[MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2024-11-18

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-11-18-vc-education/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-11-18-vc-education/audio.ogg

A video recording is also available at:

https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2024-11-18.mp4

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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2024-11-18

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2024Nov/0002.html
Organizer:
  Kerri Lemoie, Simone Ravaioli, Dmitri Zagidulin
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Dmitri Zagidulin, Andy Griebel, Ildiko Mazar, Mahesh Balan - 
  pocketcred.com, James Chartrand, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau 
  (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), David Ward, Sheela Kiiskila, Jim 
  Kelly, Nis Jespersen , Simone Ravaoli, Phil Barker, Federico 
  Giacanelli, Kerri Lemoie, Merul (AuvoDigital), Deb Everhart, Nate 
  Otto, TimG, Chandi, Jeff O - HumanOS, Kayode Ezike, Chandi 
  Cumaranatunge

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah there we go all right uh so these calls 
  are free and open to anyone you don't have to be a member of the 
  group uh to join the call however if you want to make any 
  substantive contribution to any of the specs this group works on 
  uh you must be a member of w3c and a member of the credentials 
  community group of which this is a task force so if you want to 
  make contributions and have them joined yet please reach out to 
  myself or to go or to Simone and uh we'll walk you through how to 
  join.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh let's see outbound under w3c and ccg code 
  of conduct uh we use jitsi chat to queue up for questions so uh 
  hit raise your hand and uh the bot will automatically add you to 
  the queue.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  You can go from there.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  First stop uh introductions and 
  reintroductions is anybody new to the call today or I haven't 
  introduced themselves in a while and wants to say hello to 
  everyone.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right um.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Next topic are there any Community 
  announcements.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right no announcements uh in that case let 
  us move on to our main topic today uh which is uh DCC team uh 
  James Chartrand.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Alex Agera myself mostly James are going to be 
  presenting on a couple of interrelated topics.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh specifically we want to talk about the 
  course of study extension to the open badges version 3.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh specification this is for diplomas right so 
  you have a major and you have a course of study how do we and I'm 
  currently there isn't um a flexible way to express that so how do 
  you how do you express it using open badges well it turns out 
  that open badges has an extension mechanism with that you can use 
  to add custom Fields like this uh fun fact krie lamoy was the 1 
  who originally uh created the extension mechanism for the 
  original open badge specification uh it's changed uh since then 
  but the idea is the same so we're going to talk about how the 
  extension mechanism Works in general and.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Although it's not exactly an extension but 
  it's a related topic we're going to talk a little bit about um.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Ation localization and specifically 
  multi-language fields in open badges.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right uh over to you uh before we get 
  started I see James is setting up James uh we can see your screen 
  nicely.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh does anybody have any questions before we 
  get started.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right over to you James.
James Chartrand:  Okay thanks Dmitri uh everyone can see my 
  screen share okay.
James Chartrand:  Great so as Demetri said this is all about um 
  extending obd3 to support degree May uh minors and Majors so to 
  be able to in an obd3 not just say that this obd3 is 4 degree but 
  to list the minors and Majors that go along with it um so today I 
  I'm going to be getting into the code a little bit so into the 
  weeds a little bit um and I'm assuming yep.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  1 Second James we we uh may have lost your 
  screen share I'm not sure if it's just me or if anybody else uh 
  has lost it as well.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   If you.
James Chartrand:  Can you see it is it back.
<simone_ravaioli> it is there for me
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah I can see the slides James.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Okay yep uh all right so if anybody else like 
  myself uh faces this uh just refresh and you should be able to.
<kerri_lemoie> Open Badges haven't been used for degrees in the 
  past (as far as we know) so we're encountering these challenges. 
  As another example, right before OBv3 was final, we recommended 
  adding "name" to the identity object because degrees usually 
  contain a person's name whereas open badges typically use email 
  addresses or other identifiers.
<ildiko_mazar> Why is the cardinality of fieldOfStudy [0..1]?
https://credreg.net/ctdl/terms/Degree#Degree
<phil_barker> Degree major in CTDL 
  https://credreg.net/ctdl/terms/degreeMajor
<xavi_aracil_(1edtech)> @Ildiko is [0..1]
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Ildiko I'm not sure why that cardinality was 
  chosen.
<simone_ravaioli> Bestr.it in Italy has been issuing OB for 
  University Degrees for a while, but not sure they have the 
  additional "minor" details as a requirement.
<nate_otto_(he/him)> @Ildiko The cardinality of fieldOfStudy is 
  [0..1] just for historical reasons, that's what it was drafted 
  as, and multiple-field-of-study use cases weren't considered 
  until after the spec was final. Multiple values will definitely 
  be considered for the next revision.
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Simone - oh, great to know!
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Nate - ah, makes sense, thanks.
https://credreg.net/ctdl/terms/
<federico_giacanelli> Hi Simone, Bestr.it is currently issuing 
  "minor" degree OBs but without any specific property. Just a 
  mention in the title
<ildiko_mazar> Thank you both @Xavi and @Nate. FYI (you probably 
  know already), in ELM it's card [0..*]
<nate_otto_(he/him)> Why is major just a string not a 
  multi-string value?
<nate_otto_(he/him)> I had two majors and two minors
Kerri Lemoie: :+1:
<phil_barker> @Nate Otto, in CTDL it would be multivalue with 
  Credential Alignment Objects as values.
<nate_otto_(he/him)> Right, Phil, my question is about the schema 
  on screen now, to represent double major
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Nate - I think this is a sample schema that 
  shows how to do either
<nate_otto_(he/him)> Sure, just do consider that use case before 
  you finalize v0.0.1, it's real!
<dmitri_zagidulin> totally agreed
<simone_ravaioli> here is a page of the University of Bergamo 
  with all the Badge classes for Diplomas 
  https://bestr.it/project/show/136
<federico_giacanelli> Here's a OB set from University of Venice 
  Ca' Foscari titled "Minor"
https://bestr.it/project/show/117?ln=en
<kerri_lemoie> Would concentrations be included in a similar way? 
  Part of the same extensions?
<simone_ravaioli> thank Fede, much better !
<federico_giacanelli> :+1: @simone
<kerri_lemoie> @federico, would minor be a separate badge from 
  the degree?
<federico_giacanelli> @kerri I'm not directly involved into it, 
  but AFAIK these are sort of mini-courses composed of a small 
  number of Degree exams: cfr https://bestr.it/badge/show/3618
<phil_barker> Yes! in CTDL it is an object!
<federico_giacanelli> @kerri so yes they are separates from the 
  degrees: https://bestr.it/project/show/148
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks @federico!
<kerri_lemoie> @philBarker - would you be able to show an 
  example?
<phil_barker> Not right now
<kerri_lemoie> :)
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> here are credentials in CTDL, 
  and you can filter to see specific types, e.g.  degrees 
  https://credentialfinder.org/search?searchType=credential
<phil_barker> @Kerri but the value for degreeMajor etc. is a 
  Credential Alignment Object which looks like the 
  https://credreg.net/ctdl/terms/CredentialAlignmentObject and 
  which include links to the definition used for "Biology" etc. as 
  a Degree Concentration
Kerri Lemoie: :+1:
<nate_otto_(he/him)> @Phil if you had your preference between two 
  options, what would it be? (1) not use the CTDL and use some 
  other IRI instead, or (2) use the CTDL while not obeying the 
  expectations of the CTDL for the value?
<phil_barker> @Nate, I don't see why use CTDL as expected isn't 
  an option!
<nate_otto_(he/him)> Some implementers may feel that something 
  like "major": [{"targetNodeName": "Biology"}] is overwrought
<phil_barker> It would add about 6 characters to the JSON
<phil_barker> (if you alias the targetNodfName)
<nate_otto_(he/him)> Credential Engine recommends adding an 
  "alignment" to a target URL on credentialfinder.org . In 
  addition, the "ctid" property could be added to the Achievement 
  if the CTDL IRI for that term appears in the extension context.
https://credentialengine.org/resources/how-to-align-digital-credentials-with-meaningful-ctdl-data/
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> here's the alignment guidance 
  for using a CTID for additional linked data within an OB3 
  https://www.imsglobal.org/spec/ob/v3p0/impl/#alignment-with-a-ceterms-credential-resource
Kerri Lemoie: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T-_-w5N2Ax5kl6x5-TgbSd-9PaPI3q4J2mnsFHgnBV0/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.hrcjoq4lis6w
<dmitri_zagidulin> example multi-language VC from the VC 2.0 
  spec: 
  https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model-2.0/#example-example-dual-language-credential
<ildiko_mazar> :-D
<ildiko_mazar> Yes, we can see
<ildiko_mazar> Would there be a semantic consideration to which 
  approach to apply? "related" feels not exactly the same as the 
  main achievement in a different language.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> CTDL uses inLanguage 
  https://credreg.net/ctdl/terms/#inLanguage
<phil_barker> @Deb CTDL uses inLanguage for the language of the 
  credential, but uses standard rdf langStrings for the metadata 
  just like VCs
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> :+1:
<ildiko_mazar> We feel that with European Digital Credentials - 
  our multilingual creds are massive json files
Kerri Lemoie: :Slightly_smiling_face:
<ildiko_mazar> We do the         "title" : {
<kayode_ezike> CLRv2
<ildiko_mazar> We have QR codes for all EDCs - independent from 
  their size (I don't know how they are generated though)
<kerri_lemoie> Interesting @Ildiko - can the values for each 
  language be an array?
<ildiko_mazar> Yes, @Kerri
Kerri Lemoie: :+1:
<kerri_lemoie> Thank you!!
<kerri_lemoie> I could start a thread on vc-edu mailing list 
  about this.
<federico_giacanelli> bestr.it already exports some OBs in EDC 
  format (thanks to @ildiko help)
<ildiko_mazar> And size-wise, a transcript of records with 10 
  subjects is 885KB
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Ildiko - yeah, and the QR code limit is ~4KB
<dmitri_zagidulin> so it's way over.
<ildiko_mazar> ...and that ToR is 8826 lines of code, by the way
<federico_giacanelli> :wave:

Received on Monday, 25 November 2024 09:48:47 UTC