[MINUTES] VCs for Education 2025-07-14

W3C Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Meeting Summary
(2025-07-14)

*Topics Covered:*

   -

   *Recent Events Feedback:* Discussion focused on feedback from several
   recent events:
   - *Digital Education Stakeholder Forum (Brussels):* A link to the
      recording was shared.
      - *Warsaw Micro Credential Summit:* Key takeaways included the need
      for better alignment between Open Badges and ELM standards,
ongoing work on
      Open Badges 3 and ELM extensions, and positive feedback from the European
      Commission. Discussions highlighted the interrelation between open batch
      extensions and national requirements, particularly in Europe (e.g., the
      European Council recommendation on micro-credentials).
      - *Digital Credentials Consortium (DCC) Summit:* The summit focused
      on the future direction of the DCC and included discussions on trust,
      interoperability, and the challenges of aligning various standards and
      protocols (e.g., MDOC). A presentation on wallet standards
highlighted the
      complexities of interoperability. The summit also involved discussions
      about the role of trust, security, and surveillance in digital
credentials.
      An education-focused pre-conference was also held.
      - *Global Digital Credentials and Global Governance of Digital
      Credentials (GDC):* Discussions included the DCC's work on trust
      models, higher education's use of VCs, and interoperability challenges.
   -

   *Interoperability and Standardization:* Significant discussion
   surrounded interoperability issues across different standards, protocols
   (including the differences between the ED EU community's implementations
   and more centralized approaches), and security models. Concerns were raised
   about the potential for centralization and the implications for
   decentralization in credential design and architecture.
   -

   *Future Work Items:* Participants expressed a desire for collaborative
   work items to address identified challenges. Suggestions included:
   - Creating a comprehensive list of education-related initiatives using
      verifiable credentials, along with their alignment and interoperability
      capabilities.
      - Identifying high-impact use cases for verifiable credentials in
      education, focusing on the implications of centralization vs.
      decentralization.
      - Developing a resource (e.g., spreadsheet or markdown table)
      cataloging projects, their supported protocols, credential formats, and
      practical interoperability experiences.

*Key Points:*

   - A strong need for improved interoperability between different
   standards and protocols (Open Badges, ELM, MDOC, etc.) was repeatedly
   emphasized.
   - The potential for centralization versus decentralization in VC
   implementations is a major concern and a key differentiator for adoption.
   - There's significant interest in collaborative work items to improve
   the understanding and implementation of verifiable credentials in
   education, possibly including a survey of high impact use cases and an
   inventory of existing projects and their interoperability capabilities.
   - The group wants to find ways to better engage with a broader
   international community, considering different time zones.

Text:
https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-vcs-for-education-2025-07-14.md

Video:
https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-vcs-for-education-2025-07-14.mp4
*kte-hamg-bpj (2025-07-14 10:57 GMT-4) - Transcript* *Attendees*

Alex Higuera, Colin's Notetaker, David Ward, Dmitri Zagidulin, Eric
Shepherd, Geun-Hyung Kim, Hiroyuki Sano, Ildiko Mazar, JeffO - HumanOS,
Kerri Lemoie, Phillip Long, Sharon Leu, Stuart Freeman, Ted Thibodeau Jr,
Xavi Aracil
*Transcript*

Xavi Aracil: Hello. How are you?

Ildiko Mazar: You bit hot but so far we're very close. So, if you don't
mind, we'll wait a couple more minutes.
00:05:00

Xavi Aracil: Thank you.

Ildiko Mazar: Hello. Good.

Phillip Long: Hello, it is how are you?

Ildiko Mazar: How are you?

Phillip Long: I'm thank you. I see is there smiling away Hey babies.

Ildiko Mazar: It's all good. we wait a couple more minutes if everybody's
okay with that. Although I think we have enough people amongst the
participants who could cover quite a few of the recent events but let's see
if anybody else is joining us. Hello Alex is here.

Alex Higuera: Yes.

Ildiko Mazar: Okay, let's get started then.

Ildiko Mazar: So good morning or good afternoon depending on where you are.
welcome to today's the W3C verifiable credentials for education task force
This is Monday the 14th of July and we can start with the usual
housekeeping items. Anyone can participate in these calls. However, all
substantive contributions to any CCG work items must originate from members
with full IP agreements signed. You can find links to link to this in the
meeting invites and you have to have a W3C account to record one to
register one and see the resources. please note that these meetings are
recorded and the minutes are u produced by robots and the meeting minutes
are automatically generated and sent shortly after the calls.

Ildiko Mazar: and the archives are available in our GitHub. If you want to
speak please feel free to raise your hand and add yourself to the queue and
please try to be brief so that others can ask questions as well. Same about
reflections to maximize the time for the conversation and the reports
introductions and reintroductions. Do we have anybody in the call who is
new or hadn't been for a while who would like to introduce themselves
please this is the time to take the floor and if nobody's new I don't see
any new names then moving on to today's topic which is very loosely
reporting about recent events we have cancelled the last few calls because
most of us were

Ildiko Mazar: on the road attending various events since about mid June.
And hello Kerry. And we would like to have those of you who attended these
events to give us some of your feedback on these events. Starting in June,
we had a digital education stakeholder forum in Brussels on the 24th of
June, but Simona, who could report about this, is not in the call. He's on
his way to Singapore, but I can paste into the chat the link to the event
if you're interested in watching the recording.

Ildiko Mazar: anything else that happened in June that somebody would like
to tell us about I think the silences no but we did have another event
still in June and I will prompt people don't worry that took place in
Warsaw Poland at the Warso Micro Credential Summit between the 25th and the
26th of June and there is Nate Otto in the call. He was there Chavi and Tim
from one tech were there. it was a very good event.
00:10:00

Ildiko Mazar: Unfortunately as per usual with quite a few parallel sessions
one of the strengths was the technical strand but there was also a policy
and the labor strength. I don't know which sessions you have been to Chavi
but if you would like to say a few words about …

Ildiko Mazar: what your takeaways were from the point of view of the open
batch standard that would be appreciated.

Xavi Aracil: Yeah,…

Xavi Aracil: Sure. Yeah. I was there because I was presenting at that was
the technical track and I was presenting open batch 3 and how to align to
national requirements.

Ildiko Mazar: It runs.

Xavi Aracil: So I think I made a track with Ilico and I forget the name
from surf in the Netherlands that call that they are France they are
working on edatch which is an open batch implementation and that particular
track was interesting because there was a typical discussion questions
especially in Europe about the coexistence between open batches and EM and
can I what not to choose. So the fun thing was that I made my first
presentation Iligo when after and the Q\&A session was basically together
because in my session there were questions for me and ILGO and in IGO
session were question for Ilico and me.

Xavi Aracil: So I mean that shows that there is the need to a better
alignment between the two and that's hopefully what we are trying to
achieve together. the conference was two days long. They are doing quite a
public project about educational batch platform people from I think it's
the educational network.

Xavi Aracil: No educational research institute in Poland. I know that
Michael I too bad full name but I don't remember the name of Mik I know
that maybe you will know him already. It's Mik Novakoski was one of the
organizers of the event which was weight event three parallel tracks
standards technology and public policies unfortunately I could be all in
the technical one but very interesting sessions very good audience I think
that was very good company so I mean I miss some people from this group but
Simony there Ilico was

Xavi Aracil: What else? I forgot from this group.

Xavi Aracil: No, I can't.

Ildiko Mazar: Colleen Duke from KICNN.

Xavi Aracil: According to Yeah.

Ildiko Mazar: Yeah, I would like to echo what you said, I really enjoyed
being asked the questions. We were sitting next to each other and the
questions were pretty much directed to the both of us as…

Ildiko Mazar: if inquiring how well the collaboration between the two
standards is progressing.

Ildiko Mazar: And one of the highlights for me as well was remember when we
were discussing the extensions and you said that open repository for any
users to publish their extensions and…

Xavi Aracil: Yeah. Yeah.

Ildiko Mazar: everything was so interrelated and…

Ildiko Mazar: what France was talking about and surf already has their
extensions because they want to be compliant with the European Council
recommendation on micro credentials that has this very neat short list of
compulsory and…

Xavi Aracil: Yeah. Yeah.

Ildiko Mazar: optional properties which means that they want to obviously
incorporate those compulsory properties but there isn't a property for all
of those in open batch. So they're creating their own extensions.
00:15:00

Ildiko Mazar: Elm already has everything covered natively.

Ildiko Mazar: So we had this idea that maybe at some point next time we
meet we could work on some specifically ELM extensions that by nature would
cover these fields from the council recommendation are completely aligned
with ELM and could be an approved or endorsed or…

Xavi Aracil: No, no,…

Ildiko Mazar: yeah extension for that would be a very nice step towards
better interoperability and…

Xavi Aracil: Yeah. Yeah.

Ildiko Mazar: serve at least the European community who are very concerned
about misalignment.

Xavi Aracil: Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to solve few questions on the chat. So,
self extensions are currently in open batches too. They are adding more I
think there were 17 extension that tries to cover all the required fields
from ELM.

Ildiko Mazar: Perfect.

Xavi Aracil: They are working on upgrading to open batches 3. Also the
Polish national the batch platform it's based in open batches 2 but also
they are upgrading to open batches 3 and also adding some ELM data. So our
goal with those projects within one tech is try to follow the best
practices to make this open batch extension for ELM and…

Xavi Aracil: trying to collect in whatever the open batch expansion
registry sorry or even as a profile of open batches but that's the midterm
goal. Yeah.

Ildiko Mazar: And something just a flavor for Europe.

Ildiko Mazar: We had a representative from SAPOP which is a part of the
European Commission. they were very pleased to see the work ongoing and
they really encouraged us to do something that they're doing anyway to make
sure that the credentials are as much as possible focusing on learning
outcomes and…

Xavi Aracil: Take away.

Ildiko Mazar: related skills. So it was very nice to see that the
commission wants something that they're doing anyway. So it's just nice to
see this alignment with the official hierarchy here in Europe and work
towards that.

Ildiko Mazar: So I came home very pleased and happy and excited about the
work forward. So that's it for Warso. If there are any questions I think
you are able to check the presentations as well. I can't wait to see Nate
Otto's that received a lot of praise but I missed can be in two rooms at
the same time. And then we can move on to the next event that's on my cheat
sheet which is the digital credentials consortium summit that was held
almost on the same dates on the 26th and the 27th.

Ildiko Mazar: do we have anybody from the DCC who would like to give us a
little summary or review?

Kerri Lemoie: Hi, it's Carrie. I can give a short summary. sorry, I'm going
to apologize in advance for any noise because we had some flooding where I
live and we have a tree in our yard that's being removed right now, of
course. Good timing. so, the summit was wonderful. TU Delft hosted us.
They're one of our members. and we spent a day and a half with most of our
members and some invited guests who presented on their work and their views
on digital credentials, micro credentials and what we think the future of
the DCC should be.

Kerri Lemoie: For those of you who aren't too familiar with the history of
the DCC, we were founded in 2018. I think officially a couple years later,
but there was a white paper written around then that really described what
we've created, which is this infrastructure for digital credentials,
including signing Sorry, I'm going to move and walk into another room. It's
really loud in issuing signing. sorry it's louder out there. Okay. Anyway,…

Ildiko Mazar: We can't hear anything. Only you, Carrie. So,…

Kerri Lemoie: only Okay,…

Ildiko Mazar: don't worry. Yep.

Kerri Lemoie: yeah, so we built out what was put forth in that paper
originally and now we're wondering, what does this consortium want to do
next, right? What is the future of the work here? What are all the
questions we all have now? So, we spent a lot of time just really thinking
and talking about that. And I think as an organization, we're going to be
exploring this more over the coming year. and, it was just really wonderful
to get together in person. We actually had never really done that since,
the original meeting years ago. So, it was wonderful. Many of us had never
met in person. and I think really there's so much value in doing that.
00:20:00

Kerri Lemoie: So we're really glad that we had the opportunity to do that
and also to have some invited guests who provided some other input on
people in our space including we had a wonderful keynote discussion with
Philip Schmidt who was the original director and founder of the DCC with
Sanjay Sarma who was the VP of open learning when dcc was founded and just
having some really interesting conversations with them about things. and
then many of us actually went on to Geneva the following week. So we got to
continue the conversations there.

Ildiko Mazar: You can carry on because that's the next on the list unless
somebody else from who participated summit would like to add comments or
observations.

Kerri Lemoie: Just seeing who's here.

Alex Higuera: I mean I can talk a little bit about that. and…

Kerri Lemoie: Hi. Yeah.

Alex Higuera: kind of Hi Carrie. I was I mean maybe Carrie also wants to
touch on it but Carrie Ka gave a keynote on digital educational credentials
at the GC DGC and she spoke a little bit about the DCC's work. also had
this nifty image on how trust is defined. I don't know, Carrie, if you have
thoughts on any of that, but it was a good recap on I guess the state of
higher education with VCs.

Kerri Lemoie: Yeah, thank Yeah, we could talk about that as part of the G
GDC stuff. And I think the DCC summit kind of fed into that because we've
all really been thinking quite a bit about trust and how these credentials
are trusted not just to the verifiers but to us as individuals who hold
them. How do we trust them? do we need to worry about surveillance and
safety and security? and I don't think we've been talking about that
enough. So, that came up quite a bit at the summit and also at GDC. and I
can share those slides, too. So, thank you for bringing that up, Alex.
Let's see here. this is the slide that Alex was referring to.

Kerri Lemoie: but yeah, in terms of this DC summit, I hope we get to do
that again at some point and yeah, it was great. Thank you.

Ildiko Mazar: Thank you very much. we have a few others who I was there as
well. Most of it just went above my head. It was too technical, but it was
really nice to see on one hand to have such an important meeting hosted in
Europe. that was definitely something nice to see and have the just
position in the program with such priority. DI wallet there was something
about the EUDI wallet all the time everywhere.

Ildiko Mazar: So this is something that we have the whole world's eyes on
and of course the digital educ credentials in the education strand.

Ildiko Mazar: I believe it was strong enough people appeared at very
unfriendly 8:30 a.m. to icipate. So the commitment is definitely there and
the dedication. So yeah let's hope continues. I don't

Kerri Lemoie: Sorry, I'm really laughing at Sharon's comment in the chat.

Kerri Lemoie: Yeah, I have quite a little bit more to say about the GDC,
too. if there's time for that. Eldico there was this one presentation that
kind of blew my mind. It was called the overview on state-of-the-art wallet
standards and it really made me think about I'll put the slides there. but
I put the page that has all of the slides and videos for the presentations
on day one.

Kerri Lemoie: I think they listed seven in these slides of different
combinations of standards that are being used and I know that is not even
the finite list of everything that is just what they probably had time to
present and so thinking about interoperability and we all talk about open
badges and that's great and we talk about your pain learning model and
that's great and we have JSON LG there and the link data and how that is
important in education but there's a lot of the communication protocols

Kerri Lemoie: calls and security protocols that are not aligned and there
are some who don't care about link data don't really dislike link data and
maybe today is not the day to get into it but we have the MDOC standard
that's very different from what we've been working on and verifiable
credentials and I think that was really part of the tension that was at the
conference too right we'd all sort of been thinking about this for the past
few weeks we were kind of primed to because of the discussions in the CCG
about it. and then lastly, I'll just say that I thought the education
session was wonderful. and we have some notes that we're getting together,
but we had quite a few people that were there from everywhere from all over
the world. and also meant to say at the dcc summit, we had people from 14
countries, which was pretty impressive when we only had 30 people there.
So, that was pretty great, too.
00:25:00

Kerri Lemoie: and so part of the education discussion was this trust, was
this interoperability, but also thinking forward about what that means as
making a statement from those of us in this community, right? and I think
Wesley Teter was there from UNESCO talking about the global convention for
higher education and how we may be able to leverage something like that to
be able to make a statement not just at CCG and BCU but also in an even
bigger platform to really make these statements about the principles of
what we expect out of these credentials and what we hope to promote and
advocate for.

Phillip Long: Yeah, I thank you Carrie for that summary because I think you
really hit the key thing that stuck out for me both in the plenaries where
absence of real discussion about the differences in protocols and security
was painfully as well as the concerns that the MDL and MDOC protocols have
with respect to verification never came up or were never addressed.

Phillip Long: and I think we're at kind of a really important tipping point
where the ED EU community and the implementations of micro credentials open
badges are either going to try to retain some semblance of decentralization
in their design and architecture

Phillip Long: or they will give way to the corporatization that drives it
towards centralized perspectives that many of the autocracies that are in
the voting population of the standards groups internationally unfortunately
reside and as a consequence put us in the position at least in the US of
having security by policy as opposed to by design and anything that is
based on policy is reversible in a relatively short order and I think
that's a significant concern. But I didn't hear those conversations really
forcefully raised with the exception of your session on the educational
credentials where I think it was raised strongly and concerns were there. I
know Sharon you were making comments about it as well as others.

Phillip Long: Kim who was present in particular and who has been doing a
tremendous job bringing visibility to this topic more broadly as was Joe
Andreo who was present and has done similar things. In fact I will post in
the chat I think I have it here. his concern about this which is in the
context of registries and his concern that the way in which registry
designs are being developed are a centralization that we should to try to
reconsider.

Phillip Long: and so I think that those were very important topics that we
really as a community need to be more directly overt in our discussion of
and examine what we've been doing in light of the potential for
implementations of DIDs which are in fact not decentralized. the most
recent example that's been in the discussion in RWOT an example is a case
in point. so I'll just leave it at that because I think the value of the
face toface was really important as is most conferences. It's not the
presentations but who you see in the hallway.
00:30:00

Phillip Long: and the time you get to spend with them that you've never
seen before other than their Zoom image or icon. and so that was really
useful, but there are some major issues that I think we're going to have to
deal with relatively quickly. Thanks, Sharon.

Ildiko Mazar: Thank you. Does anybody have any questions about any of the
before mentioned and reported conferences from people who haven't spoken
yet? Sherry

Sharon Leu: Hi. I have a couple of general reflections as well on GDC and
then I guess maybe like something for us to do slashthink about. so I keep
thinking I should write up this is what I thought but then I thought too
many things and so it becomes a longer and longer reflection. But what I
thought was really interesting is to see all of the different in
interoperability concerns around the specs and the different kinds of
technical details aside what I really appreciated seeing was so many little
collaborations as they were being presented because it wasn't just that
there was a wallet in Singapore.

Sharon Leu: was that while in Singapore they tried out an interoperability
exercise with their colleagues in Hong Kong and China and it wasn't just
one thing it was just little groups of people just little experiments of
people trying to share credentials and I thought that was really
encouraging because I think that's what we want to see as a community is
the purpose of the interoperability is for interop for people to be able to
be mobile for transactions to be more efficient for them to be more secure
and then seeing sort of real life experiments in that I thought that was
really cool.

Sharon Leu: I think that the session other than that I'll sort of remember
the most is actually the business wallet session which has nothing to do
with education but has to do with how they've thought about data spaces and
sharing data about seafood which I think is a sort of funny tidbit that
I'll walk away with which is that salmon and cheese from Cyprus have a
wallet and so a lot of it made me feel like it was validating for a lot of
the work that we've been doing that that there is going to be widespread
adoption sort of just over the horizon and that's a real horizon and not a
false one. I also think that one thing that was fun as well is that and
Carrie didn't say this, but she organized one of the pre-conferences the
day before to talk specifically about education. And we had a fun
conversation during that as well.

Sharon Leu: And that actually is I don't know if it's a question for you
Ilicico or for others on this call is that there just seems to be people
are sort of itching to do something right and people are itching to
demonstrate some interoperability for certain use cases and I'm just
curious could that lead to some actual work items coming from this task
force what could we do together next to continue to advance What our vision
for this work.

Ildiko Mazar: Definitely a plus one from me. I think we're in great need
for good valuable content and if it's emerging naturally then it's even
better. I don't know if Dimitri would have any comments on the agenda
setting. but Carrie, your hand is over to

Kerri Lemoie: Yeah, I was just thinking about what Sharon was saying about
how people are itching to do things and then also we have all of these sort
of a lot of vendors, countries education bodies really getting together and
creating things and we don't really have a list of what they are, and so we
could talk about a work item at BC Edu about listing the education related
type of initiatives and how they are aligned with verifiable credentials.
00:35:00

Kerri Lemoie: and I think many have tried to do this in the US in terms of
different parts of this but never really as a whole and this might be the
place where we can do that as a community and try to plan how that could
work and how to measure interoperability using the existing tools that have
come out of CCG or something like that. because I think it's time to really
see what is there and who is doing what and how they are aligned. because
there's a lot going on and it's pretty awesome and I think that's really
what came to light for me at GDC was that there's just so much happening
and it's really actually very exciting with all the challenges and fears
that we might have. even still it's so much is happening and how do we
capture that in this community.

Ildiko Mazar: Yeah, and like you said to exploit the fact that we have this
community where we have so many enthusiastic and committed knowledgeable
members from all the different domain and geographical areas as well. If we
plan the activities properly there could be asynchronous u parts to a work
and then periodical presentations of progress and mapping etc.

Ildiko Mazar: That's anything hands-on I'm totally on board so gets me
really excited and we should discuss actual implementation plans for this
steps.

Kerri Lemoie: Yeah, I think so too.

Kerri Lemoie: I mean, I tend to think that education played a big role in
leading efforts in terms of verifiable credentials. and there are people
all over the world doing this and that is another thing to consider is
quite a few times I heard from many who are not even close to the time zone
to make it to this call could we please hold calls at other times figure
that out because they would like to stay connected with all of us and it's
hard to do that at this time of day for many people.

Ildiko Mazar: Yeah, It's very early for you.

Kerri Lemoie: Stand while it'll figure it out for us.

Ildiko Mazar: It's very late for me. there's almost nobody in between to be
honest. We have an ocean. Maybe the salmon could join. It's perfect for
other fish. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. Dimmitri, do you have any thoughts on
how you would see this happening? I am yet to see something hands-on
happening in the group.

Ildiko Mazar: So far what I have seen is more around presentations some
open mic calls where we can really just converse around the topic have
experts give their wisdom and knowledge. but apart from This

Dmitri Zagidulin: So the only two things that come to mind one is we could
start maintaining let's say a spreadsheet or a markdown table of so we
could sort it by role right like wallet issuer verifier and consuming app
or authoring app.

Dmitri Zagidulin: And it could just be list of projects that we know about
and the criteria there would be presented to the group or is familiar to or
is used by group member. But more importantly, the important columns there
aside from just a list would be protocols to get stuff protocols to get
stuff out, which credential formats they're known to support. And then an
even more important column would be confirmation of that, Because we all
know that there's a lot of theoretical support for protocols and data
models, but not actual.

Dmitri Zagidulin: So it'd be really interesting to start gathering this
sort of progressive list of we know that this project theoretically
supports credentials in general. it speaks specifically of the VC API
protocol and a couple of comments of we tried it out with this software the
other day and this is what we found. Right. so just a knowledge base or a
wisdom base specifically related to credentials for the group. I think that
might be a decent start. the other thing that comes to mind is of course as
always a wanted posters gallery or a petting zoo of verifiable credentials.
though I think diff has such a spec already so we could just contribute to
that one.
00:40:00

Ildiko Mazar: Do you have the URL at hand to that? I'm trying to take
notes. Things

Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah. to the diff One second. Yeah, it's a schema
directory. That's what it is.

Ildiko Mazar: No. Thanks.

Dmitri Zagidulin: It's this one right here in Google Meet chat. That's here.

Ildiko Mazar: Yes. And I'm just speaking of the comments, Sharon. if I can
I find those tables from the Plugfest? in the GitHub, do you think?

Sharon Leu: I'm looking for them right now. but I actually feel like what
we posted on the VC Edry website is just the list. It doesn't have that
level of detail. But what I can do is what if I decode just emailed it to
you and you can sort of see what the table looks like. the whole thing is
that it's a little bit challenging. So, we thought a lot about this when we
were doing our market scans for the wallets because the problem with a
table like that is it's based on self-reported information. So, we have to
be clear about that unless you want to be in some intermediary role where
you are verifying that those are in fact true things.

Dmitri Zagidulin: and…

Sharon Leu: Yes.

Dmitri Zagidulin: I think that would be a large value ad.

Sharon Leu: You think it would be value ad? I thought you were going to
say, Demetri, that it's a giant time suck.

Sharon Leu: But no,…

Dmitri Zagidulin: Look all groups are giant time stock,…

Sharon Leu: but I mean Okay.

Dmitri Zagidulin: but that would be the major thing and specifically it's
not that the chairs would need to sit down and do this. it would be an
invitation to any of the developers in the group of okay yeah the other day
I was working on a project that was connecting these two things together
right so that sort of thing

Sharon Leu: I mean, yeah, That's true. so that's one thing is that you
don't know if that information is real or not. but I do think that it would
be interesting and valuable to see more if people had a page with their
active projects.

Sharon Leu: And also to know if they were open to collaborations and on
what specific types of use cases on LinkedIn it's open to work.

Ildiko Mazar: Mhm. Not dead.

Dmitri Zagidulin: That's interesting. So, specifically a narrower list of
any sort of implementers that are looking for collaborators and got that
would be very interesting. I agree with you.

Sharon Leu: It's open to like Yeah.

Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah, open to collaboration. What a good idea.

Sharon Leu: Another idea that's way more work for the code chairs is for
this group to come up with a list of what we think are high impact use
cases and then do if you're interested in this use case dot dot dot

Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah, agreed.

Dmitri Zagidulin: Agreed. That would be just er just out of sheer interest.
I'm curious what a survey of the group members think is high impact.
00:45:00

Phillip Long: I mean this is very analogous in the education world to gosh
some time ago when high impact pedagogical practice p practices were listed
and…

Phillip Long: what are the characteristics that they involve And then
people would take advantage of that and see whether or not what they were
doing was mirrored in that list of characteristics associated with high
impact pedagogies.

Ildiko Mazar: Are you suggesting that something might come out of this
exercise that would suggest what the common characteristics would be in
this domain of our high impact use cases?

Phillip Long: I one of the possibilities is it would either identify those
things which do in fact find themselves well described by those terms as
well as those things that go by that description which is equally valuable.

Phillip Long: That's a flash from the past Carrie.

Kerri Lemoie: The use cases document.

Phillip Long: Yes. Yes.

Kerri Lemoie: Yeah, I mean this is old school here, but it was done as part
One of our work items here was I think it'll be great for this community to
have work item like this.

Phillip Long: Yeah. Yeah. It'd be nice…

Kerri Lemoie: I think it could bring in a lot more participants. and it's
great that we do presentations and we see each other's work, but I think
that the time has come for us to really do what we're talking about here.

Phillip Long: if we also had a lens on these things in terms of some of
these key differentiators that are emerging like what is the implications
with respect to centralization

Phillip Long: versus decentralization on each of these things. because from
my perspective at least that's going to make a huge impact on the adoption
of this stuff and…

Phillip Long: who controls it.

Kerri Lemoie: Yeah. Yeah.

Kerri Lemoie: And I think that, we have a part of this community who aren't
developers, who aren't technologists, who are just very interested in this
space and I know a lot of people just can't tell the difference. It's hard
for those of us who are even buried into it and with our heads in it to
really know what's going on half the time.

Phillip Long: Yeah.

Kerri Lemoie: So that's part of this too is helping people understand what
that means. what Phil just said, centralized versus decentralized.

Kerri Lemoie: Some people would have no idea what we even mean by that, And
the implications of that. Many people probably

Ildiko Mazar: very exciting.

Ildiko Mazar: Thanks Sharon. Thank god it's your email. Perfection. that
was great. I took notes as much as I could and I can watch the recording to
clean them up and then we will take some time to reflect and create maybe a
work proposal.

Ildiko Mazar: I don't hopefully I can make this commitment on behalf of all
of us or the three chair and then the next question is are there any other
questions or reflections that you have or can we call it a day?

Kerri Lemoie: I think he gave us a lot to think about. Yeah.

Ildiko Mazar: Absolutely. Yeah, that was really Really enjoyed it. it's a
very good note to end the year on. we already mentioned in the invite that
we are going to take a break for the summer summer because people are going
on vacations and not quite sure when we will reconvene but we will keep you
informed and cancel the meetings in between. I think we tried and we'll be
in touch about our first call in September.
00:50:00

Kerri Lemoie: Awesome. Thank you so much,…

Phillip Long: Yes, sir.

Kerri Lemoie: Hildo. Thanks all.

Ildiko Mazar: Thank you for your contributions and reflections and have an
excellent summer and…

Xavi Aracil: Thank you. Bye.

Ildiko Mazar: you in September. Bye.

Kerri Lemoie: You too. Thanks everybody.
Meeting ended after 00:50:51 👋

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Received on Monday, 14 July 2025 22:15:41 UTC