- From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2025 17:37:31 +0100
- To: Nivas <nivas.cool@gmail.com>
- Cc: public-credentials@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAKaEYhJOYc3uvEY4roOhe_ROvUbY778p4pi5Tjj+z3kwsfjnQA@mail.gmail.com>
ne 23. 3. 2025 v 17:27 odesílatel Nivas <nivas.cool@gmail.com> napsal: > > Regards, > Nivas > > > On Sun, Mar 23, 2025 at 9:28 PM Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> ne 23. 3. 2025 v 16:26 odesílatel Nivas <nivas.cool@gmail.com> napsal: >> >>> Thank you, Melvin, for your positive feedback on the RUBI proposal and >>> for raising insightful questions. I’m glad you see value in the idea, and >>> I’d like to address your queries below. See inline against your questions. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nivas >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 12:11 AM Melvin Carvalho < >>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> út 18. 3. 2025 v 20:17 odesílatel <nivas.cool@gmail.com> napsal: >>>> >>>>> Dear W3C-CCG Community, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I hope you’re doing well. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to share an idea that intersects Self-Sovereign Identity >>>>> (SSI), decentralized governance, and Universal Basic Income (UBI): >>>>> Retroactive Universal Basic Income (RUBI). I have attached a one-page >>>>> explanation of the concept, breaking down the mechanics. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *What is RUBI?* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> RUBI is a framework that proposes a globally governed, open-source >>>>> monetary system where: >>>>> >>>>> - Personhood credentials (SSI-based) ensure UBI eligibility while >>>>> preventing fraud. >>>>> - Democratic governance enables citizens to vote on UBI rates and >>>>> demurrage policies. >>>>> - Retroactive UBI ensures individuals receive compensation based >>>>> on their birthdate, correcting past economic exclusion. >>>>> - Interoperable and competing digital currencies operate with >>>>> open-source governance to prevent speculation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Seeking Community Feedback* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would love to hear your thoughts on any aspect of this concept, >>>>> whether from a technical, governance, economic, or interoperability >>>>> perspective. >>>>> >>>>> Areas of interest include, but are not limited to: >>>>> >>>>> - The feasibility of integrating SSI-based personhood verification >>>>> into such a system. >>>>> - Political possibilities of making such a system come to reality. >>>>> - Design considerations for privacy. >>>>> - Potential alignment with existing decentralized identity >>>>> frameworks or monetary governance models. >>>>> - Broader implications and challenges of a retroactive UBI >>>>> approach within a decentralized ecosystem. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I understand that UBI itself can be a controversial topic, and I >>>>> welcome discussions on its feasibility, having worked with the >>>>> International Movement for Monetary Reform (IMMR) on sovereign monetary >>>>> policies. However, I wanted to keep this conversation focused on the >>>>> identity, governance, and interoperability aspects. If anyone is >>>>> interested, I’d be happy to elaborate on the economic rationale separately. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Why I’m Sharing This Here* >>>>> >>>>> As someone early in my career and transitioning from a technical >>>>> background into public policy, I want to ensure that I take a well-informed >>>>> approach in integrating governance and identity frameworks into broader >>>>> economic systems. I greatly value the experience and insights of this >>>>> community and would appreciate any perspectives—whether on feasibility, >>>>> challenges, or alternative approaches—that could help refine this idea. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would also like to extend special thanks to Manu and Harrison, who >>>>> encouraged me to step forward and participate in this discussion rather >>>>> than hesitating. Their encouragement means a lot. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Seems like a good idea. >>>> >>>> Does it apply only to countries? >>>> >>>> NS: RUBI is designed to be flexible and not limited to nation-states. >>> We can certainly introduce regional RUBIs, which can apply to any >>> participating region- whether a country, a group of countries (e.g., the >>> Eurozone), or even sub-national entities. >>> >> >> Great! >> > > NS: Thank you! > >> >> >>> >>> >>>> It didnt seem obvious why to retroactively do it according to birth >>>> date. >>>> >>> >>> NS: The retroactive design, tied to birthdate, ensures equitable wealth >>> distribution by addressing past economic exclusion. As explained in my >>> response to Manu (NS: Response 4), RUBI currencies are allocated based on >>> the number of days lived—a fair metric that reflects each individual’s >>> lifetime, ensuring those who have lived longer receive compensation for >>> historical inequities. This creates an effect as if RUBI had existed since >>> inception, promoting fairness at a human level. (In simple terms, we are >>> fixing the past as well from the present). >>> >> >> Makes sense. But then what about people that just died, or die during >> application. >> > > NS: Thank you, Melvin, for raising this practical concern—it’s an > important consideration for RUBI’s fairness. RUBI’s digital payment process > is designed to be near-instantaneous, taking only a few seconds via mobile > app authentication with personhood credentials, making the likelihood of > someone passing away just before or during this process negligible. > Payments are calculated based on days lived up to the point of > implementation, ensuring all living individuals at that time are covered. > Additionally, demurrage rates may discourage holding currencies, > incentivizing immediate use or transfer, further minimizing such concerns. > I’d welcome your thoughts on additional implementation details to enhance > RUBI’s fairness. > >> >> >>> >>>> Does it discriminate against people that do not join the system in such >>>> a way as to make it unfair? >>>> >>> >>> NS: RUBI aims to be inclusive, but I acknowledge the fairness challenge >>> for non-participants, as noted in Scenario 4. Regions or individuals not >>> joining the system (e.g., due to geopolitical constraints) can’t claim >>> RUBI, which raises equity concerns. Scenario 2.2 mitigates this by >>> collaborating with the World Bank’s ID4D initiative to include undocumented >>> individuals (e.g., refugees) through alternative proofing, ensuring broader >>> access. The long-term vision is to scale adoption globally, reducing >>> exclusion over time. >>> >> >> I see this as problematic. Because those that are for example illiterate >> or the most vulnerable in society have increased likelihood of inclusion >> possibly corrupting the whole system. >> > > NS: Could you give me some examples of what scenarios of corruption you > foresee, so that we can design this fool-proof? > I mean people with mental health problems. People without internet (for example my sister doesnt have internet), people that cant afford a phone. Homeless. The elderly. People who are alone. People without access to information. It seems to me that this class is more unlikely to be participate than a tech savvy trader trying to get the max. > >> >>> >>>> Did you think about a system where groups could get together and >>>> provide themselves with a self-issued UBI then grow the group? >>>> >>> >>> NS: But how do we ensure the accuracy of birth dates in this system, >>> which is crucial for RUBI to work effectively? >>> >> >> So we need a system for sybil resistance. Possibly social verification. >> Im not 100% sold on backdating it to birth, it seems an arbitrary rule (not >> saying it's wrong). I can see the fairness. But I also see the fairness >> at starting upon an agreed upon, well-publicized date. >> > > > NS: I will tell you the exact problem that will happen when you fix it on > a well-publicized date. One party may feel it is extremely unfair because > they were born way earlier, and this recent date is unfair giving them > reduced payments, whereas a younger person will be very happy with such a > rule as they get more share of the pie. The logic behind using birthdate is > to provide the fair share of the pie (no less, no high, just fair). This > makes sure there are not too many currencies created of the same type, > similar to what happened in the crypto world. > >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Nivas Sivaprakasam >>>>> Exploring SSI & Monetary Reform for Global Inclusion >>>>> >>>>> Nivas Sivaprakasam | LinkedIn >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/nivas-sivaprakasam-57972128/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 12:11 AM Melvin Carvalho < >>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> út 18. 3. 2025 v 20:17 odesílatel <nivas.cool@gmail.com> napsal: >>>> >>>>> Dear W3C-CCG Community, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I hope you’re doing well. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to share an idea that intersects Self-Sovereign Identity >>>>> (SSI), decentralized governance, and Universal Basic Income (UBI): >>>>> Retroactive Universal Basic Income (RUBI). I have attached a one-page >>>>> explanation of the concept, breaking down the mechanics. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *What is RUBI?* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> RUBI is a framework that proposes a globally governed, open-source >>>>> monetary system where: >>>>> >>>>> - Personhood credentials (SSI-based) ensure UBI eligibility while >>>>> preventing fraud. >>>>> - Democratic governance enables citizens to vote on UBI rates and >>>>> demurrage policies. >>>>> - Retroactive UBI ensures individuals receive compensation based >>>>> on their birthdate, correcting past economic exclusion. >>>>> - Interoperable and competing digital currencies operate with >>>>> open-source governance to prevent speculation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Seeking Community Feedback* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would love to hear your thoughts on any aspect of this concept, >>>>> whether from a technical, governance, economic, or interoperability >>>>> perspective. >>>>> >>>>> Areas of interest include, but are not limited to: >>>>> >>>>> - The feasibility of integrating SSI-based personhood verification >>>>> into such a system. >>>>> - Political possibilities of making such a system come to reality. >>>>> - Design considerations for privacy. >>>>> - Potential alignment with existing decentralized identity >>>>> frameworks or monetary governance models. >>>>> - Broader implications and challenges of a retroactive UBI >>>>> approach within a decentralized ecosystem. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I understand that UBI itself can be a controversial topic, and I >>>>> welcome discussions on its feasibility, having worked with the >>>>> International Movement for Monetary Reform (IMMR) on sovereign monetary >>>>> policies. However, I wanted to keep this conversation focused on the >>>>> identity, governance, and interoperability aspects. If anyone is >>>>> interested, I’d be happy to elaborate on the economic rationale separately. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Why I’m Sharing This Here* >>>>> >>>>> As someone early in my career and transitioning from a technical >>>>> background into public policy, I want to ensure that I take a well-informed >>>>> approach in integrating governance and identity frameworks into broader >>>>> economic systems. I greatly value the experience and insights of this >>>>> community and would appreciate any perspectives—whether on feasibility, >>>>> challenges, or alternative approaches—that could help refine this idea. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would also like to extend special thanks to Manu and Harrison, who >>>>> encouraged me to step forward and participate in this discussion rather >>>>> than hesitating. Their encouragement means a lot. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Seems like a good idea. >>>> >>>> Does it apply only to countries? >>>> >>>> It didnt seem obvious why to retroactively do it according to birth >>>> date. >>>> >>>> Does it discriminate against people that do not join the system in such >>>> a way as to make it unfair? >>>> >>>> Did you think about a system where groups could get together and >>>> provide themselves with a self-issued UBI then grow the group? >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Nivas Sivaprakasam >>>>> Exploring SSI & Monetary Reform for Global Inclusion >>>>> >>>>> Nivas Sivaprakasam | LinkedIn >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/nivas-sivaprakasam-57972128/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>
Received on Sunday, 23 March 2025 16:37:48 UTC