- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2025 20:38:01 +0000
- To: public-credentials@w3.org
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-01-07/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-01-07/audio.ogg A video recording is also available at: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2025-01-07.mp4 ---------------------------------------------------------------- W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2025-01-07 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Jan&period_year=2025&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date Organizer: Harrison Tang, Kimberly Linson, Will Abramson Scribe: Our Robot Overlords Present: Harrison Tang, Mahmoud Alkhraishi, Will Abramson, Nis Jespersen , TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Rashmi Siravara, Jennie M, Greg Bernstein, Vanessa, Wendy Seltzer, Drummond Reed, Kaliya Young, Joe Andrieu, James Chartrand, Manu Sporny, Erica Connell, Kayode Ezike, Phil Long, Benjamin Young, John Henderson, Jeff O - HumanOS, Dmitri Zagidulin, Ivette B, Brian Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Harrison_Tang: We're good to go. Will Abramson: Okay hi welcome everyone uh Welcome to our first CCT call of the new year happy New Year hope everyone had a hopefully relaxing break. Will Abramson: Uh today we have young Kristoff here who is going to present some dif work on it trades. Will Abramson: Uh before I get into that I'm just going to review the typical ccg admin stuff so uh code of conduct code of ethics and professional conduct reminder um you know we have a code of conduct and ethics you know please treat everyone with respect the friendly constructive and collaborative we want to make sure everyone feels welcome to participate in these calls and on the mailing list I think we do a good job of this but let's you know continue let's start the new year with that in mind um. Will Abramson: Next to have the IP notes so anybody is welcome to participate in these calls we. Will Abramson: We're glad to have you participate however if you want to contribute to ccg work items. Will Abramson: Uh you must be a member of the CCT with full IPR agreement signed. Will Abramson: And if you don't know what that means or what that is reach out to 1 of the chairs and we can help you with that. Will Abramson: Just do that. Will Abramson: Uh next on the call now so this this calls are recorded jitsi and transcribes through a. Will Abramson: Digital transcriber which isn't always the best but we try our best uh and they will be made available after the call. Will Abramson: If you want a queue you can raise your hand in jitsi or you can type Q Plus into the chat on the left hand side. Will Abramson: And we will manage the queue as we go. Will Abramson: Okay I think that's everything I guess introductions and reintroductions does anybody want to say hello to the community uh the start of the new year has anyone new to these calls and wants to introduce themselves please feel free to jump on the Queue now. Will Abramson: Okay going going numb. Will Abramson: Uh okay next announcements and reminders does anyone have any announcements or reminders for the community in Greg. Greg Bernstein: Hi I wanted to let folks know that we've been successful in advancing um. Greg Bernstein: Some of our BBS work our Advanced features over at the ietf blind BBS and pseudonyms have a been adopted as working group documents. Greg Bernstein: Is that some of our extra features 1 that we call Anonymous holder bindings is enabled by by blind BBS and that feature is like. Greg Bernstein: It helps the holder out with like another factor of authentication to keep somebody from stealing their credentials and the other 1 that is enabled is what we call pseudonyms which actually has benefits. Greg Bernstein: To be anonymous but not completely they can have an identity with a particular verifier and that also helps the V verifier so these are 2 very important features to go along with. Greg Bernstein: Credentials as provided by BBS this unlink so great progress there and we're going to be updating those drafts at the ietf CFR and incorporating that into. Greg Bernstein: Uh already started incorporating that into the VC uh Dibbs uh crypto Suite. Greg Bernstein: Good news there. Will Abramson: Great thanks Greg yeah that is good news. Kaliya Young: https://didunconf.africa/ Kaliya Young: Hey there um we've got the did on conference Africa coming up in Cape Town um February 18 to 20th so if you. Kaliya Young: Strokes in the region and want to let them know about it um. Kaliya Young: It's going to be a good event. Kaliya Young: The European iiw inspired event is um. Kaliya Young: Having a kind. Kaliya Young: Kind of special event focused on ecosystem building um it's only 2 days it's March. Kaliya Young: Fourth and fifth so you can fly in. <kaliya_identity_woman> DICE Ecosystems Kaliya Young: Think morning Circle at 10 am and fly out the next day um so you can find more about that there and we have Internet identity Workshop number 40. Kaliya Young: You can believe. Kaliya Young: That old now uh coming up April. <harrison_tang> 20 years!! <kaliya_identity_woman> IIW 40 Kaliya Young: Um 8 to 10 um and then I well and now it's 1 more thing Johannes urns and I have been running the fetty Forum virtually and we're gonna have our fifth fetty forum. Kaliya Young: Uh April 1 and 2 it's not um posted yet but we're announcing it today. Kaliya Young: So all those are great events for the community thanks for letting me share. Will Abramson: Great thanks Clare thanks for sharing. Will Abramson: Okay I don't see anyone else on the Queue uh I guess we progressed on work items I don't have anything to update on that front but does anyone I guess it's been the holidays I'm chewing there's no updates but. Will Abramson: There are jump on with you please. Will Abramson: Yeah not seeing anyone okay top uh oh man. Manu Sporny: Sorry I I probably worth mentioning um we are preparing to take multiple in in the verifiable credential working group we're taking the uh we're preparing to take multiple specifications to the proposed recommendation phase in q1 of this year so proposed and recommendation is basically we are done it is going up for a final vote uh with the w3c membership um many well all of the major features have been done for a while we've been getting implementations we are trying to lock down every single test suite at this point uh we have sent out our very last request for review uh horizontal review across all the groups privacy internationalization security all that kind of stuff um and once they give us uh the go-ahead um which again shouldn't take very long because they've all reviewed this stuff before it's just that you know the Delta on the specs. Manu Sporny: Once they give us the the green light uh I expect all of those specifications There's 7 of them um would be moved to uh the vote to become a global standard um. Manu Sporny: Uh of course these dead you know these these timelines can shift based because we're totally dependent on outside parties to do review uh so we know how how that goes sometimes um. <jan_christoph_ebersbach_(identinet)> How does it work? Has the meeting started, already? Manu Sporny: Good news that's a long you know 2 year slog uh nearing its end um uh once we get those specifications out there as Global standards uh you probably you know would would expect that we are going to recharter the working group to add uh other features we did not get to uh in this iteration so uh that's it uh for a kind of just a heads up to expect um for the global standards in q1 of this that's it. Will Abramson: Thanks man thanks for the update uh okay uh so with that young Crystal I saw your message and I guess to me kind of started but that's just the um. Will Abramson: I don't know the the pre the intro now we'll hand over to you if you're I mean you're on the call I haven't heard you speak yet but hand over to you to talk about good traits. Will Abramson: Can you hear us maybe you can't hear us. <harrison_tang> @Jan You are on mute Will Abramson: And I see y'all muted in jitsi. Will Abramson: And Kristoff can you can you put in the chat at least if you can't hear anything. Harrison_Tang: Let me pin him over email but we can get to other items if there are other items. Will Abramson: Yes I don't have a writing. Will Abramson: See you come off mute now young Crystal. Will Abramson: I still can't hear you. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: If you're on a browser other than Chrome it probably will not work I've had a lot of issues with Firefox Etc so maybe uh it could be a browser issue. <greg_bernstein> Brave works. I use it for these calls. Will Abramson: Yes we should have tested this before. <jan_christoph_ebersbach_(identinet)> Can you hear me? <manu_sporny> You are muted. You have to unmute Will Abramson: Yeah I'm not seeing Otto the other person on the specs. Will Abramson: Yeah we we. Will Abramson: Can't hear you. Will Abramson: I see you keep coming off and on mute but. Will Abramson: Maybe you don't have the right mic so. Will Abramson: Oh just about this everyone we should have figured out the tech before. Will Abramson: Um I'm not sure what to propose here so I have a suggestion I mean. <jan_christoph_ebersbach_(identinet)> I am unmuted Will Abramson: Because if the meeting does anyone have anything else that we could. Will Abramson: On the. Will Abramson: Right I don't have anything off the top of my head. <harrison_tang> yup, we cannot hear you. you might want to restart your browser and use Chrome Manu Sporny: I'm wondering if there's anybody else in the in the did traits group that could maybe fill in while. Manu Sporny: On fixes his audio issues. Will Abramson: Yes I was looking for also but I think. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Okay now I can hear you oh that's. Will Abramson: Oh now we can hear you. Manu Sporny: There we go we can hear you. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): I'm sorry. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Sorry I was a bit confused apparently Firefox doesn't work with. Will Abramson: Yes apologies we should have told you that. Will Abramson: Oh fantastic yeah thanks for coming on sorry about that confusion technical difficulties but yeah if you want to share your screen or if you're just going to talk whatever's best over to you I did traits. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Very good I'll quickly share my screen. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Now let's go here okay let's get. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): No you should be able to. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): See my screen. Will Abramson: Yeah I can see it. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Awesome great uh first of all happy New Year and uh thank you for having me. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um I'll be talking about uh DF did trades and um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh my name is Yan Chris of abrasa or short JC I work for identity at a company based in Breman Germany and I'm uh the editor of the uh did uh trade specification at the decentralized identity Foundation. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): So quick background to uh What uh. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Mean by did trades um did trades is a specification that provides a framework for describing G methods uh based on their operational and uh functional characteristics. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um a little bit of background what actually brought me uh to the specification um I attended IBEW 39 back in April and uh back then the did TDW uh did method was uh introduced uh by Stephen Curran and. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): I was wondering uh about how did uh TDW is different from other did methods or um Carry as another identity system in particular um and uh where it's actually similar and um I found it very difficult to um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh to find a good explanation of what the differences are uh between did methods um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): When we look at the uh G core specification it lists uh certain functionalities like creation deletion um modification of did documents um but uh we've seen. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh a lot of um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Being created around the IDS for instance self-served certifying identifiers um that describe themselves like uh with did key or now with DTW and um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh many other characteristics and there wasn't really um a system and and a vocabulary to express these uh differences and. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um this is how I uh introduced um the idea of the ID trades um to the identity and identifi identifiers and Discovery working group at uh dif. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And we uh started working um in this working group and also aligned with uh other organizations like uh the open Wallet foundation and also just over IP Foundation um and we saw um interests from from many sites that um such a thing as trades is being specified. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yeah we uh particularly I uh we we see that there are many did methods nowadays I think over 190 uh GID Methods at the moment um and it's very difficult for to assess how these diid methods are actually different uh from 1 another and this is what we try to um Express uh and capture with the did traits uh effort. Will Abramson: Can I just uh jump in uh I see this bill is on the Queue I don't know if you want to take questions as you go or just wait till the end of what you up to you. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Oh yeah please feel free to to ask questions uh in between uh I think we will have enough time um to answer them right away um the the presentation is not too long and please go forward yeah. Will Abramson: No worries. Phil Long: Sorry that was an inadvertent keystroke I just took myself off. Will Abramson: Okay sorry about that yeah. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yeah the objective of did trades is to create a common vocabulary for describing did methods. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And uh to Foster transparency uh for did method selection um that was actually my initial. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um idea of me implementing uh or using did methods um how do I find the right did method for my particular use case and um to really simplify this uh decision-making process. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): There are 2 key features um that we are trying to deliver with this specification 1 is a list of uh trades uh with clear descriptions. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And um sample descriptions of did methods um that um that um feature these trades um and we uh actually want to display them in in a easily consumable manner we will look at the specification in a second actually I can post the link here in the chat. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Everyone to look at let me quickly bring up the chat and. https://identity.foundation/did-traits/ Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The link to the specification is here okay. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The trades list um is um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Li expressed as uh a Json schema. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And uh this schema is uh very simple uh it um is just a long list of Trades that are expressed as uh Boolean values. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um we have no uh subcategorization of Trades so for instance um we could uh thought about this as maybe we want to address certain traits that I have to do with the modification of documents and um maybe security um relevant traits but we decided to go for a very simple straightforward list of Trades. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um and here are some example trades um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The uh did is for instance updatable or deactivated um or the IDS are self-certifying uh these are some uh examples of the ID trades and we will go through uh the the trades list in a second and also look at an example of um how this would look like for a particular D method. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The uh did methods um for instance the web or did key uh we would like to have descriptions of the trades for each G method and um these descriptions should ideally Leverage The schema that uh we created in the specification. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): so that. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The ID method a descriptions become machine readable. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And can be consumed by uh various systems that either generate user facing information um or even um use it for machine readable purposes. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um let us quickly jump over to the specification um I think it will be. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Clearer in a second of how it how it actually works. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The um specification is still in in early version uh we are planning to release this um work to present um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Ification to the working group um very soon and now I'm presenting it here uh we're looking uh for feedback on the specification and on the especially on the list of Trades which is the most important part of this specification. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): If you uh scroll down here um you will see uh the definition of our trades list of our trades. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh each individual trade is listed here with um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh and a description um if applicable there is also a link to um other specifications. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And we have here um in the beginning uh trades that are uh related to the modifiability of the did or the did document um so updatable deactivation uh in particular we track with our service endpoints can be managed um as we um found this to be relevant for implementers uh to know whether they can. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Service endpoints or not uh to their to did the ideas of this particular method um and whether they did method is did is deletable. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um we also included. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): uh trans. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Actional fees um that could apply for modification the modification of the ID documents. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): This is uh in particular um relevant for Ledger based did methods. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And um now we come here to more uh security relevant uh trades um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Again that there is no subcategory but obviously we we had something like this in mind when we uh went um through the list of Trades and created them um so we have here self-certifying um as a trade that a did method can provide um rotatable verification methods um pre- rotation of keys rather new uh feature that was introduced by Carrie and um is was also adopted by did TDW. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh multi signature verification uh when updating the did document uh was added here. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): We have the trade uh human readability of the did. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): So uh a feature like a numeric of the dids that were created for this method the idea is um if uh a blockchain based did method for instance is used it all the existing identifiers could could be enumerated and known um from the outside and uh that uh seem to be relevant um for um the people who contributed to our specification. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um we distinguish between locally resolvable uh just within uh the context of a transaction um as. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Locally resolvable t uh documents um this applies to for instance did Pierre or globally resolvable uh did documents like uh did key or did web. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh we also included a trade for the ID document history. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And also cryptographically signed uh did document history um as an additional feature uh to this particular trade. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um then we looked at uh hosting of the ID documents uh where are they hosted either um no hosting required for instance did key or did Pierre or documents are centrally or decently hosted um on systems. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And the uh remaining did trades um concern um cryptographic features of the ID methods um this is not the latest um state of our discussion just before this call we had another uh alignment and concluded that we actually want to list. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Individual key type or key um curve that could be. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Supported by a team did method and um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Make each of these things explicitly um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): A trade um at the moment uh you see here that we uh went for. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The standards bodies um like nist in the United States um and many others around the world who uh approved certain cryptographic methods um but we uh found that it is um a bit too tricky and too cumbersome to keep uh such a list or such a trades list up-to-date across all uh the did methods that will Implement um the or Define did traits. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And we would rather keep it uh really Technical and focus with our trades on um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Technical aspects of a did method um that are then um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Turned in in a higher abstraction level um to for instance uh. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And compliance information that um becomes relevant for a certain entity who wants to use a did method or not use a did method. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yes this is uh the list of uh did trades that we identified. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um I would say maybe we. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Put uh questions a bit on the back burner and uh go into an example of how this could look like in an um in a description. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): of a. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Concrete the ID method um and then I'm happy to take questions and suggestions of how we can advance the specification and also um how this could become uh relevant for you and maybe uh to others as well. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Specific the these uh trades here are specified as uh adjacent schema when you open this URL here. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): He will um find the underlying Json schema. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): With uh each trade having a unique name here and type and title and description. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And we leveraged this schema. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Example descriptions that we created here um so this is an example for the did key the ID method. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh we follow here uh the did core specification according to uh What uh characters are allowed here for name um and. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): You can just reference the schema here and then. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Are able to create um this definition and you see here each of these um values is expressed as uh Boolean value. <dmitri_zagidulin> I'm fairly sure US Gov uses did:key.. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): If support is there for instance here for dead key it is a globally resolvable uh did method um then he would just place. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Here and um claim support for this particular trade. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): That we that did method authors would. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Create this trade definition on their own. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): If a trade is not listed here for instance if a new trade is added or if the author. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Doesn't list it then it is assumed that the value is false so that the trade is not uh supported by the D method. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): With this uh description. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): We autogenerated this um table as an example uh for for did methods. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And hope that uh implementers are able to uh then use this to figure out quickly. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): How their requirements apply to certain did methods and um filter down the list of the ID methods that are relevant to them um to further dive down into the details of the did method. <dmitri_zagidulin> Eeeeverything is human readable, if you have enough patience :) Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): The specification um or the list of Trades does not try to capture every single unique aspect of a did method uh we try to. <kaliya_identity_woman> Here is the FediForum I mentioned it at the beginning of the call Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): To keep it at a level where um trades are uh implementable is implementable by different did methods and it's not just super unique to 1 particular did method um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yeah so that they can be compared and that they still stay relevant uh for implementers. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yeah I still in um at a relatively early stage of this uh specification the specification was started in I think July August um around about that time and uh are we are now in the stage of presenting this to uh our working group um which uh still leaves uh time to to modify and update the specification um before we want to publish um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): So if you have any uh suggestions um for trades uh please feel free to to make them and um I'm happy to uh receive your questions and feedback. Will Abramson: Great thank you uh I see em on the Queue so go ahead. Manu Sporny: Sure um hey and Kristoff this is a wonderful work so thank you very much for putting in the time to um organized you know all the different traits and uh provide a way for people to express them like analyze and express Stitt traits I think this is super useful work so thank you for that um I guess the the question is more around integrating this with the did extensions registry so as you know we have this sprawling registry of you know over as you said over 190 we might have hit more than 200 now did methods um and it feels like it would be very useful for uh people that registered their did methods to also be able to specify the did traits that the did method they're registering has um ha have you um discussed this uh in the group um are you interested in uh you know. Manu Sporny: Adding this schema to the did extension registration schema do you feel like it would be helpful to do that um just general questions in that in that area um interested in your thoughts. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yes uh we have not uh discussed this in detail but um Marcus sodello mentioned it and I think it would be a great addition um um to the registry uh we're currently actually linking here to the registry already um so if this could become part of it um I um I would be very happy I think it would make uh the schema way more uh. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Relevant and usable by implementers and also by Method authors. Will Abramson: If his follow-up manager go ahead. Manu Sporny: It I can go after Ted I I do have. Will Abramson: Okay sure that. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Yeah um this seems very much in uh parallel to the did rubric um but it seems that it was developed without knowing of the rubric existed because they started off by saying well there's there's no way to compare these methods except that's exactly what the rubric was in to do so just uh food for thought if nothing else through the link in a above in the chat. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yes uh thank you so much uh we did know about the uh the rubric before actually I uh. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Mentioned it but uh we listed here um additional work that was done um in particular with the rubric um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): We found that the focus is. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Kind of wide in certain areas um and it's. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): It becomes very difficult for our did method to express. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Support for a certain uh feature um or a certain aspect uh of the rubric and uh we found that. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): I'm having a simple list that consists just of Boolean values. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Makes uh makes it a bit easier um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And also maybe captures additional aspects for instance security related aspects like um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Certifying identifiers um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): That aren't currently not addressed by the Rubik um my understanding is that the main objective of the rubric was to address decentralization of dids and also uh privacy. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): But please correct me if I'm wrong. Will Abramson: Chad do you have any more on that tomorrow. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Um well the rubric was intended to. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): A framework for. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Who wanted to use dits in some way to compare the did methods and figure out which ones 1 or ones uh were best suited to their use. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Certainly most of its uh. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Descriptive factors are um subjective and. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): More range than than Boolean but adding booleans to it is entirely doable and I think makes a lot of sense. Will Abramson: Yeah I mean I'll just add that I do think that yeah it'll be interesting to see what like how these 2 work streams could come together or like where they overlap could usefully complement each other. Will Abramson: How may I help you. Manu Sporny: Um right yeah I I agree with that um statement um well and uh you know I I view the the rubric more as kind of a as as Ted mentioned um you know it's it's um you know there's their objective measurements and then there are kind of you know um hard measurements you know that you can made on make on a dead method so the thing that I really like about the did trade stuff is like it's a very simple like yes no answer right um whereas the rubric has more wide ranging questions around you know like how decentralized is the dead method or um uh those sorts of questions so I do agree that you know potentially the work could come together in the future but you know I see the did traits work um you know having value a just by itself um uh the the thing I put myself on the queue for um so uh. Manu Sporny: Young Kristoff I think it it's it's great to hear that you think there's value in you know uh using this to to um make the data extensions registered better um I I I agree with that as well I'm and I and I wanted to kind of figure out a way to make that happen sooner than later so the did extensions you know we have an active did working group at world at w3c we're able to make significant changes to the data extension's uh uh at any point in the next like year and a half um and uh like for example you could go in tomorrow and raise a pull request on the registration criteria for did extensions and say hey it would be nice if optionally people could list the did traits um uh and and we could we could change the registry within weeks right to to do that uh I would certainly be in support of that uh even if it's not. Manu Sporny: You know. Manu Sporny: Complete so so like you know things like updatable and deactivate things to put in there but as you mentioned uh earlier the whole you know discussion around cryptography and whether or not we specify the curves or specify the countries that's still under discussion so maybe we don't have those uh uh just yet um so I just wanted to kind of um. Manu Sporny: You or support you in uh doing that change sooner than later uh because I do think it would be useful to have some traits um listed um the the big problem of course is like we have you know 2 almost 200 maybe over 200 did methods now where we don't have those traits so we'd have to make it optional and we'd have to try and make sure that the registrants uh went in and categorized it we can't you know expect the maintainers to go and recategorization. Manu Sporny: Yeah just 1. Manu Sporny: Wanted to support you in doing that if you uh were thinking of doing that anytime soon that's it. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Great thank you yes I'm uh completely new to this uh. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): About this work and I very much appreciate uh your support in this um yeah I'm happy to to open an issue I think we will. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): I think we will um apply the last changes that we agreed upon um in the in the working group and I think then um I I can uh raise the issue and um then continue the work with you to integrate uh the schema into the the registration did extensions. Will Abramson: Thanks I'll just have to I think that is a good idea I guess I'm a little hesitant in that um. Will Abramson: Who whose responsibility is to check those traits are an accurate representation of the did methods. Will Abramson: Sales owners on the on the people. Will Abramson: Anyway we can figure that out I think raising a PR is a great Next Step uh I think I saw someone on the queue. Will Abramson: Uh Ted you still on the game. TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Uh no I should be asking you. Will Abramson: Did I say that right coyote. Kayode Ezike: About that like some reason why I was acting up but I had a first of all thank you you know the presentation this is a great presentation as I was listening 1 thing that came to mind was. Kayode Ezike: That there's not really a way to ensure that whatever the registrations people are you know making on the due traits that that are in the repository that they they actually does comply with it I wonder if useful if uh test Suite could be integrated in some way it might be tricky because you know. Kayode Ezike: That would require you know just 1 implementation which 1 do you choose to actually you know prove that I think that could be discussed but I'm wondering um is if that's something that y'all have thought about is a way to um alongside of the check marks that you were showing for every did um or rather under uh underneath that is a verification against a suite that yes it does actually have this trade or comply with this trade has that come up in discussions at all. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yeah yes it has come up. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Not sure whether we have an open issue. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): I don't think so um it has come up and ideally it would be um testable in an automated manner um I fully agree with you we have not uh put much effort into it um as we see our main deliverable to be the list of Trades. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): And um additional aspects like um how to test uh support for trades um has been um kind of put on the back burner same with the um comparison table here it's just an example uh that we generated to help uh create a better understanding of uh the usefulness or 1 of 1 application of uh trades um however we haven't um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yeah I don't have the plan to create. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Such a description for every single did method so um we want to leave this up to the authors and um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um we're happy to discuss how uh these trades could be maybe tested in an automated manner I think some of them are more testable than others um so I think once modifiability. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Becomes testable then I think a good portion of the trades can be verified um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): However yeah what do we have here um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yeah hosting assessing how a did method is hosted. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Is not not super super simple because it requires the an understanding of the underlying system um so I think. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): There are degrees of how well a trade can be tested um and we didn't want to limit ourselves to just Trace that can be tested in automated Banner we came from the other perspective of saying what is relevant for implementers to know about the did method. <kayode_ezike> Yep, all makes sense Jan. Thanks! Will Abramson: Great thanks John uh Manu. Manu Sporny: Yeah I think that's a a a good good statement I I I think I'd argue the the other way meaning um. Manu Sporny: I don't. Manu Sporny: No well I think it's okay for people that register did methods to make mistake or lie in their registration um speaking is 1 of the main containers the maintainers are never going to be able to do with hero vetting of every single trait um uh and it works against an individual to say that their did method supports a trait when it doesn't right at at some point someone's going to find out and they will raise an issue or report it or say that this is incorrect and um uh and then you know the maintainers can modify it and update it to to you know make the change at that point so I think that that will require less effort on the maintainers behalf than having to vet everything like we don't have enough we don't have enough bandwidth to vet every single thing that's that's stated in these registrations so uh so I I think it's okay to just you know have a list and use the schema and whoever registers it can say anything. Manu Sporny: That they want to just. Manu Sporny: Like they can. Manu Sporny: They want to in their did method um uh and just leave it at that the other thing that I would maybe argue against is doing a test Suite uh I I I totally get where uh Cody you're you're coming from I I think it um G given enough time and resources uh meaning like our our time the community's time. Manu Sporny: I think. Kayode Ezike: +1 Manu Manu Sporny: Having you know testable traits would be great um uh however I think we're working with like you know all of us are working with like limited time we only have so much time to do certain things and there may be other things that the community could put their focus on um rather than you know testing uh the these uh these traits because I think eventually the the whether or not you had the trade or not comes out like if for any popular you know did method if it's you know not accurate uh implementers will uh uh say something uh you know about it and it'll it'll be corrected in time so I think it's okay for us to just start with kind of a a more lacks approach um better to have you know the registrants just claim what their tra are and be able to sort or pick based on them then not have the information at all or wait for you know a perfect solution where a a good enough solution might might uh work in the short term. Manu Sporny: That's it. Will Abramson: Thanks honey make a good point now. Will Abramson: That's a yeah I would yeah I would encourage you to create a PR. Will Abramson: We go from there okay great. Will Abramson: Okay I don't think there's anyone on the queue. Will Abramson: Anybody else have any final comments Sean do you have any. Will Abramson: I have 1 question for you quite simple how does people in on this call get involved in this work like is there a regular call time is there. Will Abramson: Where where do we go participate. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Yes um so you could either get involved by um raising issues on GitHub um the link is up here in the specification. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Um also we have um a call I think once a week uh sorry once uh once a month um I think it's the. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): First Tuesday of the month it should be I guess yeah um first or second Tuesday of the month so today was what's the call so let me quickly check so first Tuesday of the month is our call and um you're happy uh you you can join um. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): if you are. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Uh a dif member um you should receive notifications in the um identifiers and Discovery working group Channel. Will Abramson: Any final questions. Jan_Christoph_Ebersbach_(identinet): Then I will say thank you for having me and uh thank you for uh encouraging me to create this uh PR I'll happily do it and I'm looking forward to Future collaboration. Will Abramson: Great my question thanks a lot yeah. Will Abramson: Okay great thanks a lot everyone. Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Oh no sorry I just want to say thanks. <harrison_tang> Happy New Year, everyone! Will Abramson: Okay great yeah we can give you back some time uh have a great rest of your week and see you next week thanks for.
Received on Wednesday, 8 January 2025 20:38:09 UTC