[MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2025-02-24

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-02-24-vc-education/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2025-02-24-vc-education/audio.ogg

A video recording is also available at:

https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2025-02-24.mp4

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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2025-02-24

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2025Feb/0003.html
Organizer:
  Kerri Lemoie, Simone Ravaioli, Dmitri Zagidulin
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Dmitri Zagidulin, Rob Coyle, Curtis Indyke, Nis Jespersen , Eric 
  Shepherd, Kate Giovacchini, TLN, Stuart Freeman, Jack Durkin, 
  Kerri Lemoie, Ildiko Mazar, Kulpreet Singh, James Chartrand, 
  TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Beth - 
  Gobekli, Marianna Milkis, ASU Pocket, Amruth Gouda, Kristen 
  Franklin, Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Colin, Jeff O / HumanOS, 
  Deb Everhart, Chandi Cumaranatunge, David Ward, Sharon Leu, Nate 
  Otto

<kate_giovacchini,_tln> Good morning ya'll!
<kerri_lemoie> Hello all!
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah there we go all right uh so does anybody 
  does anybody new here uh in the group and wants to uh.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Introduced themselves or those who haven't 
  done that in a while may want to hop on the Queue and reintroduce 
  we use the queue by just raising the hands or typing Q Plus in 
  jitsi chat.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh Beth go ahead.
Beth_-_Gobekli: Hey everybody um I'm Beth I'm from Gobekli uh I'm 
  joined today just part as um coyote had a conflict so uh excited 
  to see what and learn what's going on um here in the group and 
  and see what's being presented today.
<kerri_lemoie> Hi Beth!
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thank you welcome uh glad to have another 
  another person from the Gobekli team uh we love what they're 
  doing.
Beth_-_Gobekli: Well thank you yeah we're we're we love being 
  here and I've heard great things about this uh this group so.
Beth_-_Gobekli: Thanks for having me.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Anyone else want to hop on the queue.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right in that case let's move on to 
  communion announcements does anybody have.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Ments of conferences uh webinars and so on uh 
  coming up.
<beth_-_gobekli> Hi Kerri!
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We of course have iaw the internet identity 
  Workshop coming up in April I believe.
Brooke_Lipsitz_(ASU): Uh 1 at Tech is coming to Phoenix next week 
  um and the tln is hosting a salon event uh wrapping up that 
  conference so if anyone's planning on coming in for 1 at Tech 
  please let us know and we'd love to have you at our Salon event.
<kate_giovacchini,_tln> We are going to have fun
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Excellent Carrie you're up next.
Kerri Lemoie:  Awesome hi everybody I will definitely be stopping 
  by that Salon event.
Kerri Lemoie:  I think TL and it's awesome um and I'll also be at 
  the 1 at Tech digital credentials Summit next week um on various 
  uh sessions 1 with Georgia Tech to talk about digital degrees um 
  and um all the the challenges of applying open badges to that uh 
  with the credential engine test water is for registry project 
  with digital promise to talk about open source badge issuing 
  software.
Kerri Lemoie:  A couple others I'm sorry that I'm not forgetting 
  in front of me but um 1 I think that is really interesting though 
  be a general session on um trusted credentials and quality and 
  I'm really looking forward to that 1 specifically so we can talk 
  a lot about that.
Kerri Lemoie:  So hope to see you all there too it'd be great.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thanks Gary sounds sounds exciting I can't 
  wait to hear all about it afterwards.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Anyone else uh with announcements.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right in that case let us move to our main 
  agenda uh we're pleased to have uh Kate do you have acini and 
  Cari Le muy and anyone else from from their teams uh talk about 
  the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh progress on the various open source uh 
  wallets Kate over to you.
Kate_Giovacchini,_TLN: Thank you Demetri its way with great 
  pleasure that I actually turned the mic over to my colleague uh 
  Mariana Milas who's been the product manager over ASU pocket for 
  some time and has some terrific insights Mariana.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Hi everyone nice to be back here um 
  yeah we uh wanted to talk today about the fabulous collaboration 
  that we had with uh DCC and the learner sheality looking at you 
  and Carrie of course um I do have a presentation ready so uh if 
  you want me to go ahead and start sharing I can do that uh what 
  do you think.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah please do uh looking forward to it.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: All right let me figure this out.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And Mariana I just want to say that it's been 
  such a pleasure uh working with you uh as as a product manager in 
  this space uh as as I think a lot of us uh doing implementation 
  know that it's all that aside from the data models and the 
  protocols it's really the day-to-day Decisions by designers and 
  product managers uh that are going to make all the difference to 
  the actual usability in the field.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Well thank you and I I do think that 
  what we um have achieved so far is really such a teamwork such a 
  collaboration and I apologize if there's a screaming baby in the 
  background because uh my baby is sick so he's not too far um okay 
  I'm gonna go ahead and share H uh hopefully I can figure it out 
  I'm not super.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Fluent with Team uh with uh me but 
  let's see okay is this looking good.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yes we can see uh can see your screen go ahead 
  yeah.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Where you can see okay fantastic um 
  okay just give me 1 second all right so.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So um we wanted to talk about um ASU 
  and MIT DCC collaboration.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: In creating um ASU pocket and my 
  skills pocket so the 2 wallets that we run out of ASU Enterprise 
  technology.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um and it's been quite a journey um 
  so I will be inviting also Carrie to contribute uh on uh in in 
  udemy to contribute on some of the DCC aspects of this 
  collaboration.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Of course we have been working 
  together for a while in sort of consultation capacity and just 
  staying very in very close touch through through tln.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um but uh here's a kind of a quick 
  introduction of what.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  each of us.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Are doing so as you pocket um it's 
  an edge only verify credential wallet that turns accomplishments 
  in work and learning into professional currency we built it 
  Fuller nurse to store manager chair where fiber credentials and 
  we built it we built this version and this uh kind of final 
  production version um on top of the a learning conial wallets 
  open source code base we also have a second app my skills pocket 
  uh that serves employment Mobility use case they both both run of 
  the same codebase and I'll talk a little bit more about that 
  later.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um and then.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Want to talk about I mean obviously 
  everyone here knows this is you but you want to say anything 
  here.
Kerri Lemoie:  Oh is yeah um thank you um hey everybody too yes 
  I'm Carol Leo I'm the director of the DCC and the DCC was founded 
  in 2018 to explore aligning education you see cases with 
  verifiable credentials um uh 1 of us over the years I think Kim 
  Duffy and then me and then Dmitri we we've sort of served as 
  co-chairs in this group to sort of align the work with the group 
  at VC I do to align the work with DCC um so as it says here we 
  are are able to advance the understanding and use of privacy 
  enhanced portable verifiable digital academic credentials I think 
  you all know what that means we're talking about open Badges and 
  verifiable credentials um most importantly uh for this call today 
  we do this through open source technology development um and um 
  what we love to do is is put our our software out there and then 
  make it possible for anybody to to use it without attribution um 
  really just take it and build what you need out of it and um I 
  I'm going to like do the high level.
Kerri Lemoie:   Overview but.
Kerri Lemoie:  Actually spent quite a bit of time working with 
  ASU on this so um he can also provide us the details on sort of 
  like you know how this happened and the results of that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Take it from there Rihanna call me whenever you 
  need.
<kerri_lemoie> Original wallet specification that DCC developed 
  in 2021 (we've evolved so much since this!): 
  https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/docs/Learner-Credential-Wallet-Specification-May-2021.pdf
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Okay okay sounds good um yeah a 
  little bit a very quick little backstory um as you all well some 
  of you may know we have been sort of um working on the wallet for 
  quite some time and we played with various approaches and various 
  Technologies and then at some point we did realize that we do uh 
  need to be really agile and really lightweight we didn't want to 
  get to a point where um even simple um pivots and Bug fixes would 
  take us a long time um so we we wanted to get to the market as 
  fast as possible because we we do all know that it's really fun 
  and this this the space is very exciting it's a big sandbox play 
  playroom that we're all in and we love it but we deeply believe 
  that.
<kerri_lemoie> The original LCW was developed with support of the 
  US Dept of Ed. Here's the report the DCC provided on that: 
  https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/docs/Open%20Source%20Student%20Wallet%20Final%20Report%20-%20Public%20Web%20Version.pdf
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Most impactful learning uh comes 
  from accelerating to Market we want real we want a real use cases 
  we wanted real feedback uh challenges right and and to really 
  understand um from people for whom we're building um are we 
  building the right thing how are they using it so this 
  collaboration allowed us to do that um I I will get to this right 
  away next um but it also allowed us to really focus on um kind of 
  while we were already we were giving the foundation the technical 
  Foundation from you know with experts like Dmitri really stinking 
  through all the technology and all the all the cases for the 
  technology and how to make that happen we were able to Overlay 
  um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Laser focus on ux and usability and 
  issue specific workflows over that base.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That allowed us to create something 
  um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I believe it's pretty special.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So this is kind of the timeline um 
  the general tenants of the collaboration um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We worked very closely with Dimitri 
  and his uh in his team um on.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: The architecture and then um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Code updates um and and and changes 
  uh.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: And we worked also very closely with 
  with DCC on um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  sort of.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Standards issues of figuring out all 
  the edge cases and challenges that um we many of us are working 
  on in in implementation of verify verifiable credentials into the 
  real world.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: This is a quick timeline of our 
  collaboration as you see it's pretty tight so we started 
  basically from Ground Zero um absolutely nothing um in October 23 
  where we got the team together both internally ASU team as well 
  as metrie and Kim Duffy was with us for a little while also 
  contributing majorly uh we designed architecture.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Figured out how to you know how to 
  leverage open source open source code um with compliance with ASU 
  um standards and requirements for software development.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  in January.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We forked the code this is a soft 
  Upstream connected Fork um and um also designed the double app 
  support and then February March we um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Did some codebase updates uh also in 
  collaboration with uh GCC uh build pockets ux and functional uh 
  and uh additional functionality and then in April we kicked off 
  uh we already had a live app in both Google Play and apps uh 
  Google Play and um Apple App Stores um and we kicked off a pilot 
  with Ace Hardware um and wrapped it up in late March.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: As you can.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: See the timeline was.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Really quick um and this is all due 
  to our very tight collaboration and the open source Foundation 
  that DCC provides.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: A few key wins um that.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I want to start with so as I already 
  mentioned it took us 6 months to go from zero to live um with 
  production standards compliant wallet in just 6 months we only 
  have 1 full-time developer supporting this work with of course 
  major contributions from ASU internal devops DCC but I will check 
  here I think I saw your name on the call was the 1 who uh really 
  led the work so that's that's all it took um and then after our 
  testing with uh both ASU students and Ace Hardware Frontline 
  employees who range in age from 17 to 71 um we achieved a 97% 
  customer satisfaction score.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So we think it's pretty nice.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um continuing here going in a little 
  bit more detail and I would like to uh well I'll run through this 
  and then if there are any questions I'll shoot those over to 
  abishek because he would be able to.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Talk in more depth about this um so 
  some of the ux enhancements that we implemented on top of uh 
  learner credential wallets uh workflows were.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um we made a conscious Choice after.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Quite extensive discussions to drop 
  choppy and switch over to VC API because that provided um massive 
  ux simplification and and and it just allowed us to streamline 
  onboarding massively for folks basically removing I think 3 or 4 
  uh steps uh which from all our conversations uh with just normal 
  people who use our who have used our wallet over time um is 
  really what's what's needed um we love the tech but people also.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I don't see value add of some of the 
  things.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We sometimes may take for granted.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So this was our choice to make it 
  accessible more accessible and easy to use for people we added on 
  boarding workflow that uh sort of well work through walk through 
  that sort of let people uh scroll through some screens and read a 
  little bit of what this is what it does uh what the app does what 
  a verifiable credentials um things like that and then we recently 
  have reworked the share flow um which I'll I'll demo in a little 
  bit.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Well not demo I have some 
  screenshots but you can also see it if you install the apps um 
  we.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: We work the share flow um based on 
  user feedback that it was a little bit.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Overly complex uh or just you know 
  had lots of lots of buttons lots of steps um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So now it's quite simplified.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: In terms of feature additions we uh.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Added verifiable presentation and we 
  uh our team.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Has worked has contributed back to 
  the open source code base uh to support verified presentation.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Added oh this didn't didn't quite uh 
  bullet correctly um we added filtering sorting we are about to 
  release smart resume pipeline Integrations um folks can get ASU 
  credentials directly from The Trusted learner Network.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um and then to run to apps of the 
  same code base we added uh Feature Feature Flags.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Uh we now have 2 apps like I said my 
  skills pocket and ASU pocket and uh they have the same design 
  system they have the same codebase and there's just a little 
  switch that helps us switch between the 2 and tag features that 
  we want in 1 or the other so that allows us to really run lean 
  and mean.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Uh I will I want to pause here 
  anyone uh I don't know Demetri abishek anything else you want to 
  contribute to kind of Express contribute to this part.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah uh so just want to say a couple couple 
  more comments uh there and first of all I think that this project 
  very much demonstrates the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The sort of Ideal case uh situation with with 
  obviously always with asterisks and caveats but the success story 
  of uh open source right like the the ability for a team to come 
  in from scratch and ship uh a mobile app let alone 2 mobile apps.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We we're going to return and talk about the 2 
  apps off of the same codebase which I think is is an interesting 
  use case uh just in a handful of months like 5 months or whatever 
  is is incredible um.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I also wanted to touch on the uh just as a 
  comments with choppy so I think this this points to um.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We we should we should do another session.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Here on VC edu on chappie and getting requests 
  and credentials in and out of wallets.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Because the the situation is constantly 
  evolving and what we've what we've seen is that uh Jackie at the 
  moment is really good for interfacing between applications and 
  web wallets.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  In interfacing between applications and mobile 
  wallets there's a lot more challenges just just because uh the 
  affordances that were given by the mobile operating system 
  vendors are are like very narrow so we have to squeeze this whole 
  world of credentials through like 1 or 2 narrow channels 
  essentially everything has to go through.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh Universal app links um URLs so uh there's 
  definitely is a good reminder for me to uh come back on another 
  session and talk about uh where we're at with the various wallet 
  apis uh but back over to you.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah thank you yeah that was a that 
  and and we are um we're actually in the process of re-enabling 
  choppy and and and exploring how that might work in this case 
  where.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um a mobile only wallet interfaces 
  with the web app.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um we'll be happy to report on that 
  but yeah very interesting topic I think we we get to talk about 
  this in 1 of the future sessions.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So yeah so this is an example of um 
  kind of the work chair flow you can also see the branding.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah some of the things also here 
  that are sort of new um is the filtering and sorting 
  functionality.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: And then on the previous slide you 
  did you did see that um there's an option to go connect directly 
  to tln and get all ASU achievements um and then as other 
  institutions on board and to onto the trustee Learning Network 
  we'll have.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Some of the challenges and Lessons 
  Learned um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Well happy to report that we did 
  resolve all of these so.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um balancing institutional needs so 
  kind of our pace and our needs with open source roadmap um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Some Upstream dependencies that 
  existed the biggest 1 being the react the bay native update to 
  Expo so that was uh a topic of many conversations of quite a few 
  hours of development.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  um and.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: In interacting and and uh aligning 
  with Demetrius team.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um resource sharing of course um 
  ownership of various tasks uh working with multiple code bases 
  and uh all of the dependencies that existed and then reconciling 
  um issue or Registries um so we did also stood up a very 
  lightweight we see issue on the Verma framework to uh to support 
  my skills pocket so that outside of ASU employment Mobility use 
  case.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um so then uh we had to go back to 
  uh we went back to the to uh.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: To see his issue registry cross 
  register everything.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That was fun.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  if you.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: New uh contributions that Pockets 
  team uh made to verify Plus.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: So as I already mentioned uh the 
  functionality to display verifiable presentations within the 
  within verify Plus.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um the issue client version upgrade 
  and enhanced for industry display logic.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um I can.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Do you want to talk more about like 
  about this briefly because this is your domain.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um yeah okay um and then what's next 
  for us um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Starting to so now um both tail and 
  pocket are in production we're starting to roll it out to Au 
  students.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  to get a.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Variety of their credentials and 
  carry them through life.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: During their ASU Learning Journey 
  lifelong Learning Journey and post Learning Journey uh we also 
  are uh kicking off pilot with over a thousand reuse a lot of 
  Community College Learners who are obtaining uh National Retail 
  Federation industry recognized credentials through college and 
  then using them to um find jobs in pipeline as so that's a big 
  thing for us we were also working on some fun AI stuff with AI 
  job recommendations um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That I can talk about later and this 
  is do you want to do you guys want to talk a little bit about 
  what sort of on your in your immediate line.
Kerri Lemoie:  Sure absolutely and um 1 of the things that I 
  think relates to this is that we've been working on this issue a 
  registry project with credential engine um which also we've been 
  talking to ASU about um so and the multiple display of uh issuers 
  in in various Registries has been like a key discussion as part 
  of that work too so there's a lot of overlap there as part of 
  that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Working on at the decency 1 is uh we're pretty 
  heavily involved in a Sprint right now related to the issue of 
  registry project um this has to do with uh de developing a 
  prototype with a recommendations for how issue registry is and 
  for Learning and employment records uh could be standardized and 
  then we are adopting uh the learner credential wallet code and 
  the verifiable uh uh web verifier code so I verify a plus code to 
  use that um and which we will have like others who will be 
  participating in hosting prototype Registries and do verification 
  too so we we together we've all been talking about that a little 
  bit more.
Kerri Lemoie:  Um and then also uh actually something where we're 
  working on right now that will happen I think within a week or so 
  we're pretty close to launching it is um the addition of opening 
  up baked badges in the learner credential wallet um if some of 
  you are familiar with how open badges used to work they were 
  these images right the reason the images were primarily is that 
  the data was embedded into these images and then they could be 
  emailed around and the data could be extracted and and used and 
  they didn't happen very much most open badges just get shared on 
  a web pages and uploading those those quote baked images uh 
  didn't work very well and and platforms because uh you know 
  platforms like LinkedIn and Facebook strip that data out for 
  obvious security reasons so um but we do see that um the credly 
  platform is doing that and so we are making sure that any badges 
  that are incredibly could be imported into while it's like 
  learning a credential wallet and and ASC pocket and others when 
  they're ready to adopt that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Um so we we think this is pretty important to uh 
  sort of see not not to encourage the baking necessarily but to 
  encourage the fact that credentials can be moved out of closed 
  systems into a more more portable systems like wallets.
Kerri Lemoie:  Um dbg anything else or anybody else in the DCC 
  team that's here that would like to add that I haven't mentioned.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah um a lot of I'll add a couple more things 
  so as as the VC field sort of um evolves on the specs mature 
  there's always an ongoing like okay there's a new version of 
  verify the credential spec right we've uh the move to 2.0 so uh 
  we we added support for those uh as new signature methods and and 
  different key types mature uh we we're also adding them adding 
  support for those new signatures to the wallet so that sort of 
  thing and and 1 other exciting um.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Development in uh.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Area of edge wallets is this notion of.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Adding cloud storage to Edge wallets.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  1 Of the.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> here's the RISE Up pathway in 
  CTDL 
  https://credentialfinder.org/pathway/8/National_Retail_Federation_Foundation_RISE_Up_Pathway
Dmitri Zagidulin:  What what are the major advantages to Edge 
  only mobile wallets and what do we mean by that we mean that 
  credentials and keys and bids.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Are only stored on the mobile phone there's no 
  server component so 1 of the 1 of the reasons that ASU was able 
  to uh deploy this so fast and 1 of the reasons that DCC 
  originally um went with with the edge only design is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  It makes writing the privacy policy really 
  easy.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  It makes writing the terms and service and 
  getting it by the legal teams really easy it's like what's your 
  privacy policy we literally don't have any of your data it's all 
  on your phone that's it right so very short so so that's a huge 
  advantage in terms of uh being able to get it out there and start 
  getting feedback from the users the downside of course is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  What about sharing how do you share 
  credentials right the convoluted analogy that I always love to 
  make is with um landline phones and answering machines.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh landline phones were great.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh infrastructure wise but of course what 
  happens when you're not at at your phone you want to be able to.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  You want to have a machine still be able to 
  pick up the phone record the messages so you can come back to it 
  similarly with Edge only wallets.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Your phone your mobile wallet is not always 
  on.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh not always accessible and even when it is 
  connected to the internet there's no way to for anybody else who 
  you want to share credential with to reach into your wallet and 
  request something and so on so long story short.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  1 Of the things that uh we had to do at DC and 
  and at Su as well.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Was when it came to sharing credentials.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We needed a limited Cloud component only for 
  public only credentials again to keep that privacy policy short.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And and manageable.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We we have this this notion of when you share 
  a credential it gets uploaded to uh a public server.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So that you can just email a link to a 
  component.
<kate_giovacchini,_tln> Thanks all, I have to run, I'm sorry ! 
  PLanning an event next week is hard work
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Um and and by the way 1 1 of the 1 of the 
  reasons I love being involved in these projects is each 1 of 
  these features.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Needs so much work.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Terms of uh.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Wordsmithing uiux design how do you write the 
  help page right how do you like you get these credentials in 
  front of students and in front of Administrators and there's just 
  worlds of how do we explain this stuff how you know how do we 
  handle errors how do we handle successes how do we show that the 
  verification succeeded.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  How do we show the various uh various ways in 
  which verification can fail and still uh sort of get across the 
  the risk factor to the user all all those all those topics very 
  interesting but back to uh the original question of so what what 
  else is on our road map uh so 1 1 exciting projects uh dcc's uh 
  doing right now is exploring further this notion of wallet 
  attached storage of okay we did some some early prototypes of 
  this is how you share a credential.
<ildiko_mazar> The portability of digital credentials is vital in 
  the context of lifelong learning where people get their 
  credentials from multiple sources and might store in multiple 
  places in parallel and over time. But it's also very important 
  that these DCs are comparable. Do you have a minimum 
  (recommended) data content for the credentials that are stored in 
  the ASU Pocket wallets?
Dmitri Zagidulin:  But then can we take it farther can we say 
  hey.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Since user since you already have a wallet 
  that manages cryptographic keys for you what does that mean for 
  storing things in a sharable way in the cloud.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Can we we.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Being able to share public only credential can 
  we add down the line Access Control to it.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Can we uh can we add sync between different 
  wallets or different devices right like it's it's a very rich and 
  interesting area to to explore.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   And and we look.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Forward to um coming back and and.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Explaining our approach uh sharing our 
  findings in it and so on so uh definitely um going to be more to 
  hear from us about what our Dutch storage I think I'll pause 
  there um back to you Gary.
Kerri Lemoie:  Oh no that's great thank you to me I'll actually 
  hand it back over to Mariana.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Okay yeah thank you um yeah lots of 
  these things are also on our minds um we do we are planning.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: A research Sprinter to in regards 
  to.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Selective disclosures and 1-to-1 
  sharings and uh uh all all sorts of things like that so I'm sure 
  we'll talk a lot with you guys about this um and I just yeah I uh 
  I love that we have an opportunity to kind of build step by step 
  build this um this future what this actually looks like of what 
  all these uncertainties look like and then um have immediate 
  almost instant validation.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Markets with real users when we make 
  these decisions.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: That's it Q&A.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah so let's uh let's get some questions from 
  uh from the audience I see 1 um uh 1 great question that I want 
  to make sure it doesn't uh get lost uh from from ildico in chat 
  though ildico if I don't know if you want to.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh hop on the Queue to uh to explain it more 
  but I think uh it'll go asking hey what.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Understand the question correctly.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  What's the data model here do we have a speck 
  of how.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  A credential needs to look in order to be 
  displayed on these wallets uh and the answer is it's obviously 
  evolving uh at the moment we started with open badges version 3.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We start with obvious credentials just because 
  it's uh.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Well known in our corner of the VC field 
  education field and so if it's a verifiable credential sorry if 
  it's a open badges version 3 it'll probably display in the wallet 
  uh of course we don't have support for all of the fields there 
  are many many many fields in.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Um open badges version 3.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Support uh for each 1 uh we will take some 
  time on the road map and and we are hoping that uh advances with 
  uh the render method will be able to take care some of.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Some of that heavy lifting.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So yeah so we're we're starting with uh really 
  basic credentials such as uh open badges.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Going from there but uh please feel free to 
  ask other questions.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah also to just quickly add to 
  that um so we did yeah we did launch uh pocket with 2 oh sorry um 
  I have a contributor here um to uh.
<ildiko_mazar> <3
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: 2 schemas so 1 is obviously uh for.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Of credentials and then the other 1 
  is the employment record to support uh you know to support that 
  so that is interesting Dmitri helped us create the initial schema 
  um and then we based on again real real life feedback and and 
  sort of uh fields and and data that was necessary um.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Will be iterating on it and and 
  figuring out how to make that look more aligned to.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Um just what the folks perceive to 
  be of value to share and what the the verifiers perceive to be of 
  value to know about the employment so that is evolving and it's 
  really fun.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Oh yeah that's that's a that's a good point I 
  completely forgot uh to mention that aspect that uh there there's 
  some really really exciting developments on in the resume and 
  employment and and HR uh filled in these wallets uh so.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  There's there's a support for the employment 
  credential that ASU uh has shipped uh there's a.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Couple of uh road map items that uh Phil Long 
  and the T3 Chamber of Commerce Foundation is working on.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And and it's relevant to us in the education 
  field because it's sort of the the complement the.
<ildiko_mazar> That would be very interesting to keep an eye on - 
  perceived value for the various stakeholders involved (educators, 
  employers)
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Functionality uh between education and and 
  employment and how how the 2 interactive.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah so really important uh illico please uh.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And you know you're spot on you you touch on 1 
  of the most important and 1 of the most um.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Often asked questions perceived value to 
  stakeholders.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  End of the day we've got we've got these.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Data models we've got these protocols we got 
  these apps user interface all this stuff.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  What's the perceived value to the stakeholders 
  what's like.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  What does this stuff actually do and.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh and that that's an ongoing challenge to us 
  a DCC okay we can talk about that and as well as um.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  You uh just want to highlight some of the some 
  of the work uh both Mariana and Brooke who's on the call.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   As well.
<ildiko_mazar> And how to foster the provision of those values in 
  future DCs to be issued by education providers
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Interfacing with various stakeholders on the 
  uh greater Network Greater Community side the the employers the 
  admission desks uh all of those yeah uh eternally interesting 
  topic.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Do you wanna.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah I would be more than happy to 
  talk to anyone about the findings that we had from our Ace 
  Hardware pilot there's actually um a few articles that were 
  published um based on that pilot that was very insightful um so 
  happy to talk more about this at some point.
<ildiko_mazar> Please share URLs, if you can
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: I can find the links yeah there are 
  1 of them is on my LinkedIn but I I'll grab it yeah.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Not to put you on the spot but do you want to 
  uh share a couple of findings that that that struck you that are 
  the top of your mind.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Let me just give me a minute I'll 
  I'll pull up the deck.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah of course of course yeah of course uh 
  meanwhile other questions uh the folks have.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And so on.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Well uh Mariana is is looking at the decks I 
  just want to comment real quick on 1 of the things that uh we 
  often get asked at DCC is this notion of whether to Rebrand re 
  label a wallet or use an existing.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  An existing app just unchanged like learning 
  credential wallet and.
<kerri_lemoie> Think we got cut off by jistsi
<kerri_lemoie> LCW at Open Wallet Foundation (still led by DCC): 
  https://github.com/openwallet-foundation-labs/learner-credential-wallet
<sharon_leu> I might have misheard during the presentation, did 
  you mention that you were doing obv3 bc it was familiar - does 
  that mean you are experimenting with other vcs that aren't obv3?
<kerri_lemoie> We encourage PRs! 
  https://github.com/openwallet-foundation-labs/learner-credential-wallet
<kerri_lemoie> (and issues)
<kerri_lemoie> Thank you!
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
<kristen_franklin> :+1:
<brooke_lipsitz_(asu)> :clap:
<beth_-_gobekli> Thank you!
<ildiko_mazar> Thank you, Marianna, Kerri, Abhishek and Dmitri

Received on Monday, 24 February 2025 17:13:33 UTC