[MINUTES] W3C CCG Credentials CG Call - 2024-06-11

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-06-11/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-06-11/audio.ogg

A video recording is also available at:

https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2024-06-11.mp4

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W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2024-06-11

Agenda:
  https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Jun&period_year=2024&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Topics:
  1. Work Items
  2. #WhyID Digital Identity Toolkit
Organizer:
  Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Harrison Tang, Simone Ravaoli, Kimberly Linson, Rashmi Siravara, 
  Hiroyuki Sano, Japan, Marianne Díaz Hernández, Joe Andrieu, 
  TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Wes-Smith, 
  Jeff O / HumanOS, Geun-Hyung, Manu Sporny, Sharon Leu, Erica 
  Connell, Will Abramson, Nick Doty, Joey STANFORD, Kerri Lemoie, 
  Alex H, PL/T3, Dmitri Zagidulin, Przemek Praszczalek

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: We're good to go.
Kimberly Linson:  All right thank you welcome everybody um I'm 
  really excited to have Marianne Diaz Hernandez here today uh she 
  has been um.
Kimberly Linson:  I I'm gonna I'm gonna.
Kimberly Linson:  A human rights and Technology researcher uh 
  which I just I loved that idea of um really taking all the 
  technology and the things we talk about in these meetings so 
  often and really turning it into um practical things that are are 
  helping people on the front lines in many different ways um and 
  I'm really excited for her to share her digital identity toolkit 
  with us in just a few minutes.
Kimberly Linson:  Um but let me first kind of run through our 
  housekeeping uh notes and then we'll get started.
Kimberly Linson:  Uh 1 is um I'm so happy to be a part of this 
  community that is so inclusive and respectful of other people's 
  ideas and uh think thinking and comments um and so we just want 
  to make sure that we bring that to the 4 4 front of every single 
  1 of our meetings um if you want to learn more about um the w3c 
  and how they view uh the the code of ethics and professional 
  conduct um it is in our agenda the link to it is in the agenda 
  and invite you to check it out.
Kimberly Linson:  Uh we invite everyone to participate that's 
  another reason I love this community is that it is so welcoming 
  we are over 550 people uh who are members of this community and 
  we welcome them all and anyone can participate in these Community 
  calls however anyone who wants to um provide substantive 
  contributions should be a member of the ccg and you can do that 
  very easily by going to W3 uh.org and uh and joining it is free 
  to join and then um completing that contributor license and the 
  links to that is also in in our agenda.
Kimberly Linson:  A record of these calls through minutes and 
  recording uh of a transcript to make sure that we uh hold on to 
  this information uh going forward so that uh we can go back and 
  and look at that archive and also to really make sure that 
  everyone has access to the wonderful things that we are 
  discussing.
Kimberly Linson:  Invite you to participate um by using uh Q Plus 
  in the chat um I will take the role of moderator and facilitator 
  today and kind of make sure that our Q is uh is running smoothly 
  and that everyone gets a chance to contribute and and talk as 
  we're as we responding to the information that Marianne provides 
  in just a little bit.
Kimberly Linson:  Uh okay so um now I am to the part of today 
  where I invite folks who are.
Kimberly Linson:  To the community or are uh returning after 
  being away for a bit or just want to um say hi to uh put 
  themselves on the Queue and introduce themselves or reintroduce 
  themselves.
Kimberly Linson:  Glad to have you.
Wes-Smith: Hi everyone my name is Wes I'm a software engineer at 
  digital Bazaar and I'm looking forward to working with you all.
Kimberly Linson:  Anyone else like to introduce themselves.
Kimberly Linson:  All right how about announcements and reminders 
  does anyone have any information they want to share with the.
Manu Sporny:  Hey Kimberly um.
Manu Sporny:  1 Announcement uh I think we announced the 
  verifiable barcodes uh specification that we've been incubating 
  sorry that we've just been working on um uh for a while.
Manu Sporny: https://digitalbazaar.github.io/vc-barcodes/
Manu Sporny: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/248
Manu Sporny:  Last week I'll put a link into uh that 
  specification here um this is work that uh is being deployed uh 
  for the State of California uh and uh is expected to be deployed 
  for uh the US citizenship and Immigration Services permanent 
  resident card employment authorization document stuff like that 
  um we have uh proposed it as a work item uh for the credentials 
  community group I'll put in a link to that here uh there's been 
  some discussion uh on the mailing list um and then on top of that 
  uh we've got another.
Manu Sporny:  Uh organization that would like to support uh from 
  an editorial uh role uh they're not organization's name is 
  Credence ID um uh in uh they I think they've already joined or 
  will be joining the the credentials community group soon they're 
  also 1 of the um uh performers that have gotten a um a DHS 
  contract to work on verifiable credential technology uh in in 
  digital wallets and verifiers and stuff like that um so I uh 
  asked that uh some of you look at the work if you're interested 
  in it uh happy to answer any questions on the mailing list um and 
  that's that thanks.
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you.
Kimberly Linson:  Anyone else with an announcement reminder.
Harrison_Tang: Yeah I just want to add that uh we uh invited West 
  to talk about verifiable credentials barcode on August 6th and 
  then the quick preview of what's coming so next week uh we got 
  Lucy and gal to talk about the California DMV MPL hackathon so.
Harrison_Tang: I think they're going to hold it in the.
Harrison_Tang: September or October uh this year obviously so 
  they're going to talk about that.
Harrison_Tang:  and then.
Harrison_Tang: Week after we're going to have Greg coming back 
  again to talk about Anonymous holder binding and pseudonym.
Harrison_Tang: The week after we're going to have the author of 
  The Mit mro nity paper uh neuron to talk about her work there so 
  that's uh upcoming uh agenda uh pretty excited about actually all 
  these topics so thanks.
Kimberly Linson:  Sounds great thanks Harrison.
Kimberly Linson:  All right uh will would you like to talk about 
  work items.

Topic: Work Items

Kimberly Linson:  Thanks will Manu you had a comment.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah just on the confidence method um there there 
  are a number of us that want to see that move forward uh and 
  haven't been doing that because our whole Focus right now or a 
  lot of our Focus right now is in getting the verifiable 
  credentials 20.
Manu Sporny:  Ification done um and so I think the plan there is 
  the verifiable credentials working group is going to reserve the 
  confidence method extension point and they're going to expect 
  once they finish their work for some of those extensions specs 
  that were reserved to then be taken up so those include like 
  confidence method um and render method at a at a minimum so I 
  just want to Signal like we are very interested in getting 
  confidence method done and and we just haven't been able to 
  coordinate that activity because everyone's been so busy with the 
  20th that's it.
Kimberly Linson:  Thank you and 1 of the reasons that we are um 
  that we've we've asked will to sort of collect this information 
  and like really.
Kimberly Linson:  A moment in each meeting where we uh bring it 
  to the to the group is because we know there are folks out there 
  that want want to contribute and want to be um working on these 
  projects more more specifically but you need an Avenue in um and 
  and so that's 1 of the reasons we're bringing them here is 
  because you know that old expression many hands make light work 
  uh we we know that there are lots of folks who have been deep in 
  this knowledge and and working for a long time but we want to 
  encourage um other folks to get involved in the work so hopefully 
  as you hear us each week start to talk about these um work items 
  you'll become um more and more interested in uh in getting 
  involved so uh Joe.
Kimberly Linson:  Did you have a question comment.
Joe Andrieu:  Yes I was double muted um I just want a plus 1 on 
  that confidence method we are very interested in supporting it 
  and we know of at least 1 other and maybe it's going to be a 
  co-lead with us on that Speck but um everything manager said is 
  also true we've all been distracted with the the uh bcdm work so 
  I expect that to re-emerge as active in the next month or 2.
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you will for for spearheading this.
Kimberly Linson:  All right well that brings us to our main 
  agenda so um I'm going to go ahead and turn uh the mic over to 
  Marianne and let her introduce herself and talk about her work uh 
  and then we will have a discussion.
Manu Sporny: +1 To Will for spearheading -- really important for 
  us to work on this stuff and convey what's being worked on.

Topic: #WhyID Digital Identity Toolkit

<pl/t3> Lost the video and audio at my end
Kimberly Linson:  Did we lose Marianne.
Kimberly Linson:  Yes it appears to fill okay.
Harrison_Tang: I think we lost it right.
Kimberly Linson:  Yes I'm emailing her to make sure she knows on 
  on her end.
<manu_sporny> yep, no audio from Marianne.
Kimberly Linson:  She's okay good.
Kimberly Linson:  Yes we can hear you.
<dmitri_zagidulin> those look fabulous!
<pl/t3> Great point - biometrics are the problem and the harm 
  they can make.
<pl/t3> Agh biometrics are NOT the problem their harm in misuse 
  is the problem
Simone Ravaoli: PL/T3: 
  https://www.dw.com/en/german-defense-minister-von-der-leyens-fingerprint-copied-by-chaos-computer-club/a-18154832
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
<nick_doty> (don't see anything on screen)
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Nick - you may need to reload the tab
Kimberly Linson:  Great this is gorgeous and so interesting and 
  engaging um Manu.
<jeff_o_/_humanos> Very Nice Approach Indeed
Manu Sporny:  Yeah thanks um Kimberly uh Marion this is wonderful 
  uh amazing stuff um uh a number of us I don't know how much you 
  know about this this community but you know we started probably 
  back in 2014 uh and a number of us met at the ID 2020 initiative 
  at the United Nations uh to try and provide uh individuals with 
  um identity uh of the 2.4 billion people on the planet that that 
  don't have you know an identity but do it in a privacy preserving 
  human rights um respecting way so everything that you have said 
  today I think very positively and strongly resonates with many of 
  us in this community um most recently you asked about 
  collaboration um most recently and I think Nick Nick Dodie from 
  Center for democracy and Tech.
Manu Sporny:   Technology is.
Manu Sporny:  Simone uh is here from w3c their number of us that 
  are trying to work on um a document that covers just about 
  everything that you said today like we we need a harms model 
  right um so so you know we create technical standards and uh we 
  do work with technology but we're very conscious of what that 
  means for human rights in uh the the potential for abuse.
<tallted_//_ted_thibodeau_(he/him)_(openlinksw.com)> All that 
  stuff we just saw — https://www.accessnow.org/campaign/whyid/
Manu Sporny:  To run ahead and make sure that we have documented 
  harms models documented threats models uh we know you know how 
  the technology you know should fit into that infrastructure and 
  we know what technologies are um we shouldn't build because of 
  the harms that they they might create or when we do build 
  Technologies we know what to optimize for so everything that you 
  I'm looking through this deck now everything that you have talked 
  in here feels like something that we need to uh put in uh to uh 
  the harms model um security model uh that we're authoring at at 
  the worldwide Web Consortium um.
Manu Sporny:  So all that to say you're you know I there's a lot 
  of room to collaborate here um and I hope I see Simone has put 
  himself on the Queue I hope nick uh you can speak to some of the 
  work that you've been doing uh in the space as well so so anyway 
  we absolutely want to work with you on G taking some of these 
  Concepts that you have already fleshed out really well in pulling 
  them into the the standards process at the worldwide Web 
  Consortium that's it.
Kimberly Linson:  That's great thank you Manu Simone.
Kimberly Linson:  You may be muted.
<nick_doty> definitely of interest! I think we should thoroughly 
  review to make sure the threat models and considerations cover 
  everything in the WhyID toolkit
Kimberly Linson:  We can't hear you if you're if you're talking.
<manu_sporny> yes, definitely ^
<simone_onofri> checking headphones
<nick_doty> (feeding the baby and putting him down for a nap, so 
  won't be able to chat right now)
<manu_sporny> no problem ^ I'll try to link to harms document... 
  security model
Kimberly Linson:  And I'm I don't know if you all are reading the 
  chat but Simone is checking his headphones and Nick is feeding 
  the baby and putting him down for a nap which I like so jealous 
  because I would like to I would like to do that um but this is um 
  very exciting work I don't know Marianne after listening to Manu 
  did you have do you have some thoughts on.
Kimberly Linson:   On Waze.
Kimberly Linson:  Great great simony I think you're back.
Kimberly Linson:  Yes we can hear you great.
<manu_sporny> Threat Modeling for Decentralized Identities: 
  https://github.com/WICG/digital-credentials/issues/115
<manu_sporny> Joint work on rights-respecting digital 
  credentials: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/458
<manu_sporny> Verifiable Credentials Overview: 
  https://w3c.github.io/vc-overview/
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you.
Kimberly Linson:  Marion I I am wondering you know when you sit 
  down with a group to do sort of to to to work with the deck like 
  how how long do you like could you talk a little bit about what 
  that what that session looks like.
<simone_onofri> Threat Model 
  https://github.com/WICG/digital-credentials/issues/115
Kimberly Linson:  Great thank you I'm I'm already thinking of of 
  lots of different.
Kimberly Linson:  Ways in places that that that this would be 
  just such a great activity um for folks to just get them thinking 
  and I think it's so important that the cards are simple and don't 
  have a lot of of the content that you have in the you know saved 
  on them because this has to be.
Kimberly Linson:  This has to be delivered to folks uh in layers 
  it it is too too complex to sort of give it to everyone all at 
  once and giving them just enough content um I think is a great is 
  a great strategy uh Manu you're on the queue.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah thanks Kimberly um.
Manu Sporny:  So Marian I.
Manu Sporny:  Looking I'm looking at this slight slightly 
  differently so I think it's great the way that you um you know 
  engage communities and uh convey um the information in the way 
  that you do it it is vital to be able to convey this to people 
  that are not you know down in the in the technology depths um 
  that said I think the way um.
Manu Sporny:  That this stuff would be most helpful to those of 
  us writing technical standards so so 1 1 other piece of 
  background that you might not have is that a number of us are 
  software developers and software vendors and we sell these uh in 
  in the best of cases uh privacy respecting um uh you know harms 
  avoiding um uh human rights respecting systems these identity 
  systems to like state governments National governments and things 
  of that nature so not only are we involved in kind of creating 
  the standards but some of us um have software companies where we 
  sell this technology um into you know organizations um and and so 
  you know we're very well-versed in kind of the concerns here but 
  always struggle.
<marianne_díaz_hernández> feel free to cutting and pasting xD
Manu Sporny:  Uh to convey the information in a straightforward 
  manner to those that need to read it so I'm I'm looking 
  specifically at the deck the digital ID tool kit and I'm 
  specifically looking at the harms cards and the mitigations cards 
  in the language that you have in there uh could be literally cut 
  and pasted into the uh specifications that we're talking about 
  especially the harms model and the and the security model stuff 
  so the question to you is you know would you be averse to that in 
  in any way I know you know we all have to kind of talk about it 
  and come to consensus about the the language but you know having 
  read through the language and being involved in this for for you 
  know um more than a decade now it feels like a direct mapping 
  into kind of what we need so you have you have language that has 
  been written that we still need to write in it may be the best 
  way to start there is to take exactly what you have.
Manu Sporny:  Move it in.
Manu Sporny:  Kind of some of these Global standards documents I 
  don't know if you see any concern or danger um in doing that what 
  are what are your thoughts there.
Kimberly Linson:  Great managers you have more.
Manu Sporny:  Excellent yeah I'm sorry I am I am going to be 
  quite after this I know I'm monopolizing the the cube but this is 
  super important work and and stuff that we've need been needing 
  to do for a while now and so like this is a great opportunity uh 
  Marion that's that fantastic that that's great um the the last 
  question I have is how much I know it's always really difficult 
  to find time to be involved in all the things that you need to be 
  involved in but would you be able to be involved or somebody from 
  your team be able to be involved uh to make sure that when we 
  integrate this stuff that it continues to be aligned with what 
  access now in the Y program uh would like to see me meaning that 
  there's a way for us to invite you in as an invited expert to the 
  global standard setting and you know um stuff and um uh and I 
  think that would probably be the best path to ensure that you 
  know when we translate this when when we pull it in uh there's a 
  consensus process where everyone's kind of got to agree on the 
  language.
Manu Sporny:   Things change.
Manu Sporny:  That that that kind of cycle we want to make sure 
  that you have in your team have input into that process um to 
  either approve or object um um on on the on any changes we might 
  make do you have do you how much how much would you be able to 
  participate in some capacity maybe an hour a month at most to to 
  help us do that.
Manu Sporny:  Excellent thank you we'll we'll definitely be in 
  touch touch over email thank.
Kimberly Linson:  Great this is yeah very exciting does anyone 
  else have questions for Marianne.
Kimberly Linson:  Marianne I was wondering a little bit about um 
  the signatories and and I was looking at that on your your 
  website what is your what are what are your goals um for for 
  signatories and and communicating this.
Kimberly Linson:  Even more broadly.
Kimberly Linson:  Yes definitely a lot.
<pl/t3> :+1:
<sharon_leu> Thank you!
Kimberly Linson:  Well thank you so much for for coming today 
  this was really exciting and and the the toolkit is is incredible 
  um and I'm certainly looking forward to being a part of a session 
  at some point in the future where I get to uh to to Think Through 
  think through it all with with all of you um so I hope that uh 
  you all have a great week we look forward to seeing you next week 
  uh I know that Harrison has a has a great agenda and went through 
  it earlier um and we will enjoy.
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks!!
Kimberly Linson:  You all through the summer thanks everybody 
  have a great week.
<marianne_díaz_hernández> Thank you so much, everyone!
Kimberly Linson:  And thank you again Marianne this was really 
  really fantastic.

Received on Wednesday, 12 June 2024 17:15:36 UTC