- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 13:44:33 +0000
- To: public-credentials@w3.org
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week! The transcript for the call is now available here: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-06-18/ Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes. Audio of the meeting is available at the following location: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-06-18/audio.ogg A video recording is also available at: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2024-06-18.mp4 ---------------------------------------------------------------- W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2024-06-18 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Jun&period_year=2024&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date Organizer: Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang Scribe: Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords Present: Harrison Tang, Rashmi Siravara, Lucy Yang, Bob Wyman, Gregory Natran, Wes-Smith, stephan baur, Brandi Delancey, Jennie M, Sharon Leu, Will Abramson, Hiroyuki Sano, Japan, Tim Bloomfield, Dmitri Zagidulin, Leo, GregB, Jeff O / HumanOS, Manu Sporny, Wendy Seltzer, Nis Jespersen , pauld gs1, Alex H, Stephan Baur, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Gerald Glickman, Hiroyuki Sano, Juan Caballero, Jeff O - HumanOS, bengo, Gail Hodges Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Harrison_Tang: Welcome everyone uh to uh this week's w3c shiii meeting uh today we're very excited to have Lucy um to present on the California mdl mobile driver license community hackathons. Harrison_Tang: So before we get to those details uh I think Lucy Had prepared a presentation. Harrison_Tang: Just want to uh go through a couple uh administrative items so first of all I just want to make sure that uh we continue to hold respectful and constructive conversations uh and observe the code of ethics and professional conduct. Harrison_Tang: A quick uh note on intellectual property uh anyone can participate in these calls however all substantive contributions to any ccg work items must be the member of the ccg with 4 IP agreement side so if you have any questions in regard to getting uh w3c account or the community contributor license agreement uh please reach out to any of the cultures. Harrison_Tang: These calls are being automatically recorded and transcribed and we will uh publish the meeting minutes transcriptions audio and video recording uh in the next. Harrison_Tang: 12 to 24 hours. Harrison_Tang: Gigi chat uh to cue the speakers during the call. Harrison_Tang: You so you can type in Q Plus to add yourself to the queue or cue minus to remove and if you want to see who's in the queue just type in Q question mark. Harrison_Tang: All right I think it's time for the introductions and reintroductions so if you're new to the community or you haven't been active and want to reintroduce yourself uh feel free to just uh unmute. Harrison_Tang: I see mostly uh familiar faces so I'll move on to the next agenda item. Harrison_Tang: Uh announcement and reminders so any uh new announcements or reminders. Harrison_Tang: All right updates on the work items. Manu Sporny: Uh just a quick 1 um we were able to this is for render method uh so we've been uh a couple of us have been getting together working on render method um we're hoping to have some examples out on the VC playground in. Manu Sporny: Week or 2 um we also got uh government of Singapore's render method uh integrated into the spec um making good progress there. Harrison_Tang: Sounds good thank you. Harrison_Tang: I just saw your email in regards to the verify credentials barcode I think that's uh that will be adopted by the ccg since multiple companies and parties have supported it so I think we'll move on to the next stage. Manu Sporny: Okay we we have that right now Credence Credence ID has stepped forward to uh be a co-editor of it um and uh we've got multiple companies showing support on the issue tracker I don't know if you had seen that. Harrison_Tang: Uh I haven't uh I haven't actually been actively monitoring it so I I apologize I'll have to probably catch catch up I will have you uh have you actually been monitoring that threat. Harrison_Tang: Yeah I I I'm sorry I'm a little bit uh behind on this so well do you mind actually helping uh uh you know transition the Ripples and things like that yeah. Manu Sporny: I I can I can work with you to do that well I've done that before no problem. Manu Sporny: Okay thank you. Harrison_Tang: Cool well thank you thanks will thanks Manu I'll try to catch up on the threads uh uh later this weekend. Harrison_Tang: All right uh any other updates on the work items. Harrison_Tang: So last call for the introductions reintroductions announcements or work items. Harrison_Tang: All right so uh let's get to the main agenda so uh California DMV uh is hosting the mobile driver license Community hackathon uh in the next few months and uh so we're very glad to have Lucy and I think Gail might be hopping on later to actually uh talk about it a little bit more so Lucy uh the floor is yours. Lucy Yang: Thank you Harrison I know there's probably potentially resource issues so I just want to show my face so like in case we haven't met in person we're on previous calls so you can put a face to a to a voice um I'm I'm gonna I'll be off video just to you know take that with hi everyone Thanks for thanks um ccg you know Harrison for for having me to do this presentation today as Harrison mentioned like my my my partner on this project Gail hes who's also the the the executive director of open ID Foundation you know she works multiple hats but anyways like she will be hope and she has a conflict with hopefully she will be able to make it later on in the call and small scale and I we are an advisors and Consultants with the California DMV particularly and on the DVD technology side of things and so I am as many of you probably know my my my other hat and as um Kalia young like identity women's and business partner so this is also part of a can of Engagement uh for for our consulting firm so anyways I post um so we are. Lucy Yang: Speaking to you today just I'm really asked in a consultant who are leading the projects and on the DMV side for the hackathons so let me share my screen so I prepared some simple slides so you know it's easier. Lucy Yang: You to follow what is going on okay. Lucy Yang: Can everyone see my slides. Lucy Yang: Great so first I I just want to start with like what is oh. Manu Sporny: Oh wait a second it it went away when you went to full screen unfortunately I don't know what happened. Lucy Yang: Oh okay yeah it's it keeps happening uh it's probably not when. Lucy Yang: Is it has it come back. Lucy Yang: Cool so I I I won't go for screwing up hopefully everyone can see you know see the the the letters and stuff fine so yeah so so I I I'm gonna um provide kind of a high level overview of the um you know what is the objectives of the hackathon you know what are you know what we have already planned out and what kind of like um. Lucy Yang: Sources we're we're like you know we source as partners part participants we're looking for so I'm going to keep it relatively high level but and also we're going to have some time just to have an Q&A I know because. Lucy Yang: You you were thinking of yourself in a different could be it get involved in a different role so I'm not going to get into like too much details but I I want to kind of engage with you feel free to ask questions I can't see the chat but you know I feel free to interrupt me if I have any questions on a particular slide I'm happy to just be interactive um you know along the way where we can also save everything until the end of the presentation. Lucy Yang: The first I want to just um to share with you because the the overarching objective of the hackathons and so when I say hackathons we are um. Lucy Yang: It's more than just 1 event but the idea is just really for to further accelerate acceptance and usage of mobile driving lessons so that's in the California Department of a lot of vehicles so we are initiating so we're not just looking at you know a a c cadmv.com. Lucy Yang: Provide you some contacts why you know California DMV you know why me as a consultant me and Gail as consultant work we are um. Lucy Yang: Who are working. Lucy Yang: Project so back um you know you know back going backwards to 2021 the California legislature authorized the DMV and to conduct a pilot to evaluate the use and and mobile driver's license so as a result like if you're looking at in what we have achieved today is in the over 450,000 California residents are probably very close to a 5,000 uh 5,000 500,000 now are able to use their mdls to prove who they are to various public Insight services and applications without relying on a website where technology company to verify their identity and and to to deliver this pilot to DMV has sold the custom DMV on wallet and make. Lucy Yang: Them then the. Lucy Yang: Or agnostic particularly by agnostic we mean like we California DMV is doing due issuance and ISO in in both ISO mdl format as well as establish to see on BC format um. Lucy Yang: So this. Lucy Yang: Improves accessibility by affording California's additional choice in in what devices they use and what and where their store they store and manage their online identities so that's kind of the context and why California DNA is kind of initiating and but there's no like no intention of us being like at the center in the front the center of everything so we do want to have a community approach that's reason why like we where it's not like Cad and B Community hackathon is is a ncdmv hackathon is actually we want to make it uh mdl Community hackathon score we're in relying parties we're also like developers from relying party as well as government and civil society and groups um and particular and and and also digital identity Community as a whole and as I mentioned earlier like my my partner in this project Gail who is also like you know wearing her hat and an open ID and an executive director of open ID foundation so they have already committed support to the event and we're looking for more um Community groups and organizations who are um who are going to want to pitch in and support in different ways and and part. Lucy Yang: And then. Lucy Yang: We want to. Lucy Yang: Thank you w cccg for giving us this opportunity to get you know further involved with Community about this um about this this 2 events. Lucy Yang: So what kind of events we're talking about so there are 2 events um so when we call public events which you know open to anyone who want to apply um because we do have limited capacity that's reason why we you know we we we're open to everyone but we are going to have limited spots of 10 to 15 teams and for for the public event um and for the government event that's particularly targeting at government agencies who have a use case and who can come in with you know by themselves or who can come in with with our their existing Partners so that when we're looking a little little bit smaller scale like 7228 teams um to both given that you know like the events are targeting different audience or for the public event we're looking at and hosting it in Silicon Valley and currently we're looking at the the venue like a lot of your very familiar with the Computer History Museum haven't confirmed 100% yet but that's where kind of the the area we're looking at um the government in event which will be um hosting at in in Sacramento when when in 1 of the government um buildings So currently we're looking at the the California Department. Lucy Yang: Of Technology. Lucy Yang: Um and the tentative date we have here and we have got we have got some feedback regarding um the you know the conflict with some of the other events that going on in parallel so we are you know we have we are still kind of having discussions but definitely we're looking at October for for both events. Lucy Yang: Um so. Lucy Yang: Terms of use cases you know I've listed some examples and I believe many of you are also very familiar with you know the use cases for for mdl you know you can kyc identity proofing authentication is very kind of all these kind of very intuitive ones we a retail age verification the idea is really any um any kind of use case and that is within the scope like of so we are I'm going to talk about the toolings we're we're have we have and also um getting a little bit more details into what kind of what exactly the format we're issuing so it's really because we are issuing in certain formats that probably all is going to limit what kind of use cases we we can do for for this for this particular hackathon but I'm going to get into it in a little bit later um yeah kind of the we're also looking at for the government events we're looking at some of the um more kind of um like Unique Kind like K use cases in the government and scenario in the public sector scenario like you know the Disaster Assistance scenario like humans uh uh assistance scenario and vital record verification you know that's kind of just examples. Lucy Yang: And where any other. Lucy Yang: Other kind of use cases for postmark government agencies that are very relevant to to to their you know existing like processes and and and flows so the idea is really um to anyone with a for the public event anyone with a scalable digital identity line party like a use case um. Lucy Yang: Actually if you're already like leveraging underscore driver's license you're existing um business processes and seeing like the the digital version and like the mobile driver's license can help you um again especially in the near term um to to improve like efficiency you know reduce fraud or you know reduce costs and these are like all and you know kind of use cases we're looking at and of of course we also we always welcome Innovation that I haven't been you know in exist Like New in use cases that mobile drivers has kind of enable we also encourage teams with those kind of um with those innovative ideas to also kind of apply enjoy and the idea for for for the government event as I mentioned is like the we're we're only focused in targeting like government agencies it could be um it could be like a state California state agency where like local you know Municipal agency work could be in a federal and international government and so we are speaking to some International and also federal agencies who are interested in participating and you're probably going to ask whether we. Lucy Yang: Are going to do like. Lucy Yang: Um so I. Lucy Yang: Are focusing in person and participation but if and if needed we are we we have you know taken into consideration for you know venue and stuff like for those who may need to kind of dial in for for the day um but yes we are focusing on in person in person interaction for for both of the events. Lucy Yang: Just quickly just in case you know and like for for the teams we're looking at teams of 3 to 5 people and to be you know join in person on the day so that's um the kind of scale team we're looking at. Lucy Yang: So in terms of event agenda this is still kind of very kind of early on you know like tentative like event agenda we're looking at um so so we are. Lucy Yang: This is like we call it hackathon but for for the so we only have 1 day for the actual in person event we know that that 1 day is like very like the time is very limited so we do um expect participants to get started early on so we're looking at a month or a month of half of prep time and we will make the toolings and documentation anything you know like that will that can be like true that can be chosen and and you leveraged by relying Parties by participants all you know early uh 4 to 6 weeks and ahead and available so you can start already starting kind of like you know playing around with tooling and also we are we are going to provide life support mostly through our partners um our existing vendors and also our partners who are going to provide the tooling we also also be there to provide some kind of like technical support and the preparation phase like the 4 to 6 weeks and as well as in you know on event on the day um so this is something we're working on um on like with with some of our vendors and and partners. Lucy Yang: Are we will be. Lucy Yang: The event so you can you know like what you know what you exactly what you can expect on on the day um but the idea is really like we're we are like only expecting some kind of Final Touch to be done on the day and and the and the rest of time will be the really demonstrating it like your like your your use cases. Lucy Yang: On on the day. Lucy Yang: That's the case for for both events and we'll probably have some kind of adjustment um to like the the um the lines of the event but you know what you're looking at now is what we you know what we have in mind so far. Lucy Yang: So in terms of tooling and support available um so we are so at this point we're we're looking at 5 tracks of um of tooling or support we're 5 tracks of like kind of potential use cases where potential tooling that you can leverage as a participant you can leverage for for tooling and the track 1 and track 2 that's are what and are the track we we know like at California DMV we already have tooling available that can we can provide to potential participants or also like having their promise conversations with some potential Partners who can provide tooling and on those 2 tracks as well as well as the the the the rest of the switch tracks but at least what we can confirm as a track 1 and track 2 so if you have use cases that you can leverage like in person presentation of I'm ISO mdl like -5 format so that's something like the tool and we're going to have um for you to leverage and and and us as well as the track too that's the online presentation so so that's when like the verifiable um. Lucy Yang: Because California. Lucy Yang: Like in both like um both formats so like the the WCC format is the version 1.1 jot format so we will have tooling available for relying parties to also like verifying to to consume um that version and and have that tooling to build into your own own flows and your own products so these 2 tracks we we have confirmed and depending and because we are looking at a wide range of um potential participants some are more kind of experienced and with you know with the with the standards and with the technology some of the less so so depending on the participant we're having we're going to provide some guidance to to participate in you know developers and and also their teams to to kind of get more context about the the maturity level and of different standards and profiles um so we're we're looking you know if if you you know we're welcome feedback you know if you could you know you have any ideas like any other tracks you know you'll be interested or any if you're will you know interested in providing support we're tooling for any of the tracks you know please feel free to kind of. Lucy Yang: You know. Lucy Yang: We're we're open to an ideas and obvious world and to to more support to the to the event. Lucy Yang: And very briefly to become a partner so I've mentioned like California DM me we are like initiating we're only going to be a co-organizer and at this point like open ID Foundation has confirmed to kind of. Lucy Yang: We're also speaking to a wide range of coordinators who are also interested in support as well but in terms of like how what what kind of support we're looking for from a Partners um so California DMV like we're putting it into resources like for me and Gail to help with the program management and coordination and also we have some more vendors and partners who are going to be um kind of providing the access you know becoming expert advisors and providing some toolings available um for the next for the first 2 tracks but but in general we're looking kind of like different types of support in terms of Financial and any kind of support to cover like the direct cost like a venue and 2 drinks and snacks and we are looking at providing a worth and and as well um and and also potentially other set of costs that that all kind of a direct cost there are also some kind of other types of support like in terms of technical support So if you know your company or like you know it's aligned with you know have tooling that are aligned with a a hackathon objective and scope um so we're all always welcome like support in terms of like providing tooling documentation as well as like the. Lucy Yang: The the actual. Lucy Yang: Sort of for the participant and the guidance for them prior to the event and during the events um and expertise support we'll be looking for like you know coaches and judges like on the days you know on the day as well um and you know coaches in terms of like for some of the comp relying parties probably new to the standards where you know they're interested in learning more about you know where like the standards are and you're that kind of like expert coaches we're we're definitely looking and you know interested in having some um to support the participants um and then any working Nations like can help with Outreach support we have reached out to kind of some of you who are you know Community work Nation who can actually have um the the the relying party um participant that we you know they can help with Outreach and and the kind of the least kind of a way of um amount of support that we will we would also encourage if you're organization are kind of find this effort very aligned to your strategy you know to your strategic initiatives welcome you to send a staff to come as a as observers you know observing on. Lucy Yang: There and also providing. Lucy Yang: Okay back afterwards. Lucy Yang: So we do have limited spots for observers and but if you're interested if you find this aligned with your with your objective please feel free to reach out um. Lucy Yang: In terms of participants um so like participation in the hackathons are you know will be free I mean we are expecting you know. Lucy Yang: Participants to kind of cover their own costs to travel to the venue and to. Lucy Yang: 2 To participate but you know there's no fees you have to pay in order to participate but we as mentioned we do have limited capacity um. Lucy Yang: Already interested like we feel free to reach out um and but we will make an official application available um online so anyone can apply for for the public events soon and the teams and it's mentioned earlier like the teams will receive the tooling and relevant documentation at least like 4 to 6 weeks before the event so you can start your use case development and we will have like um technical support and you know before and during the event. Lucy Yang: 1 Thing I wanted to highlight that because this event is going to be public so anything you don't want to share with the public we encourage you not to share such information you know and you know in our forum. Lucy Yang: Okay so I I think that's that's pretty much um kind of like 1 and all like the high level so if any just want to see if any kind of feedback questions. Manu Sporny: Sure I I think 1 Thing Lucy that um I can offer is uh you know we will be meeting digital Bazaar uh will be providing uh support through the open Credit platform that um we had announced a couple of weeks ago um on the on the mailing list that uh provides the mechanism that uh would allow your organization to fairly easily accept um the verifiable credential version um of the California driver's license um so if you think that you know there's not a huge amount it's not a huge technological engineering lift uh to accept the mdl and or the verifiable credential version of the mdl and then do all the processing you would need on it to make sure it's valid that's pretty much there as kind of like an open source tool um Lucy correct me if I'm wrong here I think the expectation was more around like business use cases. Manu Sporny: Ations of like. Manu Sporny: Okay now that you can consume this you know driver's license this digital driver's license um how are you going to use that to improve you know your operations and your use case. Manu Sporny: Is that fair to say Lucy. Lucy Yang: Yes thank you for I mean you just provided their exam a very good example of what what kind of tooling and how how we're hoping the participants to leverage tooling and just to um also thank you like manual like digital bizarre and also like Spruce ID who have you know vendors as the California VMV have been very and very helpful in terms of helping us put together the scope and for for the hackathon and like Manu mentioned like the um um like the bizarre has make make the um open crowd platform open source we have 1 DMV so that tooling is already um available out there and and we're like in all the screws team is also working on something for the first track and to um. Lucy Yang: And for the. Lucy Yang: For the import. Lucy Yang: Of the um of iso mdl dat format um yes the idea is really we want to make um the the actually the engineering part as simple as possible so that the buying part because we are targeting and relying parties who already have business use cases. Lucy Yang: To really want them to focus on how. Lucy Yang: The MD. Lucy Yang: Y'all could be could be you know useful you know could be useful to improve their existing processes right whether it's like improving improving efficiency you know reduce fraud or you know like reduce costs and that we want the team to focus on that um but obviously there are you know toolings that you know they're still have to kind of play around with and understand how to use it that's why we're we're also we're looking at a wide range of tooling right and gladly we already have some of the tooling for track 1 and track 2 and then and and whoever you know hand build on the existing tooling provide you know other tooling for for the 2 tracks or other other switch tracks we're all like welcome but the idea is really building on the you the business use cases are like the the focus of of the hackathon so thank you man for for really highlighting the the objective. Stephan_Baur: Yeah Lucy maybe uh 2 questions the first is if is there some sort of an registration selection process like if you have say 20 PE 20 teams applying for this where you kind of Select them down so to fit the venue. Lucy Yang: Uh yes so um mention we are so we're still in the process of really kind of putting together the partners and making sure we have resources and confirm like the days and and and venues and we're almost there and so that's why we haven't put out like official application for participants but we will have have that official like application process which will have like an application form and you have to fill out your use case and we will have to review and evaluate because we do have limited spots but if but if you already have like an idea and feel free to reach out we're already kind of speaking to um potential participants who have like an ideas and interesting use cases so we you know hope this this phase like this kind of a pre official application stage shouldn't be you know shouldn't prevent you from reaching out to us and have a conversation we're happy to provide feedback and. Stephan_Baur: Yeah yeah great great and then the next question is uh is it like I'm more interested in the mdl as a wallet rather than the mdl as a verifiable credential. Stephan_Baur: Not to say that that is not of use of course right um so so the question is um you know is it would you consider you know use case ideas that would introduce new verifiable credentials to be issued to the wallet and then obviously presented back to an relying party. Lucy Yang: Um so I so let me just make sure I understand you because are you are who you're who you're talking about issuing the additional credentials other than the mdl. Stephan_Baur: Well so so the the idea we're bringing forward is to do a um health insurance card. Stephan_Baur: Form of a verifiable credential and have for example medical issue that to the California that I have a license and we on the health plan side would then of course have plenty of use cases to verify it. Lucy Yang: I see so I let me let me let me put it this way what what is within scope so what we're like for this particular hackathon so we're looking we're only looking at. Lucy Yang: California DMV issuing the current the 2 indeed ISO format and uh um verify 1.1 format into an existing cadm wallet and we're looking at relying parties who can consume other formats of credential in the way that you know like you know whether through online presentation in person presentation that so the relying party are kind of confined in a way that you want you know you won't be able to kind of issue your own thing and but but you can Leverage. Lucy Yang: Issue into a user a clap when a resident's wallet in whatever way you. Lucy Yang: You can't for example yeah you're talking about the health insurance case you could definitely leverage credentials right and um and you know California residents wallet to prove their you know whatever their their age where their you know their date of birth where their their address and and to incorporate that part of like issuing your house insurance card or something like that. Lucy Yang: So that's. Lucy Yang: Um but but I don't know like what you're thinking about in terms of like you know issuing more credentials into like um into the DMV wallet that's I'm I'm not sure I don't think that's part of the scope yet. Stephan_Baur: Yeah that's that's yeah that's the answer is no yeah and then. Stephan_Baur: and then you. Stephan_Baur: You mentioned something there on the day itself around an interoperability sort of discussion and I just wondered um we don't see interoperability to include. Stephan_Baur: sort of. Stephan_Baur: Other organization side works like it's only open Credit it's not for example. Stephan_Baur: Of the entra verified ID for example where the mdl would interact with that or is it. Lucy Yang: Uh I I let me call so we're we are so we are making toolings whatever tooling we have available so like to to the community right we are encouraging and for example if Microsoft like okay they want to make their Android related tooling available to you know to you know to the participants we we most welcome that so at this point I don't I don't know how how much tooling we can make available but we are taking the chocolate box approach so if you have tooling we you know you can make you know some of the SDK or some stuff available to us to to participants great but I I do I don't have like you know like I can't give you like enough certainty how how how what we will have but what we can't what we I'm sharing today is what we already have right what we can potentially have like you know before before the hackathon there's still a lot of you know potential because we we've been speaking to a lot of the other you know um potential Partners who are willing to provide tooling and and for the interrupt. Lucy Yang: Part is. Lucy Yang: So so there. Lucy Yang: So we have our planning kind of in small kind of interop portion of the event so this is what we haven't fleshed out exactly yet that's also part of the 1 of having this conversation was like different communities so is the event itself is less so about like you know interrupt it's really can kind of demonstrate like the usage and can the value of the existing kind of like mdls you know California DMV is issuing to like California residents and businesses but we also know like as you mentioned there are different parties of providing very useful tooling right to business if there are any kind of like interrupt value to them demonstrate to show on the event that's like kind of what we are planning to do for like some amount of time what what we what we call interrupt party so that's yeah is it to be department but we do know that there are probably some interrupt value that we can do for for the event hope that makes sense. Stephan_Baur: Yeah great thank you. Dmitri Zagidulin: Thanks Lucy uh this looks exciting my main question is I if you're interested in this uh where uh where do we follow for updates uh for details will you send out an email to the ccg list when the time comes. Lucy Yang: Uh so uh you know there's I have like we have an email like that you can reach me and Gail and then we're pretty responsive to any questions feel free to reach out through this email and we I've shared with uh I think Harrison like a brief um but um I'm I'm we're yeah yes but that's something like we can I'm happy to share again through through the list um and so we like the current brief is focusing on like potential Partners but we also have like 1 targeting and potential participants like on on the way you have a student but yes I'm I'm definitely happy to kind of like you know keep showing up on on on the on on the calls and just you know to provide update and also share an upcoming like materials through through the mailing list. Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah it's I guess my question is something as simple as right now the data is tentative it would be great to know when the data is final for that we can. Lucy Yang: Oh yeah that that that will definitely will definitely going to have like in a big shout out to to all the communities we've been touched to what once the data is confirmed yeah it's just really really tricky you know that the timing you know with you know that there's other kind of like mdl events going on and also with you know yes and yet but yeah I definitely will will come back with a once we have a confirmed date. Harrison_Tang: Hey Lucy do you mind sharing this back to the mailing list like to the email thread I send out along with the agenda or you you. Lucy Yang: I I yeah I I think it's very um I let me let me check because we have the the brief um which is pretty much the same information I'm pretty much like you know remember I share you with a brief that's pretty much the same so I I have an updated version so let me come back to you I'll definitely share something with the group um within the week. Lucy Yang: Okay okay great. Harrison_Tang: Yes feel free to just uh share directly on the on the list or share with me and I can send it on the list either way is fine. Lucy Yang: Okay okay great I'll I'll do that once I you know and which which 1 is the best to share but I will thank you. Harrison_Tang: By the way a clarification question so uh in regards to the scope of this hackathon so this hackathon is targeting uh. <gail_hodges> HI, just joined Harrison_Tang: Parties to use the California uh wallet uh that holds the mobile driver license uh and then targeting basically relying parties to demonstrate uh different business use cases that leverages the. Harrison_Tang: the mobile. Harrison_Tang: Driver license held in California wallet is that correct. Lucy Yang: Yes yes so we're yeah we're it's focusing on the really the consuming to verifying side of. Lucy Yang: Of the yes relying parties so I I noted that Gail Gail is here Gail you heard what Harrison said and you know it felt like you know what we're I'm communicating the the Mets objectives of the uh of the event is is on relying parties. Harrison_Tang: Cool and then another clarification questions uh I know in hackathons a lot of times there will be ideas that uh that that we haven't anticipated but what are the use cases and ideas that uh that you guys anticipate this hackathon will bring bring forth like I heard about kyc know your customer compliance anti-fraud like I'm just curious like what are the different kind of use cases that you guys are anticipating. Gail_Hodges: I mean it's it's a it's a little bit hard to to tell who will ultimately commit um we've had you know feedback from Banks yes they're interested in kyc we've had feedback from you know major um video meeting platform providers that they're interested in participating uh we've had feedback from major entertainment providers that they'd like to um participate especially for to help them think about how to serve um the connection between parents and children or temporary custodian of other people's children um and uh and the list the list goes on we definitely have lots of um stakeholders amongst the the different departments in California that are interested as well as the DHS uh which is interested in participating from a FEMA use case like you have a fire how do you have a credential issue to the user how do you take them through the the FEMA um offering of services to people um or the using of digital identity credentials. Gail_Hodges: to better. Gail_Hodges: Emergency relief staff um so only legitimate staff can get into restricted areas there's been you know quite a lot of different kinds of use cases and of course we don't really know what will come up right from folks who will choose to submit the 1 of the key uh limitations though not only are we focusing on relying party use cases we're also um focusing on end relying parties so the entity that ultimately controls the delivery of that experience to the end user so any um enabling vendors or Partners need to kind of like beyo relying party right so there can be a vendor that there needs to be also then your trusted Bank partner you know vendor plus bank or um you know restaurant chain plus rely plus vendor uh for for that to comprise the the 3 to 5 person team that comes um to bring that use case to life so we want to make sure it's not just theoretical use cases it's truly use cases that could get lit up and turn. Gail_Hodges: turned on and moving. Gail_Hodges: Into production if. Gail_Hodges: That organization decided to do so so by participating in this process and having the support for the 6 Plus weeks leading up to the the the the the event itself um it's going to allow these these relying parties to create use cases to be supported in that Journey um and then to have something they can demonstrate internally that can be reviewed by their legal and their compliance stakeholders and it can really bring it to life particularly for executives who don't understand what digital identity really means and why it would be of benefit to them so it's like a focusing Point um to really bring uh bring everyone's attention to bear. Lucy Yang: And just to add a little bit to what Gail says what we know that um there are use cases where like mobile driving lessons is only a part of it you'll probably have a more complex use case that you know the the data or mobile driver's license can provide is only a part of the solution and we're also welcome that kind of use case um to kind of participate but. Lucy Yang: You know we. Lucy Yang: Be able to. Lucy Yang: Kind of like let you do a kind of a full end to end demonstration of like oh you know of the entire use case but just focusing on how mdl can add value to what kind of more complex use cases is also something like we you know we we we were interested in as well. Harrison_Tang: Cool thank you. Harrison_Tang: Any other questions. Harrison_Tang: By the way this is uh uh. Harrison_Tang: Question uh kind of personal question but uh uh I'm wondering about the user experience of of uh General user experience uh. Harrison_Tang: Of this kind of uh hackathon because like I always give an example a lot of websites they use uh. Harrison_Tang: Basically social login right so they they do social login or oidc and then the. Harrison_Tang: and then. Harrison_Tang: They the the user the end user basically have the account and then now they want to use a uh this California driver license leverage this uh uh California wallet and mobile driver license uh they have to basically do another like uh uh in some ways oid uh for VPS that kind of uh uh experience again right to to basically do the verification so essentially they have to do it twice is is that is that a correct characterization or what's the general kind of a user experience that uh. Harrison_Tang: Leveraging this technology can look like. Gail_Hodges: So if you're talking specifically about login um this is making me think of uh the use case the DMV is lit up for you know a kind of single sign on if you will where you can use your Mobile driving license or your MDOC um sorry I think it's the the VC 1.1 version isn't it um manual keep me honest uh that the um. Gail_Hodges: You can log into the website but you'd have to kind of present it again to log into the website the next time alright so each time you're logging in um using that credential is that the kind of question you're asking. Harrison_Tang: Uh like for example the bank use case the when they want to do the ID verifications and uh kind of um no fraud mitigations like Banks like they have their own login systems right and then the or a lot of uh uh Services they they use social login such as Google login and uh so they have to do that once and then if they want to add on to the mobile do the ID verification Via Mobile driver license they have to do it again right it they basically have to do the oidc again is that is that correct or there's other easier more seamless experience. Gail_Hodges: Many are jumping. Manu Sporny: Sure thing yeah I want to underscore what Gail said yeah yes um you know they're they're using the verifiable credential version of the the digital driver's license to do the login Harrison um there is a they're kind of 2 banking use cases at least 2 banking use cases um 1 of them is using the California driver's license uh to do kyc like ekyc so you get a stronger signals about an identity document associated with someone um and then once that's done at the bank uh the bank could have an option of just using the mdl uh to do uh log in so you get that like really strong ekyc every time the customer shows up to log into their banking account um so those are both options um and of course these are early days and we're trying to make sure that um uh we focus on the user experience and make it as seamless as possible and really pay attention to privacy and make sure we're doing. Manu Sporny: That correct. Manu Sporny: So I I would expect that we're going to we're going to see some things you know during this hackathon that are going to um influence improvements um in the way uh California's uh running this program. Stephan_Baur: Yeah maybe Harrison just want to add there I think it's also easily possible to match and that you know once these identity steps have been verified through the exchanges to the wallet that you then just punt over to the normal account creation page right. Stephan_Baur: And of course we. Stephan_Baur: We're thinking it would be a good you know opportunity to then bring users to actually pass keys right so I think I think that's where where we see a big value on this and maybe Gail you came on perhaps later and I asked the question but I the use case we're thinking is we would actually like the presentation do I have a bundle of 2 VCS 1 being the 1 for identity the other 1 being for health coverage right and the Beautiful sort of use case on that is or user experience and that is if you just do you know an online you know appointment and you have to share your you know insurance card anyway right you do this digitally you have an immediate concreation with the provider like with the doctor's office or in a later can come back and pull your data from. Stephan_Baur: But anyway for that for that we need to to be open to indeed um additional sort of verify potential to and that doesn't seem to be in scope for now so we'll do this later. Lucy Yang: I think Stefan if you have a existing wallet um that can hold the house credential you can actually you can build a business flow that consume 2 creds just from different wallets and I know it's not ideal I'm just you know pointing out is still possible as I mentioned like we are taking into consideration the use cases where mdl is only part of the. Lucy Yang: You know. Lucy Yang: 1 Of the credentials that um a user would need and to get verified by relying party. Stephan_Baur: Hey no worries I'll I'll Lucy and Gail I'll reach out to you guys and you know we have the conversation with the DMV team as well and you know maybe there's just a bit of different misalignment issues there so we'll clarify thank you. Gail_Hodges: I I think that's fine I mean we're we we welcome those kind of questions to test the boundaries right like the the entertainment provider I was describing there there isn't yet a standardized way of how 1 think about um linking a parent to a child or a parent to a uh the temporary custodial of someone else's child like your niece or nephew or a neighbor's child right there's not really a standardized way to approach that yet but it's a really interesting use case and it might be possible to call the club together some standards and and try and answer it so there might be something similar when it comes to linking identity and health coverage so we don't want to try and uh Chuck anything out the window at the same time our bias is towards um use cases that could be lit up and could be brought into the real world you know in a frame in a time frame of before the end of the year right so um but we we we welcome those conversations. Lucy Yang: Harrison I just want to quickly go back to to your earlier question a little bit because M man you mentioned the the 2 kind of use cases for for banking snail once it's just getting um when you're getting on boarded to become a client doing an identity proofing right the what what the current practice and a lot of banks were even just like web services are using an existing idb provider which they have to pay per transaction and the value here I can see mdl can do is really provide you another option that you know it's it's already it's government issued digital ID you can use without actually that additional cost so that's 1 1 thing I want to add another thing is that the Second Use case where like you're using for login so what we're really trying to do is making the tooling available so you don't have like the the relying party doesn't have to build everything from from scratch it's like you have like the sdks available where like some even some things even probably simpler that you can leverage kind of a button you click and then get. Lucy Yang: You know. Lucy Yang: Get get thing you know. Lucy Yang: Exiting mdl verify from your wallet right that's kind of like the um what like the tooling we're hoping to put out there are some of the relying parties doesn't have to you know all all doing all the heavy lifting and that's that's also part of reason my man team has made the the open grass um platform available in open source. Harrison_Tang: Yeah the reason why I asked that question is because uh. <gail_hodges> Our asks of W3C CCG and the FedID WG/ WiCG: 1) Partnership with the community/ CA effort itself, e.g. funding support, volunteer resource support, observer opportunity 2) Early notice to consider participating and bringing RP use cases. Harrison_Tang: Well during the onboarding process not not the recurring login uh but during the onboarding uh first time user experience process like uh at this moment most of the idv I did identity verification is done uh automatically right uh actually the user is probably don't even know that it's happening uh so while this uh um you know basically verify through the wallet uh idea is more uh more transparency with user consent so on so on so on it does add additional frictions uh so I I I just been wondering if there's a this is outside scope of this particular uh hackathon topic but I I have always been wondering about whether we could achieve uh both objectives right in other words uh more um transparency but at the same time like uh the seamless uh experience like you know so that's why I was asking about the user experience. Lucy Yang: I understood thank you for the question but at least I think you're right in terms of the you know the user will have different options they have to choose it's like when I mean at least you know in Canada when you know some of the government website they're like multiple options I have to evaluate which 1 works best for me I would imagine probably similar scenario um for for you know for the onboarding process it's definitely not the most like user user friendly but uh but yeah that's that's what what we're starting right now. Harrison_Tang: Yeah yeah yeah definitely I I mean in. Harrison_Tang: Businesses uh they. Harrison_Tang: Only look at. Harrison_Tang: That uh CPA is cost per acquisition uh for the first time user experience uh and that that's actually really really important because uh if your cost per acquisition is high in fact if it's higher than your lifetime value uh the business model doesn't work right so so when 1 of the ways to reduce CPAs is to make sure the onboarding experience is a frictionless as possible so it's not just um. Harrison_Tang: Nice user experience benefit but it's actually business critical to have a very seamless frictionless onboarding experience and and generally speaking not always but generally speaking the more steps you add right it increases your friction and uh your CPA so. Harrison_Tang: Anyway so again this is outside the topic of today's session but uh I have always been wondering about different kind of user experiences that balance uh and actually uh achieve uh multiple goals and uh you know just curious if other people have other ideas that's all. Gail_Hodges: So apologies that I couldn't join until halfway through today's call um but I guess maybe you can catch me up on the temperature of this group's conversation so the ask of of California to the w3c and that's both to this group The ccg and more widely the FED ID um working group uh and the ycg working group is you know whether the w3c community would like to partner in this community effort you know together with California and other players that will come to Bear uh the open ID Foundation my other hat certainly plans to support the work um but many digital platforms and other nonprofit bodies we expect will also choose to partner so that's the first question of the w3c and then the second question you know second point where I think we spent most of the time since I joined is is really this early notice to you all of um the the sub of the of the announcement will make uh for for relying parties to consider participating so consider this in. Gail_Hodges: early heads up. Gail_Hodges: If you're already thinking. Gail_Hodges: Being such a relying party um but on that first point of of w3c partnership um is that something Harrison uh yourself and and and other leaders of the ccg can kind of take away and come back to us and and um share a whether you'd like to be observers be whether you might have funding to support us see whether you might have people resources um and that could help us the those are the kinds of things we're particularly looking for from Partners um and of course there is branding and promotion and I think the really good Optics of of working as a wider Community to to bring digital identity to life. Harrison_Tang: Yeah uh definitely uh we can kind of take it offline but in regards to kind of uh. Harrison_Tang: Branding support uh I mean financially w3c ccg doesn't uh have have a funding uh but that said you know uh branding wise and uh you know uh in terms of participations I think will definitely willing to help because this definitely furthers uh you know our community as a whole but we can take it offline and then the uh also um my side right uh in regards to Spokeo and things like that to to the to the extent where we can help like we're definitely willing to help. Gail_Hodges: Great thank you. Gail_Hodges: Appreciate that feedback and of course happy to take it offline and let you all discuss a bunch of yourselves as well. Harrison_Tang: Uh any other questions last questions. Our Robot Overlords are scribing. Harrison_Tang: Sometimes when the 2 main cameras is actually uh the GT has 10 Coe issues but anyway uh I think this concludes a a today's meeting anyway but thanks a lot Lucy thanks Gail for jumping on. Gail_Hodges: Oh thank you for having us. Lucy Yang: Thank you have a good 1 everyone. Harrison_Tang: All right have a good 1.
Received on Wednesday, 19 June 2024 13:44:41 UTC