more sort of Niche education specific uh tools data models definitions May ultimately impact the interoperability of these in the the larger sort of system context um and then finally sort of understanding um the relationship that a lot of these small decentralized projects have in the context of movements that occur in sort of the big Tech spaces um so I think that like um I added work items and maybe this goes a little bit on Cutting Room floor because this didn't work in there um I know that um Carrie lemoy and several others of us have had a number of conversations about future work items that we might propose um to this group as well as to like the main ccg group um of tools and things that we think could actually contribute um. Sharon Leu: You the tools and resources that would enable people to start using these Technologies in the context of education and Workforce um so I will just stop talking there and um maybe I don't know if there's like questions I can't see but um I'll pop over and. Dmitri Zagidulin: Thank you yeah no uh this this is fantastic so uh 1 1 question that I immediately see from Don from Don in chat what about self assertion or peer recognition. <pl> @Don Presant - as you know we're working on peer recognition/self-assertion Dmitri Zagidulin: And Such live verifiable claims and then we've got ildico on the queue. Sharon Leu: Like do I think it's important or like can you elaborate on the question. Don_Presant,_Learning_Agents,_Canada: Um sure uh basically to say that um I'm wearing my open recognition hat here I was just presenting about it last week uh the idea that uh recognition should not just come from above from um a um. Don_Presant,_Learning_Agents,_Canada: Recognized agency or institution uh there should be room for um recognizing your peers saying who you are and why you recognize this person and even making your own self assertion and saying here's me here's my evidence you can trust that all these this is true and this is all verifiable claim I'm just wondering if that's part of the actively. Don_Presant,_Learning_Agents,_Canada: Managed or the actively planned ecosystem. Sharon Leu: Um so I think that's an excellent point and I think that it's non-inclusion should not be um I think you should not infer that like we don't think that's important we know actually Demitri you're working on endorsement in some of um we we just like it just wasn't like. Sharon Leu: Hadn't been enough progress on it for us to identify it as like there's a thing that we can like Point people back to does that make sense. Don_Presant,_Learning_Agents,_Canada: That would be great that might be a great topic for epic this October to say it. Dmitri Zagidulin: Oh sounds good. Sharon Leu: Yes um I mean looking at you Dmitri right because you are doing all the work on that. Dmitri Zagidulin: Happy to talk a bit more about it I just want to make sure um Isla goes up next on the Queue and then I'll hop on and talk about endorsements and so on uh go ahead It Go. Sharon Leu: Okay I don't want to like okay I I I want to stay on topic and I'll say first that um the credit Vera use case um was easy for us to write about or we wanted to write about it because it was a solution that was designed um specifically for an employer so the fact that there were missing requirements what like went back to how the employer defined like green and red right so you saw like some people got a green light they could go on site some people had a red light um and in that case um the employer had a very specific list that they populated with the vendor and said if a person has you know these certifications or these like skills demonstrated in this way then they are allowed on site right so it's an access pass. Sharon Leu: Had 4 out of the 5 things you've got a red but if you have 5 out of 5 um you could go on and then that like very clear definition allowed them to say you have 4 out of the 5 here's the 5th 1 that's missing right. <pl> Peer recognition is also a part of the proposed Arya ecosystem in First Person credential they've proposed. <ildiko_mazar> It is definitely a very good and solid start Sharon Leu: That's not always and so we liked that because um I think that um a lot of times in education we build things and hope people will use them so we make a lot of digital credentials we congratulate ourselves on the billions and billions of digital credentials. Sharon Leu: 1 Of the things that um we've been working on at JFS is thinking about well how do these uh credentials find um their sort of like uh calling in life right like how does how do these credentials actually Grant access to work opportunities for people and asking employers that question often leads to different answers right so a construction company says you need 5 pieces of you know like qualification to be on site but every employer is going to answer that question differently and this is the trick right um can you work with every single employer to clearly Define what they want in a particular job role for a particular job and map it back I think that there are the beginnings of that work um I think that also the question is like when do you check these because traditionally what we would say in traditional Workforce Development is when you are applying for a job could an employer through their applicant tracking system just. Sharon Leu: Pick off. <ildiko_mazar> Absolutely! So basically the employer has the liberty to be as inclusive or exclusive as they wish Sharon Leu: Certain people or is the employer somewhat committed to providing this training um in this case of the construction company they didn't want to check it when during the application process they wanted to check it um standing at the work site right so it's also um being able to understand like when is a employer going to use which kind of credential for what purpose um and can an ecosystem be developed so that credentials are the tool that they use um so that's like 1 part of it is like in that it is easier or harder depending on um how you design with an employer. Sharon Leu: The other. Sharon Leu: Heard of your answer is I think that you're never going to understand skill unless you are hiring a commercial like someone to drive a truck and you they need a commercial driver's license um that piece of identity document is not actually meant to be uh qualification for a job role and this is where it becomes a little bit more complex and again understanding the sort of uh end user the sort of demand side needs of um that ecosystem to put together like what are all the credentials and which ones give that information and actually even thinking about what is the information inside the credential um that needs to be there and how does it need to be displayed in order for um a person to be able to use it I feel like these are very very sort of. Sharon Leu: Unexplored not non explored but I think there's so much more there that needs to be done for us to be able to release claim ecosystem is robust enough to actually give you know this kind of opportunity so I think what we tried to do is tease the possibility that this can happen encourage people to start thinking about it holistically. Dmitri Zagidulin: Thank you so much Aaron. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right so uh I'll hop hop on the Queue uh to talk a little bit about self issued credentials uh peer recognition self attestation so first of all what do we mean by that. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh and and why is it important and what needs to happen in order for it to play a major role in our verifiable credential wallet and issue and verify our ecosystems. Dmitri Zagidulin: So 1 common example of a self asserted credential that we use all the time. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh that that might be useful to structure our discussion around is a resume. Dmitri Zagidulin: Do as the as the applicant are putting together this document either as a as a text document or in some cases some job application marketplaces uh you're putting it together as sort of a structured data model behind the scenes but the point is you're laying out a number of claims such as I went to this and this University I have the following skills I I went to these clubs and got this recognition right all of those things. Dmitri Zagidulin: At the moment. Dmitri Zagidulin: All of those are self assertions and play an important role in like in our world in our life but here's what's important to note. Dmitri Zagidulin: In order to be really useful. <nate_otto> Recognition in da club is usually very informal but sometimes imporant Dmitri Zagidulin: The self assertions need to be the claims need to be backed up by evidence and and that's 1 good good way to think about it what do we need. Dmitri Zagidulin: This uh what needs to happen in order for self assertions and and peer recognition to play a larger role in verify the credential 3 things. Dmitri Zagidulin: 1 Is there needs to be a strong emphasis on evidence right I'm claiming claiming this thing and to back it up here's here's the evidence for example. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh I went to this club. Dmitri Zagidulin: It is my. Dmitri Zagidulin: Especially as the as we grow the verifiable credential ecosystem. Dmitri Zagidulin: Most claims most facts even institutional ones won't be available in the digitally signed form right the club I went to existed 10 years ago and since has disbanded of course they're not. Dmitri Zagidulin: Of course no to verify the credential is coming but I can at least do a self assertion and let's say attach an image uh I take a photo of my acceptance letter to the club right more more relevant uh more more likely I'm making a skill assertion right since we're talking about skill-based hiring I can say I'm a barista I know how to make uh perfect latte art and it can attach a video of My Demo right of my latte art night competition at the the local coffee shop or I'm a developer I claim I know how to how to do HTML and I attached as evidence my GitHub repository with with the source code so that's thing number 1 what do we need for uh essentially for self assertions to win we need an emphasis on evidence fortunately at least data model wise uh not much needs to happen there it's already included into the data model especially for example in the open badges version 3 they hit a model there's an Evidence field. Dmitri Zagidulin: We got everything. Dmitri Zagidulin: We just need to make sure that our issuing platforms support evidence and of course that are verifying platforms. Dmitri Zagidulin: It easier for verifiers for humans looking at this stuff to pull up the evidence to examine it to make judgments on it and so on so evidence is number 1 uh number 2. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh as as Don mentioned and uh is incredibly important what makes self asserted claims stronger. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> endorsement=secondary (indirect) evidence Dmitri Zagidulin: Collab uh collaboration and recognition and um endorsements from peers so I claim uh I can make latte arts and in support of that here is a also self asserted claim from my uh shift manager of my my supervisor that you have to meet she knows how to make latte art or uh here is a self assorted credential self sort of claim from my um from my peers that says yes to me she knows how to I don't know write HTML so so that's uh that's number 2 and what do we need in order to make that happen uh so that's 1 of the 1 of the things that uh we're exploring for example uh with Phil Long and the T3 Chamber of Commerce Foundation of writing a couple of uh open source uh application to demonstrate the workflow to to show what an app would look like that allows you to make self asserted claims and then get feedback get recommendations. Dmitri Zagidulin: Get endorsed. Dmitri Zagidulin: From other people. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh so and here we we have now a pair of verified credential 1 a claim and the other 1 is a credential about that claim confirming or refuting and so on. Dmitri Zagidulin: The third element that that needs to happen Force officer credentials. Dmitri Zagidulin: Is of course the element of identity. <pl> Evidence in a secondary assertion/endorsement is in the substantiation of the endorsers background with evidence that they're in position to make such a judgement corroborating the initial assertion Dmitri Zagidulin: If if we're saying that hey uh claim from my supervisor adds to the the believability of the credential how do we know what the person is my supervisor right we need and and here that's that's the hardest um challenge of all of those that's where we get into the notion of personhood credentials issuer Registries and the thing about issue Registries and and uh hopefully next week we'll be able to talk about those uh I'll do a issue registry 1 on 1 uh presentation. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh those are super important and uh Baseline in fact I wanted to ask Sharon uh the the question of in the market scan in talking with all these vendors what have you how what what's the level of awareness that you've seen for the need for issue Registries and verify Registries but we'll come back to that in just a second so so the third element for. Dmitri Zagidulin: Is uh the notion of identity is the notion of issuer Registries is okay if we have backup evidence for my peers. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> NB: Peer recognition is more than endorsement, can also be like a reference letter: "I nominate this person" Dmitri Zagidulin: And how do we know that those are our peers and that I didn't make it up etc etc. Dmitri Zagidulin: So far most of the work on issue or Registries has focused on institutional Registries for for very good reasons uh those are those are easiest to get started with those are easiest to regulate and in some markets in verticals those maybe the only things possible for example uh if you recall ABC's European blockchain. Dmitri Zagidulin: Initiative uh who who we're doing an ABC did methods uh they did 2 versions uh ABC did version 1 was for institutional issuers was for organizations essentially and those were kept in a directory went through a kyc process uh on signup and so on. Dmitri Zagidulin: But the reason. <pl> The third element Dmitri described suggests that identity through notarized assertions is a key element that we need to add to our ecosystem. <ildiko_mazar> EBSI: European Blockchain Services Infrastructure Dmitri Zagidulin: They had a second did type the reason they had a did version 2 separate from from version 1 and it wasn't a sequential know you both both are needed in parallel with specifically for natural persons was for humans those cannot and must not go in a directory for those the process of uh know your customer and identity verification is a lot more perilous than for public companies or nonprofits or clubs or organizations which are public sort of by. Dmitri Zagidulin: By their. Dmitri Zagidulin: For humans it's the exact opposite so. Dmitri Zagidulin: There's never going to be especially if we do our job right there's never going to be directories of all the humans ever or all the humans in um even a jurisdiction even in tightly controlled uh legal jurisdictions like the European Union they are specifically making an informed explicit choice not to make that available to to in fact Outlaw it. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> Love this Natural person exploration... Dmitri Zagidulin: So then if we don't have directories uh for these issuer Registries how do we handle this notion of identity for peer recognition and for um for for evidence uh of claims and here much like much like often verified with credentials if you notice we fall back on existing. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> Could also explore triangulation, a la ORCA Dmitri Zagidulin: Existing techniques existing social and legal techniques in this case that of uh notaries essentially that's that's not the only approach of doing it but that's that's 1 of the things that we're exploring for example in uh in our projects with uh Phil and the T3 Chamber of Commerce foundation and that is how do we how do we verify identity in a casual peer-to-peer Way in real life in paper-based credentials well for when applying to institutions they have their own institutional kyc process but what about when dealing with parts of the person and when buying a car or not buying a car when when. Dmitri Zagidulin: Between between peers and the answer is at least in the US but also in a lot of other countries system of public notaries uh and note what the notaries do they don't. Dmitri Zagidulin: They're not. Dmitri Zagidulin: Subject matter experts when. Dmitri Zagidulin: What I'm making a claim on a resume or a signing form signing a legal form that's that's making a claim they don't examine the form and determine whether or not the claim is true that they can't if if I'm if I'm putting on a form that I know how to write HTML they can't test me and my coding skills but they can. Dmitri Zagidulin: Up my passport or driver's license my government identification whatever I got going for it and at least verify the identity and verify the act that I was there in person with them on such and such a date and sign this document. Dmitri Zagidulin: And that's the that's the pattern where. Dmitri Zagidulin: We're exploring. Dmitri Zagidulin: Pursuing in in these prototypes so to summarize uh selfishly credentials super important especially as the verified credential ecosystem is uh doing bootstrapped because not everything is going to happen institutional. Dmitri Zagidulin: Institutionally issued credentials in fact the vast majority of things in fact about history is not going to be institutionally uh. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> Nerdy Q: "Was I observed producing this evideence?" Dmitri Zagidulin: Additional issued so we need we need a solution for these vast use cases uh that that that aren't covered by uh traditional issues. Dmitri Zagidulin: Important use case what do we need for it uh we need to figure out how to do identity and this notion of issue registries. Dmitri Zagidulin: We need. <pl> Notaries aren't subject matter experts - but they are experts in determining identity, and in formal documents that they have they characteristics of validity (bank statements, ultility bills, etc. are such artifacts) Dmitri Zagidulin: Need to emphasize evidence and we need to emphasize um endorsements recommendations and uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: Dear feedback all right so that was a lot of talking apologies this is super interesting topic. <don_presant,_learning_agents,_canada> Love to explore this further at epic.openrecognition.org Dmitri Zagidulin: Let's let's go to the key let's see who else is uh Q. Dmitri Zagidulin: Please of course. Sharon Leu: Um okay so that was really great and I'm glad we got to talk about that and also I appreciated your question about who's asking for Registries and um I think that um when you do the the registry 101 it'll be really really good for people to think about this because actually um. Sharon Leu: The observation that we have is that like No 1 will say oh yes like we must okay only certain people will say we must have an issue or registry and you're right that those are the technology developers I think it's stakeholders who um need to understand trust will ask for um what amounts to be a registry um without saying those 2 words trust registry does that make sense like um I think that people are deeply appreciative of what a trust registry gets you functionally um without having said those 2 words um. Sharon Leu: I think that there are many examples um I myself in the former um in the former employee of an organization that um no longer exists slash soon will no longer exist and like if I need to Pro produce evidence that I once was an employee of said Organization for example like the the like very real world implications are things that people deeply understand I will say that something that um so I'll tease this uh it's not quite ready yet but in this sort of like. Sharon Leu: Things in addition to like Registries the ability to like endorse in self- issue did see from a number of different um. <pl> They greater the risk associated with accepting a credential the more open people will be open to a seek trust registries. Sharon Leu: Solutions providers is um especially if they're not natively um in education or Workforce company breaking in to the education space can be difficult and 1 of the reasons it's difficult is because of the variety of financial types that could potentially exist um and so 1 of the ideas that we have for a new work item at the ccg is a directory um of credential data models um so you can imagine all the different data types that we would want for their to be interrupts to be interoperable across the ecosystem like not only like an employee ID or you know employment verification but student ID um. <pl> ... open to seek out trust registries ... Sharon Leu: There's a ton of work on transcripts obviously um but you know just even other of the different credential types um it would be useful for I think I think that it would be useful for people who are trying to understand how digital credentials work within the education space to have that as well as to align within our existing education ecosystem but that's sort of like just a hypothesis that a few of us have um would be really curious if others in this group agree or or like have other suggestions. Nate Otto: https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-extensions/#credential-schema Credential Type/Schema Registry is this what you're suggesting? Dmitri Zagidulin: Thank you so much uh Sharon that's that's fantastic any other questions and and I by the way I completely agree with you that a uh directory of examples is going to be super important to developers and other stakeholders to see what the state of the art is. Dmitri Zagidulin: And I think uh Nate Otto posted a link on go ahead Nate you're on um. Nate Otto: Oh yeah yeah just uh to mention on that link there is a uh VC uh credential extensions directory which lists specifications um that Define credential types and there's not very many of them so far I was surprised that really there's been a slow start to the community or formalizing various different um. Nate Otto: Schemas for different uh purposes for credentials but I think that we we are starting to see some more popping up and they just haven't yet been added to this uh directory here um and I just got on the cutest A+ 1 plus a thousand to what Sharon said about how users will ask for trust Registries is what they want is the capability to understand that the issuer identity information that's being presented to them is authentic and matches some kind of real world institution users don't necessarily. Nate Otto: Know how that capability is going to be provided they just want that check mark on the uh credential like it exists on um you know like say services like social media websites that offer verification and I think over time the. Nate Otto: Public understanding the consumer level understanding of the capabilities of that trust Mark will grow like for example just watching the drama over the Twitter blue check over years for somehow I got into the my algorithms thought that I wanted to read a lot of articles about the blue check mark which I totally did it was relevant to my interests I guess I clicked on them a few times and so it was really interesting to see that journalists had a pretty robust understanding of how that check mark was provisioned the various different policies under girding it and um we could have a really broad public conversation about the various fine grained texture elements of the Twitter verification ecosystem even though that was only 1 company providing 1 very binary check mark and within the open badges space we are going to have and broader VCU space. Nate Otto: We're going to have a bunch of different issuers we have a bunch of different Registries and hopefully we can be delivering good enough value that the users can start depending on it and learning really about like what. Nate Otto: Is the services that backs up that value whose trust is it that is being um remarked on when we're looking at a verification record of a credential. Dmitri Zagidulin: Someone else questions comments. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh go ahead Phil. PL: Yeah I just wanted to elaborate a little bit on the I think the important discussion that we just had on on the use and value of recommendations and point out that 1 of the things I think that's going to emerge as an interesting question is those kinds of recommendation uh graphs if you will that are public um versus those that are done in a manner that retains um some degree of privacy in the form of a kyc excuse me a form of a a zkp approach where there is a evidence of a recommendation but they only the only information exchanged is that this recommendation has been offered from some uh some anonymous source or some protected Source in the in the Privacy sense um because it is that's actually 1 of The Elements that's been built into the a uh Ira um. PL: First-person trust credentials that um Drummond and Company have been uh advocating recently and I think it's an important question for us to consider as to how public we want and and what circumstances we want these recommendations changed to be totally public versus um um protected in a way that conveys some degree of consistent um endorsement without necessarily disclosing more than needs to be disclosed in that process thanks. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right um we are near the top of the hour. <sharon_leu> Thank you for having me and for all the people who helped! Dmitri Zagidulin: So here's a good place to wrap up Sharon thank you again for talking about the market scan uh really look forward to reading it uh if you want to share how people can get in touch with you if you have questions. <sharon_leu> jff.org/digitalwallets <sharon_leu> sleu@jff.org Dmitri Zagidulin: All right yeah so we've got jff.org digital wallets for more information. Dmitri Zagidulin: And and we've got uh Sharon's email address in chat. Dmitri Zagidulin: All right that'll be all for this week thanks again Sharon thanks everyone uh talk to you all next week cheers.
Received on Tuesday, 25 March 2025 13:52:19 UTC