Re: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2025-02-24

Hi Manu,

The new link works, thank you!

Stefannie
________________________________
From: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2025 11:19 AM
To: ステファニー　タン（SBIホールディングス） <tstefan@sbigroup.co.jp>
Cc: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>; public-credentials@w3.org <public-credentials@w3.org>
Subject: Re: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2025-02-24

Try this one Stefannie:

https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-education-2025-02-24.mp4


On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 9:12 PM ステファニー　タン（SBIホールディングス）
<tstefan@sbigroup.co.jp> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I cannot access the video recording?
>
> Any help is much appreciated!
>
> best regards,
> Stefannie Tan
> ________________________________
> From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2025 2:13 AM
> To: public-credentials@w3.org <public-credentials@w3.org>
> Subject: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2025-02-24
>
> Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
>
> The transcript for the call is now available here:
>
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-02-24-vc-education/

>
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
>
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-02-24-vc-education/audio.ogg

>
> A video recording is also available at:
>
> https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2025-02-24.mp4

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2025-02-24
>
> Agenda:
>   https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2025Feb/0003.html

> Organizer:
>   Kerri Lemoie, Simone Ravaioli, Dmitri Zagidulin
> Scribe:
>   Our Robot Overlords
> Present:
>   Dmitri Zagidulin, Rob Coyle, Curtis Indyke, Nis Jespersen , Eric
>   Shepherd, Kate Giovacchini, TLN, Stuart Freeman, Jack Durkin,
>   Kerri Lemoie, Ildiko Mazar, Kulpreet Singh, James Chartrand,
>   TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Beth -
>   Gobekli, Marianna Milkis, ASU Pocket, Amruth Gouda, Kristen
>   Franklin, Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Colin, Jeff O / HumanOS,
>   Deb Everhart, Chandi Cumaranatunge, David Ward, Sharon Leu, Nate
>   Otto
>
> <kate_giovacchini,_tln> Good morning ya'll!
> <kerri_lemoie> Hello all!
> Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah there we go all right uh so does anybody
>   does anybody new here uh in the group and wants to uh.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Introduced themselves or those who haven't
>   done that in a while may want to hop on the Queue and reintroduce
>   we use the queue by just raising the hands or typing Q Plus in
>   jitsi chat.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh Beth go ahead.
> Beth_-_Gobekli: Hey everybody um I'm Beth I'm from Gobekli uh I'm
>   joined today just part as um coyote had a conflict so uh excited
>   to see what and learn what's going on um here in the group and
>   and see what's being presented today.
> <kerri_lemoie> Hi Beth!
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thank you welcome uh glad to have another
>   another person from the Gobekli team uh we love what they're
>   doing.
> Beth_-_Gobekli: Well thank you yeah we're we're we love being
>   here and I've heard great things about this uh this group so.
> Beth_-_Gobekli: Thanks for having me.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Anyone else want to hop on the queue.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right in that case let's move on to
>   communion announcements does anybody have.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Ments of conferences uh webinars and so on uh
>   coming up.
> <beth_-_gobekli> Hi Kerri!
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  We of course have iaw the internet identity
>   Workshop coming up in April I believe.
> Brooke_Lipsitz_(ASU): Uh 1 at Tech is coming to Phoenix next week
>   um and the tln is hosting a salon event uh wrapping up that
>   conference so if anyone's planning on coming in for 1 at Tech
>   please let us know and we'd love to have you at our Salon event.
> <kate_giovacchini,_tln> We are going to have fun
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Excellent Carrie you're up next.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Awesome hi everybody I will definitely be stopping
>   by that Salon event.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I think TL and it's awesome um and I'll also be at
>   the 1 at Tech digital credentials Summit next week um on various
>   uh sessions 1 with Georgia Tech to talk about digital degrees um
>   and um all the the challenges of applying open badges to that uh
>   with the credential engine test water is for registry project
>   with digital promise to talk about open source badge issuing
>   software.
> Kerri Lemoie:  A couple others I'm sorry that I'm not forgetting
>   in front of me but um 1 I think that is really interesting though
>   be a general session on um trusted credentials and quality and
>   I'm really looking forward to that 1 specifically so we can talk
>   a lot about that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  So hope to see you all there too it'd be great.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thanks Gary sounds sounds exciting I can't
>   wait to hear all about it afterwards.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Anyone else uh with announcements.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right in that case let us move to our main
>   agenda uh we're pleased to have uh Kate do you have acini and
>   Cari Le muy and anyone else from from their teams uh talk about
>   the.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh progress on the various open source uh
>   wallets Kate over to you.
> Kate_Giovacchini,_TLN: Thank you Demetri its way with great
>   pleasure that I actually turned the mic over to my colleague uh
>   Mariana Milas who's been the product manager over ASU pocket for
>   some time and has some terrific insights Mariana.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Hi everyone nice to be back here um
>   yeah we uh wanted to talk today about the fabulous collaboration
>   that we had with uh DCC and the learner sheality looking at you
>   and Carrie of course um I do have a presentation ready so uh if
>   you want me to go ahead and start sharing I can do that uh what
>   do you think.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah please do uh looking forward to it.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: All right let me figure this out.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And Mariana I just want to say that it's been
>   such a pleasure uh working with you uh as as a product manager in
>   this space uh as as I think a lot of us uh doing implementation
>   know that it's all that aside from the data models and the
>   protocols it's really the day-to-day Decisions by designers and
>   product managers uh that are going to make all the difference to
>   the actual usability in the field.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Well thank you and I I do think that
>   what we um have achieved so far is really such a teamwork such a
>   collaboration and I apologize if there's a screaming baby in the
>   background because uh my baby is sick so he's not too far um okay
>   I'm gonna go ahead and share H uh hopefully I can figure it out
>   I'm not super.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Fluent with Team uh with uh me but
>   let's see okay is this looking good.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yes we can see uh can see your screen go ahead
>   yeah.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Where you can see okay fantastic um
>   okay just give me 1 second all right so.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So um we wanted to talk about um ASU
>   and MIT DCC collaboration.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: In creating um ASU pocket and my
>   skills pocket so the 2 wallets that we run out of ASU Enterprise
>   technology.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um and it's been quite a journey um
>   so I will be inviting also Carrie to contribute uh on uh in in
>   udemy to contribute on some of the DCC aspects of this
>   collaboration.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Of course we have been working
>   together for a while in sort of consultation capacity and just
>   staying very in very close touch through through tln.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um but uh here's a kind of a quick
>   introduction of what.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  each of us.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Are doing so as you pocket um it's
>   an edge only verify credential wallet that turns accomplishments
>   in work and learning into professional currency we built it
>   Fuller nurse to store manager chair where fiber credentials and
>   we built it we built this version and this uh kind of final
>   production version um on top of the a learning conial wallets
>   open source code base we also have a second app my skills pocket
>   uh that serves employment Mobility use case they both both run of
>   the same codebase and I'll talk a little bit more about that
>   later.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um and then.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Want to talk about I mean obviously
>   everyone here knows this is you but you want to say anything
>   here.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Oh is yeah um thank you um hey everybody too yes
>   I'm Carol Leo I'm the director of the DCC and the DCC was founded
>   in 2018 to explore aligning education you see cases with
>   verifiable credentials um uh 1 of us over the years I think Kim
>   Duffy and then me and then Dmitri we we've sort of served as
>   co-chairs in this group to sort of align the work with the group
>   at VC I do to align the work with DCC um so as it says here we
>   are are able to advance the understanding and use of privacy
>   enhanced portable verifiable digital academic credentials I think
>   you all know what that means we're talking about open Badges and
>   verifiable credentials um most importantly uh for this call today
>   we do this through open source technology development um and um
>   what we love to do is is put our our software out there and then
>   make it possible for anybody to to use it without attribution um
>   really just take it and build what you need out of it and um I
>   I'm going to like do the high level.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Overview but.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Actually spent quite a bit of time working with
>   ASU on this so um he can also provide us the details on sort of
>   like you know how this happened and the results of that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Take it from there Rihanna call me whenever you
>   need.
> <kerri_lemoie> Original wallet specification that DCC developed
>   in 2021 (we've evolved so much since this!):
>   https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/docs/Learner-Credential-Wallet-Specification-May-2021.pdf

> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Okay okay sounds good um yeah a
>   little bit a very quick little backstory um as you all well some
>   of you may know we have been sort of um working on the wallet for
>   quite some time and we played with various approaches and various
>   Technologies and then at some point we did realize that we do uh
>   need to be really agile and really lightweight we didn't want to
>   get to a point where um even simple um pivots and Bug fixes would
>   take us a long time um so we we wanted to get to the market as
>   fast as possible because we we do all know that it's really fun
>   and this this the space is very exciting it's a big sandbox play
>   playroom that we're all in and we love it but we deeply believe
>   that.
> <kerri_lemoie> The original LCW was developed with support of the
>   US Dept of Ed. Here's the report the DCC provided on that:
>   https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/docs/Open%20Source%20Student%20Wallet%20Final%20Report%20-%20Public%20Web%20Version.pdf

> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Most impactful learning uh comes
>   from accelerating to Market we want real we want a real use cases
>   we wanted real feedback uh challenges right and and to really
>   understand um from people for whom we're building um are we
>   building the right thing how are they using it so this
>   collaboration allowed us to do that um I I will get to this right
>   away next um but it also allowed us to really focus on um kind of
>   while we were already we were giving the foundation the technical
>   Foundation from you know with experts like Dmitri really stinking
>   through all the technology and all the all the cases for the
>   technology and how to make that happen we were able to Overlay
>   um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Laser focus on ux and usability and
>   issue specific workflows over that base.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That allowed us to create something
>   um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I believe it's pretty special.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So this is kind of the timeline um
>   the general tenants of the collaboration um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We worked very closely with Dimitri
>   and his uh in his team um on.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: The architecture and then um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Code updates um and and and changes
>   uh.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: And we worked also very closely with
>   with DCC on um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  sort of.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Standards issues of figuring out all
>   the edge cases and challenges that um we many of us are working
>   on in in implementation of verify verifiable credentials into the
>   real world.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: This is a quick timeline of our
>   collaboration as you see it's pretty tight so we started
>   basically from Ground Zero um absolutely nothing um in October 23
>   where we got the team together both internally ASU team as well
>   as metrie and Kim Duffy was with us for a little while also
>   contributing majorly uh we designed architecture.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Figured out how to you know how to
>   leverage open source open source code um with compliance with ASU
>   um standards and requirements for software development.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  in January.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We forked the code this is a soft
>   Upstream connected Fork um and um also designed the double app
>   support and then February March we um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Did some codebase updates uh also in
>   collaboration with uh GCC uh build pockets ux and functional uh
>   and uh additional functionality and then in April we kicked off
>   uh we already had a live app in both Google Play and apps uh
>   Google Play and um Apple App Stores um and we kicked off a pilot
>   with Ace Hardware um and wrapped it up in late March.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: As you can.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: See the timeline was.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Really quick um and this is all due
>   to our very tight collaboration and the open source Foundation
>   that DCC provides.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: A few key wins um that.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I want to start with so as I already
>   mentioned it took us 6 months to go from zero to live um with
>   production standards compliant wallet in just 6 months we only
>   have 1 full-time developer supporting this work with of course
>   major contributions from ASU internal devops DCC but I will check
>   here I think I saw your name on the call was the 1 who uh really
>   led the work so that's that's all it took um and then after our
>   testing with uh both ASU students and Ace Hardware Frontline
>   employees who range in age from 17 to 71 um we achieved a 97%
>   customer satisfaction score.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So we think it's pretty nice.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um continuing here going in a little
>   bit more detail and I would like to uh well I'll run through this
>   and then if there are any questions I'll shoot those over to
>   abishek because he would be able to.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Talk in more depth about this um so
>   some of the ux enhancements that we implemented on top of uh
>   learner credential wallets uh workflows were.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um we made a conscious Choice after.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Quite extensive discussions to drop
>   choppy and switch over to VC API because that provided um massive
>   ux simplification and and and it just allowed us to streamline
>   onboarding massively for folks basically removing I think 3 or 4
>   uh steps uh which from all our conversations uh with just normal
>   people who use our who have used our wallet over time um is
>   really what's what's needed um we love the tech but people also.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I don't see value add of some of the
>   things.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We sometimes may take for granted.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So this was our choice to make it
>   accessible more accessible and easy to use for people we added on
>   boarding workflow that uh sort of well work through walk through
>   that sort of let people uh scroll through some screens and read a
>   little bit of what this is what it does uh what the app does what
>   a verifiable credentials um things like that and then we recently
>   have reworked the share flow um which I'll I'll demo in a little
>   bit.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Well not demo I have some
>   screenshots but you can also see it if you install the apps um
>   we.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We work the share flow um based on
>   user feedback that it was a little bit.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Overly complex uh or just you know
>   had lots of lots of buttons lots of steps um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So now it's quite simplified.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: In terms of feature additions we uh.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Added verifiable presentation and we
>   uh our team.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Has worked has contributed back to
>   the open source code base uh to support verified presentation.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Added oh this didn't didn't quite uh
>   bullet correctly um we added filtering sorting we are about to
>   release smart resume pipeline Integrations um folks can get ASU
>   credentials directly from The Trusted learner Network.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um and then to run to apps of the
>   same code base we added uh Feature Feature Flags.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Uh we now have 2 apps like I said my
>   skills pocket and ASU pocket and uh they have the same design
>   system they have the same codebase and there's just a little
>   switch that helps us switch between the 2 and tag features that
>   we want in 1 or the other so that allows us to really run lean
>   and mean.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Uh I will I want to pause here
>   anyone uh I don't know Demetri abishek anything else you want to
>   contribute to kind of Express contribute to this part.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah uh so just want to say a couple couple
>   more comments uh there and first of all I think that this project
>   very much demonstrates the.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  The sort of Ideal case uh situation with with
>   obviously always with asterisks and caveats but the success story
>   of uh open source right like the the ability for a team to come
>   in from scratch and ship uh a mobile app let alone 2 mobile apps.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  We we're going to return and talk about the 2
>   apps off of the same codebase which I think is is an interesting
>   use case uh just in a handful of months like 5 months or whatever
>   is is incredible um.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  I also wanted to touch on the uh just as a
>   comments with choppy so I think this this points to um.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  We we should we should do another session.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Here on VC edu on chappie and getting requests
>   and credentials in and out of wallets.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Because the the situation is constantly
>   evolving and what we've what we've seen is that uh Jackie at the
>   moment is really good for interfacing between applications and
>   web wallets.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  In interfacing between applications and mobile
>   wallets there's a lot more challenges just just because uh the
>   affordances that were given by the mobile operating system
>   vendors are are like very narrow so we have to squeeze this whole
>   world of credentials through like 1 or 2 narrow channels
>   essentially everything has to go through.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh Universal app links um URLs so uh there's
>   definitely is a good reminder for me to uh come back on another
>   session and talk about uh where we're at with the various wallet
>   apis uh but back over to you.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah thank you yeah that was a that
>   and and we are um we're actually in the process of re-enabling
>   choppy and and and exploring how that might work in this case
>   where.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um a mobile only wallet interfaces
>   with the web app.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um we'll be happy to report on that
>   but yeah very interesting topic I think we we get to talk about
>   this in 1 of the future sessions.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So yeah so this is an example of um
>   kind of the work chair flow you can also see the branding.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah some of the things also here
>   that are sort of new um is the filtering and sorting
>   functionality.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: And then on the previous slide you
>   did you did see that um there's an option to go connect directly
>   to tln and get all ASU achievements um and then as other
>   institutions on board and to onto the trustee Learning Network
>   we'll have.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Some of the challenges and Lessons
>   Learned um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Well happy to report that we did
>   resolve all of these so.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um balancing institutional needs so
>   kind of our pace and our needs with open source roadmap um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Some Upstream dependencies that
>   existed the biggest 1 being the react the bay native update to
>   Expo so that was uh a topic of many conversations of quite a few
>   hours of development.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  um and.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: In interacting and and uh aligning
>   with Demetrius team.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um resource sharing of course um
>   ownership of various tasks uh working with multiple code bases
>   and uh all of the dependencies that existed and then reconciling
>   um issue or Registries um so we did also stood up a very
>   lightweight we see issue on the Verma framework to uh to support
>   my skills pocket so that outside of ASU employment Mobility use
>   case.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um so then uh we had to go back to
>   uh we went back to the to uh.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: To see his issue registry cross
>   register everything.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That was fun.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  if you.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: New uh contributions that Pockets
>   team uh made to verify Plus.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So as I already mentioned uh the
>   functionality to display verifiable presentations within the
>   within verify Plus.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um the issue client version upgrade
>   and enhanced for industry display logic.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um I can.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Do you want to talk more about like
>   about this briefly because this is your domain.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um yeah okay um and then what's next
>   for us um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Starting to so now um both tail and
>   pocket are in production we're starting to roll it out to Au
>   students.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  to get a.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Variety of their credentials and
>   carry them through life.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: During their ASU Learning Journey
>   lifelong Learning Journey and post Learning Journey uh we also
>   are uh kicking off pilot with over a thousand reuse a lot of
>   Community College Learners who are obtaining uh National Retail
>   Federation industry recognized credentials through college and
>   then using them to um find jobs in pipeline as so that's a big
>   thing for us we were also working on some fun AI stuff with AI
>   job recommendations um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That I can talk about later and this
>   is do you want to do you guys want to talk a little bit about
>   what sort of on your in your immediate line.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Sure absolutely and um 1 of the things that I
>   think relates to this is that we've been working on this issue a
>   registry project with credential engine um which also we've been
>   talking to ASU about um so and the multiple display of uh issuers
>   in in various Registries has been like a key discussion as part
>   of that work too so there's a lot of overlap there as part of
>   that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Working on at the decency 1 is uh we're pretty
>   heavily involved in a Sprint right now related to the issue of
>   registry project um this has to do with uh de developing a
>   prototype with a recommendations for how issue registry is and
>   for Learning and employment records uh could be standardized and
>   then we are adopting uh the learner credential wallet code and
>   the verifiable uh uh web verifier code so I verify a plus code to
>   use that um and which we will have like others who will be
>   participating in hosting prototype Registries and do verification
>   too so we we together we've all been talking about that a little
>   bit more.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Um and then also uh actually something where we're
>   working on right now that will happen I think within a week or so
>   we're pretty close to launching it is um the addition of opening
>   up baked badges in the learner credential wallet um if some of
>   you are familiar with how open badges used to work they were
>   these images right the reason the images were primarily is that
>   the data was embedded into these images and then they could be
>   emailed around and the data could be extracted and and used and
>   they didn't happen very much most open badges just get shared on
>   a web pages and uploading those those quote baked images uh
>   didn't work very well and and platforms because uh you know
>   platforms like LinkedIn and Facebook strip that data out for
>   obvious security reasons so um but we do see that um the credly
>   platform is doing that and so we are making sure that any badges
>   that are incredibly could be imported into while it's like
>   learning a credential wallet and and ASC pocket and others when
>   they're ready to adopt that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Um so we we think this is pretty important to uh
>   sort of see not not to encourage the baking necessarily but to
>   encourage the fact that credentials can be moved out of closed
>   systems into a more more portable systems like wallets.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Um dbg anything else or anybody else in the DCC
>   team that's here that would like to add that I haven't mentioned.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah um a lot of I'll add a couple more things
>   so as as the VC field sort of um evolves on the specs mature
>   there's always an ongoing like okay there's a new version of
>   verify the credential spec right we've uh the move to 2.0 so uh
>   we we added support for those uh as new signature methods and and
>   different key types mature uh we we're also adding them adding
>   support for those new signatures to the wallet so that sort of
>   thing and and 1 other exciting um.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Development in uh.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Area of edge wallets is this notion of.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Adding cloud storage to Edge wallets.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  1 Of the.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> here's the RISE Up pathway in
>   CTDL
>   https://credentialfinder.org/pathway/8/National_Retail_Federation_Foundation_RISE_Up_Pathway

> Dmitri Zagidulin:  What what are the major advantages to Edge
>   only mobile wallets and what do we mean by that we mean that
>   credentials and keys and bids.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Are only stored on the mobile phone there's no
>   server component so 1 of the 1 of the reasons that ASU was able
>   to uh deploy this so fast and 1 of the reasons that DCC
>   originally um went with with the edge only design is.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  It makes writing the privacy policy really
>   easy.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  It makes writing the terms and service and
>   getting it by the legal teams really easy it's like what's your
>   privacy policy we literally don't have any of your data it's all
>   on your phone that's it right so very short so so that's a huge
>   advantage in terms of uh being able to get it out there and start
>   getting feedback from the users the downside of course is.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  What about sharing how do you share
>   credentials right the convoluted analogy that I always love to
>   make is with um landline phones and answering machines.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh landline phones were great.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh infrastructure wise but of course what
>   happens when you're not at at your phone you want to be able to.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  You want to have a machine still be able to
>   pick up the phone record the messages so you can come back to it
>   similarly with Edge only wallets.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Your phone your mobile wallet is not always
>   on.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh not always accessible and even when it is
>   connected to the internet there's no way to for anybody else who
>   you want to share credential with to reach into your wallet and
>   request something and so on so long story short.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  1 Of the things that uh we had to do at DC and
>   and at Su as well.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Was when it came to sharing credentials.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  We needed a limited Cloud component only for
>   public only credentials again to keep that privacy policy short.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And and manageable.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  We we have this this notion of when you share
>   a credential it gets uploaded to uh a public server.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So that you can just email a link to a
>   component.
> <kate_giovacchini,_tln> Thanks all, I have to run, I'm sorry !
>   PLanning an event next week is hard work
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Um and and by the way 1 1 of the 1 of the
>   reasons I love being involved in these projects is each 1 of
>   these features.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Needs so much work.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Terms of uh.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Wordsmithing uiux design how do you write the
>   help page right how do you like you get these credentials in
>   front of students and in front of Administrators and there's just
>   worlds of how do we explain this stuff how you know how do we
>   handle errors how do we handle successes how do we show that the
>   verification succeeded.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  How do we show the various uh various ways in
>   which verification can fail and still uh sort of get across the
>   the risk factor to the user all all those all those topics very
>   interesting but back to uh the original question of so what what
>   else is on our road map uh so 1 1 exciting projects uh dcc's uh
>   doing right now is exploring further this notion of wallet
>   attached storage of okay we did some some early prototypes of
>   this is how you share a credential.
> <ildiko_mazar> The portability of digital credentials is vital in
>   the context of lifelong learning where people get their
>   credentials from multiple sources and might store in multiple
>   places in parallel and over time. But it's also very important
>   that these DCs are comparable. Do you have a minimum
>   (recommended) data content for the credentials that are stored in
>   the ASU Pocket wallets?
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  But then can we take it farther can we say
>   hey.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Since user since you already have a wallet
>   that manages cryptographic keys for you what does that mean for
>   storing things in a sharable way in the cloud.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:   Can we we.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Being able to share public only credential can
>   we add down the line Access Control to it.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Can we uh can we add sync between different
>   wallets or different devices right like it's it's a very rich and
>   interesting area to to explore.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:   And and we look.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Forward to um coming back and and.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Explaining our approach uh sharing our
>   findings in it and so on so uh definitely um going to be more to
>   hear from us about what our Dutch storage I think I'll pause
>   there um back to you Gary.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Oh no that's great thank you to me I'll actually
>   hand it back over to Mariana.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Okay yeah thank you um yeah lots of
>   these things are also on our minds um we do we are planning.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: A research Sprinter to in regards
>   to.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Selective disclosures and 1-to-1
>   sharings and uh uh all all sorts of things like that so I'm sure
>   we'll talk a lot with you guys about this um and I just yeah I uh
>   I love that we have an opportunity to kind of build step by step
>   build this um this future what this actually looks like of what
>   all these uncertainties look like and then um have immediate
>   almost instant validation.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Markets with real users when we make
>   these decisions.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That's it Q&A.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah so let's uh let's get some questions from
>   uh from the audience I see 1 um uh 1 great question that I want
>   to make sure it doesn't uh get lost uh from from ildico in chat
>   though ildico if I don't know if you want to.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh hop on the Queue to uh to explain it more
>   but I think uh it'll go asking hey what.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Understand the question correctly.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  What's the data model here do we have a speck
>   of how.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  A credential needs to look in order to be
>   displayed on these wallets uh and the answer is it's obviously
>   evolving uh at the moment we started with open badges version 3.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  We start with obvious credentials just because
>   it's uh.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Well known in our corner of the VC field
>   education field and so if it's a verifiable credential sorry if
>   it's a open badges version 3 it'll probably display in the wallet
>   uh of course we don't have support for all of the fields there
>   are many many many fields in.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Um open badges version 3.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Support uh for each 1 uh we will take some
>   time on the road map and and we are hoping that uh advances with
>   uh the render method will be able to take care some of.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Some of that heavy lifting.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So yeah so we're we're starting with uh really
>   basic credentials such as uh open badges.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Going from there but uh please feel free to
>   ask other questions.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah also to just quickly add to
>   that um so we did yeah we did launch uh pocket with 2 oh sorry um
>   I have a contributor here um to uh.
> <ildiko_mazar> <3
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: 2 schemas so 1 is obviously uh for.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Of credentials and then the other 1
>   is the employment record to support uh you know to support that
>   so that is interesting Dmitri helped us create the initial schema
>   um and then we based on again real real life feedback and and
>   sort of uh fields and and data that was necessary um.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Will be iterating on it and and
>   figuring out how to make that look more aligned to.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um just what the folks perceive to
>   be of value to share and what the the verifiers perceive to be of
>   value to know about the employment so that is evolving and it's
>   really fun.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Oh yeah that's that's a that's a good point I
>   completely forgot uh to mention that aspect that uh there there's
>   some really really exciting developments on in the resume and
>   employment and and HR uh filled in these wallets uh so.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  There's there's a support for the employment
>   credential that ASU uh has shipped uh there's a.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Couple of uh road map items that uh Phil Long
>   and the T3 Chamber of Commerce Foundation is working on.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And and it's relevant to us in the education
>   field because it's sort of the the complement the.
> <ildiko_mazar> That would be very interesting to keep an eye on -
>   perceived value for the various stakeholders involved (educators,
>   employers)
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Functionality uh between education and and
>   employment and how how the 2 interactive.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah so really important uh illico please uh.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And you know you're spot on you you touch on 1
>   of the most important and 1 of the most um.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Often asked questions perceived value to
>   stakeholders.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  End of the day we've got we've got these.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Data models we've got these protocols we got
>   these apps user interface all this stuff.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  What's the perceived value to the stakeholders
>   what's like.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  What does this stuff actually do and.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh and that that's an ongoing challenge to us
>   a DCC okay we can talk about that and as well as um.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  You uh just want to highlight some of the some
>   of the work uh both Mariana and Brooke who's on the call.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:   As well.
> <ildiko_mazar> And how to foster the provision of those values in
>   future DCs to be issued by education providers
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Interfacing with various stakeholders on the
>   uh greater Network Greater Community side the the employers the
>   admission desks uh all of those yeah uh eternally interesting
>   topic.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Do you wanna.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah I would be more than happy to
>   talk to anyone about the findings that we had from our Ace
>   Hardware pilot there's actually um a few articles that were
>   published um based on that pilot that was very insightful um so
>   happy to talk more about this at some point.
> <ildiko_mazar> Please share URLs, if you can
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I can find the links yeah there are
>   1 of them is on my LinkedIn but I I'll grab it yeah.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Not to put you on the spot but do you want to
>   uh share a couple of findings that that that struck you that are
>   the top of your mind.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Let me just give me a minute I'll
>   I'll pull up the deck.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah of course of course yeah of course uh
>   meanwhile other questions uh the folks have.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  And so on.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Well uh Mariana is is looking at the decks I
>   just want to comment real quick on 1 of the things that uh we
>   often get asked at DCC is this notion of whether to Rebrand re
>   label a wallet or use an existing.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  An existing app just unchanged like learning
>   credential wallet and.
> <kerri_lemoie> Think we got cut off by jistsi
> <kerri_lemoie> LCW at Open Wallet Foundation (still led by DCC):
>   https://github.com/openwallet-foundation-labs/learner-credential-wallet

> <sharon_leu> I might have misheard during the presentation, did
>   you mention that you were doing obv3 bc it was familiar - does
>   that mean you are experimenting with other vcs that aren't obv3?
> <kerri_lemoie> We encourage PRs!
>   https://github.com/openwallet-foundation-labs/learner-credential-wallet

> <kerri_lemoie> (and issues)
> <kerri_lemoie> Thank you!
> <sharon_leu> Thanks!
> <kristen_franklin> :+1:
> <brooke_lipsitz_(asu)> :clap:
> <beth_-_gobekli> Thank you!
> <ildiko_mazar> Thank you, Marianna, Kerri, Abhishek and Dmitri
>


--
Manu Sporny - https://www.linkedin.com/in/manusporny/

Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
https://www.digitalbazaar.com/