- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 19:14:10 +0000
- To: public-credentials@w3.org
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-03-11/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-03-11/audio.ogg A video recording is also available at: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2025-03-11.mp4 ---------------------------------------------------------------- W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2025-03-11 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Mar&period_year=2025&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date Organizer: Harrison Tang, Kimberly Linson, Will Abramson Scribe: Our Robot Overlords Present: Harrison Tang, Manu Sporny, Erica Connell, Jeff O / HumanOS, Hiroyuki Sano, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), PL, Benjamin Young, Joe Andrieu, Jennie Meier, James Chartrand, Rodrigo, Mahmoud Alkhraishi, Nate Otto, Vanessa, Rob Padula, Will Abramson, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Leo, David I. Lehn, Dmitri Zagidulin, tomj, Nis Jespersen , Greg Bernstein, Geun-Hyung Kim, Andrea D'Intino | Forkbomb BV, Susan Stroud @ Lifequipt, Brian Richter, Nivas, Olvis Gil Ríos Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Welcome everyone to our March 11th ccg call today we will be conducting our quarterly review and we will talk about some work item updates and some ideas that we are going to be uh floating around as chairs that we hope to get the community's input on and see you know an initial response to them and we can talk about implementing them. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Uh Harrison and Will are both with me today and you know uh please feel free to interrupt and if anybody has anything. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: We will. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Will keep be using our queuing system um as a reminder we any substantive contributions to the w3c ccg do require you to have signed our IPR agreement. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um is there anybody who would like to introduce themselves anybody new to our. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Group okay um let's get started with today's agenda then unless anybody has any announcements I'd like to make. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Uh Harrison can you share screen oh man please go ahead. Manu Sporny: Yeah just a few high-level things I I sent this to the mailing list but um uh We've started on. Manu Sporny: Tooling that would allow us to use uh Google meet um and uh record. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Can I cut you off there sorry please Mano there's a section that we will talk through that if that's okay um I appreciate that sorry about that um is there anything else that anybody would like to cover. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay um yes please mano. Manu Sporny: Yeah that was just the the first of a couple um the other items are. Manu Sporny: Um we are now uh meeting regularly reminders the VC API call is later uh today um where we will be kind of testing that New Media infrastructure we'll talk about that later um we are probably going to start having uh meetings around uh render method and uh confidence method uh just to get uh those uh kind of uh cleaned up um we may also start meeting about did key uh because that you know we need to clean that up before it might be proposed as a standard stack at w3c and then um uh every Friday now there's a growing number of people meeting around data integrity and uh. Manu Sporny: Uh BBS uh post Quantum uh unlink signatures uh new types of ZK proof ZK snarks CK Starks um liero uh uh redacted signatures so there's a lot of kind of cryptography uh work um to support kind of the verifiable credentials work that's happening uh on Fridays as well so um I think we'll need to chat with the chairs to figure out how we. Manu Sporny: Get all of these kind of meetings on the on the calendar and um and that sort of thing that's. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yes um we will be hopefully part of our process updates is making sure that that process is easier and more transparent um we don't have an answer to you on that today but may I know if you could just reach out to us we will get them on the calendar ASAP. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you um well did you want to go over the wallet conference announcement. Will Abramson: Oh sure yeah so this is just uh I guess an initial update to the group uh the w3c has been participating with the open wall foundation and a bunch of other groups uh I think they started meeting at Davos and they were talking about wallets and like trying to set up uh. Will Abramson: A for. Will Abramson: Where the discussion could continue um like without it being anyone's patch if that makes sense you know I have trying to be uh vendor neutral if you like and they're looking at arranging a work a workshop or conference in Geneva the first and second of July uh with a focus on wallets to try and convene a bunch of groups like w3c iatf um. Will Abramson: If what Foundation. Will Abramson: And basically you know they want to we want some people to go. Will Abramson: I think the w3c is going to send some of the team contacts I mean I'm really just sharing this is very tensive I don't even have a link to share with you uh so. Will Abramson: So we just wanted to. Will Abramson: Let the community know that this is happening and you know if there is interest um. Will Abramson: In a. <mahmoud_alkhraishi> July 1-2 in Geneva Will Abramson: Then we'll we'll let folks know um as as that becomes more available the WGC potentially has tickets but I don't know how you know this is still in flux I just wanted to let folks know. Will Abramson: So that's being had because I has any comments on the job on the queue. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Uh I think you covered it well and just as a reminder this is July 1st and 2nd in Geneva so this is more of a save the date kind of announcement rather than a. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Here is what you would like to do right. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um the VC working group has just transitioned 7 documents to proposed recommendation that has been approved. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: And the next step is it will go to the advisor committee is there anybody here from that can speak to that a little bit. Manu Sporny: Yeah yeah um yes so exactly what she said Mahmud um uh we have uh successfully uh passed the transition uh phase they should be published as proposed recommendations in 9 days um at that point an announcement will go out to the w3c advisory committee which consists of 400 and I forget what the count is now 450 plus companies um uh and the voting process uh will start on whether or not to make this Global uh standard um at this point we're not expecting any surprises but you know the way these things work almost always there's some kind of uh surprised that no 1 was expecting so um uh the only thing that can happen at this point is you know a w3c member would formally object uh uh to uh the any 1 of the 7 documents um and then that might require. Manu Sporny: Um a formal objection Council to form and figure out if they want to overrule the objection or keep the objection and ask the working group to do more work or whether or not uh the the the standards end up getting published uh as as Global standards so again you know these things have been under development for 3 years you would think that at this point someone would have said something um that that you know would would uh where they've stated it would result in a formal objection but um that's where we are right now so that voting period will be open for probably about a month um it'll be open from like March 20th to you know April 20th. Manu Sporny: And then if it looks like um everything's going fine the final Global recommendations the global standards for those 7 specifications uh will go out um and then the verifiable credential working group will continue uh it's it's chartered work which means maintaining the version 2 you know data model maintaining all the other you know data Integrity VC hosie cozy bitstring status list specifications um and then working on things like finally getting around to render method and confidence method and some of the other things that are are in scope BBS is also 1 of those big things that's still in scope that the working group would would work towards um so I think that's where we are right now. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Awesome thank you mano. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: No 1 else has any other announcements I'd like us to go to the slide deck for today's conversation. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay Harrison can you share a screen please thank you. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Excellent thank you we're going to do a couple of things a little bit differently from the past the first is we're going to have a quick process and communication reminder we're going to talk about the work items and this is what we've always been doing so we're going to go through each work item that is currently live and try and get a status update on it and last but not least we're going to talk about some proposals and upcoming changes that the chairs have and try and get the community's feedback and review on it so for the process of communication reminders. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um if you can go ahead please Harrison and the slide after that please. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Would like to make a quick reminder about the w3c code of conduct it is what is binding on us as a W3 cccg we have had some incidents last year I want to make sure that this is. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Here to buy everybody the goal here is for us to have an open inclusive space that we can all collaborate in and build and we can all Thrive um both of these links are found at the w3c ccg website and the bullet points there are taken straight from the website and they're very straightforward they basically say please be kind please try and work together and please try your best to act in good faith. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um if there are no questions or comments on the process communication reminder we can go ahead to the work. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Uh VC API. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Can someone from the VC API walk us through it please. Manu Sporny: Yeah I can probably take this 1 um so things in green are the new things uh things in Gray are like the things we reported on last time so um the key highlights so the verifiable credentials API is an API that helps you manage uh the verifiable credentials life cycle that includes everything from uh issuance uh to holding to verification to workflows and exchanges and a variety of things there uh it it also includes the verifiable presentation request uh specification and just general kind of incubation of those activities um uh just as a reminder to everyone uh it also supports oid 4 Vesey and oid 4 VP meaning that a verifiable credential API is a is a super set of oidc oid 4V CI I know ID 4 VP so it supports those protocols as well um uh for doing verifiable credential delivery um this. Manu Sporny: Was used as a 1 of the optional ways of demonstrating um uh uh interop with the verifiable credential uh test Suites we have 25 Implement at this point that Implement some set subset of the VCA Pi certainly not all of it uh but definitely issuance and and verification uh Services uh that's up 9 from the last time we reported on this which I guess was last last quarter so a bunch of new implementations largely driven by the verifiable credentials going to um going to propose recommendation. <dmitri_zagidulin> (the DCC open source issuer suite also uses VC-API fwiw) Manu Sporny: Uh the other updates here is that there are production deployments of this thing so it's not like you know some you know academic you know spec writing exercise these are deployed in production for systems like true age they're deployed in production at California DMV uh they're deployed in production for the open Credit open source um uh verifier uh in most recently they've been adopted by the retail sector uh as a way of exchanging verifiable credentials for retail use cases which include things like um uh Loyalty cards uh payments um uh uh uh uh age verification credentials um identity credentials uh things of that nature so and that's at a standards level that's not a you know we've got a couple of retailers playing around with it it's been adopted as a basis for retail standards um. Manu Sporny: We as you know as everyone has heard over the past kind of year uh we proposed at W3 CT pack to take this standards track um uh in got you know positive feedback on that uh the plane is to propose it to go standards track and Q2 of this year right after the verifiable credential working group publishes its current set of specs uh there'll be a proposal for a charter update to include um VC API and VPR and things like that um and that's so that you know we can ing include it in the digital credential uh API uh I think that's it uh as far as an update um for this work item. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you Mana uh next slide is going to be on the VC working group test Suite I don't know if Benjamin is on here. Benjamin Young: Yeah I'm here. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Can you please walk us through it. Benjamin Young: Yeah sure so this is uh primarily just a list of test Suites that we have um through the working group so the core of ecdm 2.0 spec the various data integrity and crypto Suite. Benjamin Young: Bit string. Benjamin Young: Status list and the Josie cozy and VC Json schema spec um and if these slides go out later there's obviously links to all of those if you can go to the next slide Harrison. Benjamin Young: Uh this shows implementers across the board with the green numbers being the new ones since the last time we did this update. Benjamin Young: We have well surpassed the the minimum number of required implementers um for all the. Benjamin Young: Top group of specs we have 3 for housing cozy uh VC Json schema still lacks implementation so if there's anyone. Benjamin Young: Room who has a VC Json schema spec and just hasn't taken the time to integrate with that test Suite um please do but we're very pleased with the the turnout for implementations and how everyone's done on the test Suite has been has been really Stellar um I think I've got 1 more slide here and. Benjamin Young: And these this slide was not in the last update that we did there are ccg level test Suites um there's the did key method which is um. Benjamin Young: I think they only did method currently maintained by the ccg it has a a test Suite um. Benjamin Young: Now and I think it's mostly sat idle for the last year so but it does have sufficient implementations should It Go recommendation track and as you can see from the VC API issuer and verifier test Suite. Benjamin Young: List of implementers. Benjamin Young: 2 Test Suites have uh. Benjamin Young: Li massive coverage since only 2 are required um there's a good a good list on both of those so um those are also integrable and the same way that the WG ones are they follow the same pattern there's a Json document you describe your implementation and and tag which uh test Suite you want to have run against your implementation um I'm happy to help anyone on board for any of these test Suites. Benjamin Young: That's great to hear. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you man um as someone who has had to integrate with these test Suites it was a very very straightforward process and I really appreciate all the amount of work and you know all the hard work you did to make it that way that's really really great job um next up is the data integration 2.0 incubation data Integrity sorry um and this is the Friday calls is that right Mana. Manu Sporny: Yes that's correct Muhammad um yeah so this thing this call is kind of growing so it it started on Fridays as a way for like the data Integrity spec editors in the verifiable credential working group to just work on things specific to data Integrity um but over time people mentioned that you know they want to talk about like next-gen BBS stuff they want to talk about you know Anonymous rate limiting selective redaction Lehigh so the the call has now grown to like anyone that's interested in kind of the Next Generation crypto that we would try and standardize through verifiable credential working group or some other you know w3c working group more focused on data Integrity um so the things in scope are like Quantum Safe digital signatures um uh that uh work is being uh led by Andrea at uh Fork bomb and dine um there are a number of other people that are really interested in in. Manu Sporny: You know adding the fips stuff that's a fairly straightforward spec um uh there's been new work that will has done on uh Shore uh signatures sep 2566 K1 signature so that work uh is included and we're starting to incubate like some pretty interesting things as well that that have a pretty fast track through so we're finalizing things like unlink disclosure using BBS um specifically the blind BBS in pseudonym BBS work um that work is primarily designed to protect holders from credential um uh cloning attacks or protect verifiers from credential cloning attacks so blind BBS protects holders from uh uh credit people stealing their credentials and using them on their behalf and uh uh suit. Manu Sporny: From someone having stolen somebody else's credential or someone having resold their their credential on a on a gray Market um from uh attacking verifiers uh so again those are critical to like an unlink uh ecosystem. Manu Sporny: More recently um uh um uh we've had some um uh contributions from uh people in Google and the Privacy sandbox around Anonymous rate limiting in using BBS uh to do that uh that's that's they're they're like all kinds of super interesting things that you can do with that um like um um proof of personhood like right you know real solutions for proof of personhood where you can engage in an unlink but there's a rate limiting that that protects against uh civils in a in a network um uh we've got the Singaporean um government um with their selective redaction technique uh that we're taking a look at trying to figure out what Primitives we can standardize their there's new stuff around ecdsa leher which allows you to do unlink using traditional crypto. Manu Sporny: Photography it's. Manu Sporny: Complicated and computationally intense but it's to the point where you can do some of these computations on a mobile phone um and we found that the the solutions there are more elegant than uh doing it on an mdl or an MDOC it just so happens that the way we're doing data Integrity um atomizes the statements in a way that makes liero more uh uh computationally uh lightweight uh when applied to W3 cvc's and and um and data integrity and then of course you know the the the the. Manu Sporny: Great New Horizon that we're marching towards is unlink post-quantum schemes for this stuff so um we've done uh actually you know Greg in in the in the in the in the diff you know applied cryptography group have done some really great work creating repeatable Primitives um that we're using in the prequel uh cryptography that. Manu Sporny: Believe are also uh potentially reusable in post-quantum schemes so the good news here is we don't have to start over from scratch we think there's some uh stuff that we can reuse that that stuff's like you know still I don't know 2 years off plus but it's important that we do the work because um of the Potential Threat from a actual large scale quantum computer um I think that's it for the update there we need Fridays as um Muhammad mentioned. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: A couple of questions on my end here the first is um when you say these things are being incubated at in that group do you believe the out what do you believe the outcome of that incubation will be we're talking about ccg work items are we talking about broader things. Manu Sporny: Uh ccg work items prymrr will be the primary output um so they're either already a ccg work items like the DI Quantum safe thing I think I don't know where is but I think well you intend on bringing it to ccg and then the other things are things that will either grow onto the existing specs at VCW or ccg or like the ecdsa liero thing or the unlink Quantum scheme will probably result in new ccg incubated specs. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: That's awesome to hear and sorry to put you on the on the spot but this morning I saw that hqc was announced as the winner of the nist pqc competition do you think that's going to be something that would come up in this group or is this something that will be talked about in other locations. Manu Sporny: You are more up-to-date on the news than I am my friend uh. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: This is this morning or maybe like an hour ago so. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay fair enough. Manu Sporny: Yeah I know I know I I haven't read the I haven't read it yet so I can't speak to it maybe somebody else from the data Integrity group could speak to it. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: That's okay we can we can cover it at a later time but thank you man for the update this was wonderful. <harrison_tang> you are too up-to-date, mahmoud Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um next up we have the VC render method and I see we have Dimitri online Dimitri do you want to give us an update on it. <harrison_tang> i still have yet to catch up on my emails Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Harrison if you can move to that slide please thank you. Dmitri Zagidulin: I'm not the best person uh to do the update on it in that oh you're talking about Vashon not VC. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So for the VC education if you could give us an update that would be wonderful I don't think we have anything on the slides for it though. Dmitri Zagidulin: Got it yeah so um uh VC education task force uh has a standing call on Mondays uh at 11:00 am Eastern uh we essentially talk about Advanced implementation topics uh and like data models and protocols in the area of verified presentation sorry verify what credentials in the. Dmitri Zagidulin: Vertical so uh we we were 1 of the first ones to hit up against. Dmitri Zagidulin: Need for VC rendering uh we're currently uh working on a uh year-long project with digital credentials Consortium credential engine and uh big handful of other companies on. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh we did a comparison of or rather the the issue registry project did a comparison of um the half a dozen existing issue registry specs uh implementing a registry running it for a number of months to report out. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh we also do a lot of um sort of community coordination uh between like Europe and the US in terms of data models 1 of the things that uh we're working on is uh we we helped the 1 Ed Tech uh standards body with um open badges version 3 credentials which are widely used in the education space. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh so that's that's what we do in general so like if you're if you're a credential implementation team uh most of the calls will usually be interesting to you because uh we're working on uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: Like fairly big open source sometimes closed Source sometimes uh deployments and implementations of our fiber credential plus education has its own uh really interesting vertical that make some credential things easier and others harder uh this this first quarter of the year has been fairly quiet uh been a been a lot of um uh holidays and like last month and cancellations uh but we're anticipating uh like the next to this this this coming quarter focusing on so updates on the issue registry projects. Dmitri Zagidulin: Report out from uh various open source Forks of wallets that uh universities are trying out. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh continuing work on um the VC render method with the with the emphasis of rendering verify credentials as PDFs. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh and uh report out on our uh. Dmitri Zagidulin: Uh Community liaison with the human resources standards bodies such as HR open uh where we're helping um the development of resume verifiable credentials so that's that's us in a nutshell. <tomj> i noticer that the ISO 18013 working papers are now publiic. https://github.com/ISOWG10/ISO-18013 Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Awesome thank you so much that that was a very good overview um next up is the VC render method um menu please. <greg_bernstein> See https://csrc.nist.gov/pubs/ir/8545/final, HQC is a new PQC KEM (key encapsulation mechanism). This is not a signature algorithm so would not be used to secure VCs. Manu Sporny: Yeah I can probably take this 1 and not noting that like what Demetri said like we need to get together with the VC edu folks to make sure that we've got all the PDF renderings in scope so that you know whatever we end up trying to uh standardized at the verifiable credential working group works for VC edu and the various other Market verticals so um uh the green stuff is a new stuff it says that the incubation finalization meetings will start this week uh next week uh not this week unfortunately um uh there are multiple organizations around the world that are uh working on rendering so again Singapore um uh Cambodia um Australia have the you know open attestation style renderers so there's 1 approach there um uh we've got other implementations like on the verifiable credential playground. Manu Sporny: Uh that. <mahmoud_alkhraishi> Thanks Greg! Manu Sporny: Um as rendering templates as Demetri mentioned uh PDF uh is another uh very um uh uh uh strong kind of output format for render method um uh and so I think we've we have enough experimentation and incubation uh to write the first version of something that we can standardize um just as a reminder to everyone the um VC working group is currently chartered to finalize this work so once we get to kind of a decision in the decisions probably going to look pretty simple in the in the early days we're probably just going to take like allow SVG or PDF or any other type of kind of you know data model or sorry a serialization that you can put curly braces double curly braces in and then the double curly braces will expand to uh properties in the verifiable credential so at the bottom of the screen. Manu Sporny: You can see. Manu Sporny: The current output for VC render method is we have an example of a driver's license an example of a certificate of naturalization and an example of a first responder credential uh these are all things that have some level of piloting uh behind them um and so again with the the stuff that Demetri mentioned that bced used been working on we think we've got more than enough to to put together useful version 1 of spec for render method um we'll start meeting ideally next week around 12 pm we don't expect there to need us to need very many meetings to come to consensus but you know how these things go maybe we will uh that's it for render method and I can do the next slide as well um Mahmood. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Next slide is going to be about the verify the credential barcodes. Manu Sporny: Yes so um. <tomj> please post link to bar code specs Manu Sporny: Not much has changed here other than these things have gone through pilot phases um unfortunately can't talk about the you know agencies doing a pilot phases but they're big um and then uh we are expecting these things to go to production um sometime Q2 of 2025 so in the next 3 months um we have multiple implementations of it um the specs do need a little bit of updating and and work but um what the the net net here is we've been able to take a w3c verifiable credential in compress it down to between 185 to 200 bytes um input that into uh driver's licenses um uh uh and as well as like identity cards uh that use Machinery readable zones that's the stuff that you see on passports that's the example on the bottom so on the top you'll see a driver's license that has an embedded verify. Manu Sporny: Fiable credential. Manu Sporny: Um uh at the bottom uh you have in uh employment authorization document that has a digitally signed QR code that um uh protects the information on the back of the card um which can be scanned by a a Machine Vision um again the plan is to propose this to go to standards track uh because we've got multiple implementations um that are interrupting right now and um. Manu Sporny: And to put it you know in a in a new VC working group Charter uh that's it for that item. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Quick question on that please um you I don't know if you I think you mentioned a lot I think I may have missed it but our QR codes in or out of scope for this work. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Scope okay thank you. Manu Sporny: Well so I mean I guess the question is like uh. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Basically the same yeah. Manu Sporny: QR codes in scope for the VC barcodes work uh yes I think so because they're like a slight variation yeah I mean like the encoding slightly different but I think we could probably just fit them in the same specification um. Manu Sporny: 2 Did there are 2 different specs right now but I think what we're trying to do is figure out and this will be a part of the incubation discussion is like do we just collapse it into 1 document because they're all just fundamentally 2D barcodes and it really doesn't matter if you use pdf417 or QR code or Matrix or pick any other you know favorite barcode format. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Do you believe there's going to be any changes to the VC barcodes prior to Q2 2025. Manu Sporny: Um it's it all depends on feedback so I Muhammad I I would expect. Manu Sporny: There's stuff that's going to be shipped to production and it's there's a question on does that become a legacy thing that we talked about in the spec or do we just not change things um you know how these things work like we have to be open to changes across the board um that's what the standards process is about right so. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: But you know expect any significant things. <tomj> is this the working doc https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-barcodes/#:~:text=Abstract,cards%20using%20standard%20printing%20processes. Manu Sporny: No no no we don't expect significant changes um we we expect new people to show up with new use cases that might need to extend what's in there right now. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you that's wonderful. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um we have a question about if this is the working DOC for it would you be able to send a link to that menu in the chat. Manu Sporny: Yeah that uh is it I believe. Manu Sporny: Yeah that's that's the current specification. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Excellent thank you. Manu Sporny: And it and it does you know it does not talk about the QR code stuff the QR code stuff. Manu Sporny: We are waiting on our uh pilot partners and production Partners to make press announcements before we can announce that spec. Manu Sporny: Um I. Manu Sporny: Will note that the V the Respec VC specification tool will already generate uh QR code based VCS. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: That's really nice to hear. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you man uh next up is on verifiable issuers and verifiers. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Do we have Isaac or David on. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Or anyone who could speak to this working item. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay I guess we will Circle back and follow up with Isaac and David out of bond. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Next up is the did linked resources that's Alex and anchor. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Do we have. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Of them on. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Does anyone else can anyone else speak to the working item working group item. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay uh thank you. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um that's it for the updates on the working group items thank you everyone um the next is an outline of some of the proposals that we sat down as chairs and thought of and. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: The driving Vision behind it is what I want to talk about first then I'd like to walk through a quick overview of the proposals I know we only have 10 ish minutes left. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So we just did a quick ad hoc uh chair vote and we think it would probably be a good idea to do a more in-depth conversation about it next week as well. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: What we're going to do is today talk about the ideas quickly let everybody you know marinate on it for a week and we will talk about it more in depth next week um. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: The driving goal behind this is to bake things the first is we want the ccg to be more inclusive and easier for new people to join as someone who joined 5-ish years ago I remember how intimidating it was to actually try and learn everything there was to learn about this space and how hard it was to write your first specification right and I want to give a big shout out to all the people who helped me out with writing our first uh spec and 1 of our goals is to make that easier for everybody we would like to make it easier to create and build working group items and for that reason we thought there's a few different things we would like to do the first is to facilitate a more educational space and make it easier for everybody to communicate with each other right we have a lot of really really good. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: A lot of people have very well-formed opinions and very good reasons for them that they got there through a lot of trial and error through a lot of you know sitting down and thinking and working things out and we want to explore a few different concepts the so the second big reason why we want to do this is because having talked to everybody here and having been to a few conferences I know that my favorite about part of a conference is the water cooler you know chat where you get to talk to people and you get a lot of stuff done really right and so those 2 are the big driving forces behind some of these proposals. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: The first. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Debate format a lot of us have really good strong ideas about things we think it would be a really good idea to have people debate some Concepts and some ideas a very quick example of that would be um Registries should we do them yes or no I know some members of the community are very very strongly opinionated on that and I know just even proposing that we'll have Joe probably want to you know chop my head off but. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: People don't. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Why Joe holds that strong opinion right unless Joe tells them and I think Joe's got a lot of experience on this and he's done well I'm sorry for singling you out Joe but it's just the first thing that came to mind but if we have yeah. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So if if we have a place for people to explore that it's a very good way for us to all learn where we don't derail um working group meetings that other people are having write 1 of the big problems that I saw was in the registry's conversation that happened in 1 of the VC working group meetings was. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Joe wasn't able to articulate a lot of his ideas because we like it was going to quote unquote derail the conversation right and I feel like that's not that's the thing that we as a community are missing and that's the thing that I want us to try and get into and so hopefully a debate format would let us have those ideas right so that's proposal number 1. <kim_duffy> So we all debate Joe? Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Puzzle number 2 is the breakout rooms which is a we all the video sounds like a fun plan yes um the the breakout rooms is a second idea where we would all be able to have the water cooler chats so it'd be something that would happen maybe once a quarter maybe something twice a year where we each have a room we each have little breakout uh we each have a theme and work within breakout rooms and try and talk about why that thing works why that doesn't work out to get it done it's a way to hopefully get people's ideas of what are your biggest pain points and how can we you know Foster that idea exchange right. <manu_sporny> I'll hold Joe's spit bucket, talk him up, and spray water on him from time to time. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: The third idea we had was um exploring an educational series and this is not VCU this is VC 101 right what or not just VCS this is more. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: How do. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: We have decentralized identity verifiable credentials essential identifiers in general why do we do the things that we are doing and what are we really talking about I know from the people who have joined um generally uh like the people from my company specifically who have tried to get into the ccg how much they've struggled to get in because they're just not enough resources so we're hopefully exploring uh exploring making a separate call that would just be hey this is a VC 101 and you can ask all your questions we can walk through this is what you want to do and so on and so forth right and I'm looking for volunteers or maybe resources or anything like that for this and what to do and what not to do as well if anybody has any um ideas there. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Um the last item I would like to talk about is the jitsi zoom and Main and here menu if you would like to walk through your updates I would appreciate that. Manu Sporny: It sure thing so um this has been kind of a question that comes up um uh fairly regularly over our past like 11 years um rather than go go get into kind of the historical details um uh I'll note that you know seeing this discussion come up again um kind of prompted me to try to see where the most recent kind of technology is uh specifically around Google meet I've tried this with zoom before and it's been 3 times a failure because of the way they've they've written some of their apis I tried Google meet this time uh which means that it is possible for us. Manu Sporny: With Google meet record the meetings transcribe the meetings and then uh to some of us it's really important that we archive our meetings external to. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/meetings <mahmoud_alkhraishi> for the records Manu Sporny: Or Zoom or whatever to make sure that we don't lose our record if if folks uh you know know like we we have records going back to 2014 every single call that's been you know a a standing call that's been recorded we have history going back um uh 11 years at this point um and that's that's important uh not only from kind of a library science historical perspective but it's also really important to some of the companies that operate in the space to make sure that they have proof If someone were to inject a patent um a submarine patent into the discussion um it's also a good way to ensure that if there's any kind of bullying uh or um uh anti-competitive Behavior happening I'd kind of throws cold water on on that kind of stuff so archiving um is is another uh kind of useful thing so uh I noted on the mailing list that uh there is a tool now um. Manu Sporny: That will. Manu Sporny: More or less what our current infrastructure does it's a little more lame in that we don't have real time stuff we don't have the advanced queuing system we don't have bridging to IRC which some people care about uh and most importantly it is totally not in open source platform we're going to be using it'll be moving over to a proprietary system but I think we end up saving um the things that matter you know the most over over the long term which is a record um of our meetings the the other thing that these tools do is that they fully automate we had partial automation before. Manu Sporny: But the new tool fully automates the process basically the chairs schedule a meeting um and then people just show up and they talk and they run the meeting and all scribing all attendees the recordings everything is auto archived in Auto publish to the mailing list um after it happens so uh that is what we've been trying to get to for like 11 years now it is. Manu Sporny: You know we I think it works we are going to guinea pig the the VC API and the dating Integrity folks through it over the next week uh and then report back uh to to folks again I you know anyway we we have the capability uh if folks want to take it it is up to the chairs and the community to have the discussion on the direction we want to go that's it. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you Mano uh I will note that I have seen and I know from you and from other people on the ccg mailing list some push back on this idea right on the idea of moving to a centralized provider and. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: When we talked about this as the chairs we want to make sure that this is a thing that is as easy as possible for as many people as possible with the idea that we want to make it more inclusive and open and. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: And fine for not great for everybody to use right and we hear you on the centralization aspects and we do not intend to do this by Fiat or anything like that alright this is going to be a conversation with the broader community and if anybody feels 1 way or the other please make yourself heard please make it clear where you stand and hopefully we could uh make the you know transition or not but we are hoping to make a decision hopefully soon um we uh please go ahead Kim. Geun-Hyung Kim: Yeah um so I love I love that you guys are uh in gals are revisiting the um sort of like to 0.1 I like that you're making it easier to get involved and then also the things about these sort of obscure philosophical debates that probably people jump in on and don't get to hear so I love that you're rethinking everything and I think that's what this community needs um also support making this more inclusive um you know easier to join I think um also lean towards menu preferences of open tools open platforms but I I think the main thing is um yeah whatever is maintainable for the current shares the 1 thing that I I think Manu mentioned it and he mentioned it in the email but like as someone who used to maintain the um the various meeting minute public. Geun-Hyung Kim: In the sort of Rube Goldberg of um you know tracking participants and all that other stuff you need to sort of. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: :+1: Geun-Hyung Kim: Make sure clean IPR happens um I think that can be a non-trivial amount of work doing that transition even so just wanted to make sure people think through that and you know identify someone on the hook um yeah. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Absolutely Kim um thank you for that. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I will know we have 3 minutes left and what I would like to do next week is for us to go through these separate ideas and ask people for input on maybe debate ideas or how they want to do the format or anything like that um do we like the breakout rooms how often do we want to do them the educational series if anybody has any ideas tips of or anything like that or anyone wants to volunteer. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: And obviously the migration to a different tool um we'll start with the migration to the next week so we can talk about and have everybody's ideas aired out and hopefully we will get to the other items afterwards does anybody have anything else they would like to bring up about any of these ideas. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Or does. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Anyone have any. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'd like to share and we can talk about next. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you everyone for your time and we'll talk next week.
Received on Wednesday, 12 March 2025 19:14:20 UTC