- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 20:57:39 +0000
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
The transcript for the call is now available here:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-24-vc-education/
Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-24-vc-education/audio.ogg
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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2023-04-24
Agenda:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2023Apr/0006.html
Topics:
1. IP Note
2. Call Notes
3. Introductions & Reintroductions
4. Main Topic: Brooke Lipitz from ASU Trusted Learner Network
(TLN)
Organizer:
Kerri Lemoie
Scribe:
Our Robot Overlords
Present:
Kerri Lemoie, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Chris Webber, Brooke Lipsitz,
Eric Sembrat, Alan Davies, Jeff O - HumanOS, Stuart Freeman, Andy
Griebel, Marty Reed, Joey, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him)
(OpenLinkSw.com), Greg Bernstein, Jim Goodell, Deb Everhart,
Marianna Milkis, ASU Pocket, David Ward, Phil L (P1), Mahesh
Balan - pocketcred.com, Kimberly Linson, David Chadwick, Nate
Otto, Ryan Grant, Taylor (LEF), James Chartrand, David
Baumgartner@smartEduWallet, Phil Barker, Jake Hirsch-Allen,
Geun-Hyung, TimG, Naomi, Naomi Szekeres
<kerri_lemoie> Hello all - we'll get started in a couple of
minutes
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Hey welcome to the Monday April 24th verifiable
verify the credentials for Education task force today I would
like to welcome Brooke Brooke I'm sorry I'm and then we actually
said your last name I'm sorry Brooke lipsitz I saying that
correctly brick is a here from ASU the learning that and trusted
Learning Network so she's going to tell us about the work that
they've been doing.
Kerri Lemoie: Doing there.
Topic: IP Note
Kerri Lemoie: Let me first so go through our proposed agenda and
then we will get going let brick take it from there so our first
thing is about IP notes if you've been on these calls before you
have a you've heard this.
Kerri Lemoie: So any any contributions to the specifications at
w3c require membership and full IP our agreements to be signed
this is open Community College so it's not required to attend
these calls but if you intend to do some some more work that is
something that you should look into secondly for call notes Here
in the chat.
Topic: Call Notes
Kerri Lemoie: So all of the minutes for these calls and audio
recording and actually also a video recording of anybody
requested are all take place for this whole call and so note that
we do that so that those who can't attend the call even those who
are here and want to reference it later I'm have it available to
them in a public setting.
Kerri Lemoie: So we used it see here on the left for our chat I
think some folks might use IRC but primarily we used to see here
and we use a cue system to to have conversations so if you like
to kill yourself you can either hit the hand signal and the
bottom low or hand dashboard of Duty or you could type key + to
raise your hand or q- treasure hand just like I did in the chap.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay what do we start with introductions and
reintroductions.
Kerri Lemoie: Since you are new today could I ask you to
introduce yourself.
Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
Brooke_Lipsitz: Absolutely I'm Brooke lipsitz I'm the product
manager of the trusted learner network with ASU Enterprise
technology I work closely with Kate you have a Keeney who I'm
sure you've seen before in this space and also partner with
third-party developers and some of the people that are on the
call and our architecture and advisory committee so we have a lot
of collaboration in the space.
Brooke_Lipsitz: and without the help of.
<stuartf> IRC and matrix.org chat are bridged into the Jitsi chat
Brooke_Lipsitz: Keep people in their insights we probably would
not be at the stage of development were currently at and happy to
be here and show you the work that we've done over the last 10
months or so.
Kerri Lemoie: Awesome thank you brick anybody else that's new to
the call today or somebody who like to reintroduce themselves
before we get going.
Kerri Lemoie: When you see a cube minus in the chat that is the
checking to see if anybody is it like you.
Kerri Lemoie: Topics: Announcements & Reminders
Kerri Lemoie: Does anybody have any announcements or reminders
that I'd like to tell the community about if so you can give
yourselves up right now to do that.
<kerri_lemoie> Upcoming CCG Meetings & Events:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
<brooke_lipsitz> 2023 TLN Unconference is 5/18! We'd love to have
all of you join us in Phoenix!
Kerri Lemoie: Hey I also do not have any announcements or
reminders although I could post this link here in case you want
to know what is going on at the ccg this is where announcements
are typically made and also in the mailing list this week was
outside last week was the internet identity workshop and I
suspect we'll start hearing some more about what happened there
I'm excited to learn about that.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay then with that why don't we start with our
main topic and brick thank you for being here again today I love
you I have the pleasure of working with brick and others on this
call on the architecture advisory committee and I really have a
soft spot in my heart for this project I think they're doing some
really great interesting work and thinking about verifiable
credentials in a very different way from a network approach and I
think I you'll find her what.
Kerri Lemoie: They're doing really interesting brick once you
take it from here.
Kerri Lemoie: We can when you're done we can see if there any
questions how about that.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Okay great let me just figure out that I want to
make sure I can share my screen.
Topic: Main Topic: Brooke Lipitz from ASU Trusted Learner Network (TLN)
Brooke_Lipsitz: Can everyone see my screen.
Brooke_Lipsitz: So I'm going to be running you through our lean
tln interface I'm trying to do less and less slides the more I
present just because I noticed there tends to be a difference so
I figure I might as well just jump straight in so we've just
rounded out our phase one development for the tln so less than a
year ago we didn't have even the architecture in place.
Brooke_Lipsitz: and that was something that we worked with our.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Visors during our 2022 tln on conference on some
of the people on the call were actually a part of that meeting so
shout out to Stuart and Roger Davies as well so we've really come
a long way considering we had essentially nothing in place to
then having a blueprint developing an alpha Tech stack
establishing governance you.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Events like plugfest to to help guide some of our
early design decisions and considerations and now we're at this
place to where we're also having another development company help
us can take into consideration institutional few and development
the what I'm going to show you today is the learner view of the
tln or and again this is still early development so I'm sure much
of this might change over time.
Brooke_Lipsitz: I'm but just.
Brooke_Lipsitz: So the Crux of what we're doing essentially but
all of this even though we're using certain Technologies and
semantic standards all this is really about simplifying access to
namely course credentials degree credentials that Learners have
learned throughout their career our angle into this with regard
to credit Mobility.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Fostering movement and reducing friction is that
you know there's this firm belief that this is a lifelong journey
and the more we can do to remove barriers and in the Learner
Journey the better it is for obviously the learner as well as the
institution and facilitating this movement it's not just a
transcript for you that can hold students back but even leans.
Brooke_Lipsitz: she added with an account so we've.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Trying to Envision other ways to essentially give
Learners access to the records that they've learned ideally from
a single source to be able to share out and again he's that
movement regardless of what their status is at a university
financially so to speak verifiable credentials are one way of
working around that in the space so that's a big part of why
we've been talking with out with all of you throughout.
Brooke_Lipsitz: out four different considerations.
Brooke_Lipsitz: So where we're at today is we have a lien UI and
a back end for this and for calls in particular to be made to the
tln so we've just envisioned what it would look like for a
learner to manage their credentials and actually based on some of
what we've experienced there's still some design considerations
that we are taking into consideration for the beginning stages of
this because when we initially set this up it was designed to
work.
Brooke_Lipsitz: work with a wallet so you'd come and bring your
own wallet and that.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Be utilizing for identification purposes however
that's proven to have certain barriers in and of itself and so
what are you discussing is ways to make that easier assuming that
you know having to come with another Identity or another set of
credentials might be a barrier for a portion of the Learners that
would be using this platform so again there there's always
something in progress that we have to consider or pivot to make a
change for.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Jin the tln right now and seeing a learner coming
to use the service we expect it to be very simple so this is a
place that more often than not you'll probably be guided to you
by another application that needs verification of your records
and the idea would be a learner would be coming to the talent to
be able to access credentials from multiple institutions in one
single place in this particular view I have two institutions.
Brooke_Lipsitz: I have ASU and also namely.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Beta Community College where I've earned
credentials in the particular use case example that I give I
talked about how I might want to take an internship in DC and so
there's relevant coursework that they need to see in order to
ensure that I've met their eligibility criteria namely that I've
earned an associate's degree and then I have some relevant
history classes to prove that I'm on that track for example so
selecting.
Brooke_Lipsitz: credentials in the TL.
Brooke_Lipsitz: I don't have to share everything I have the
option to bundle my credentials for sharing or expert them
directly to a wallet so if I created a bundle specifically for DC
internship.
Brooke_Lipsitz: I can do just that and again it gives me the
ability to change how I share or who I share with or I can even
just delete the bundle that I have in place so if in this case I
want to add gamma Tech University to institutions that I'm
sharing this with I can do that as well.
Brooke_Lipsitz: The inferior the ideal would be to have multiple
institutions participating in the tln already available to the
learner to help make this process easier but that is something
that we're brainstorming and figuring out how best to draw in
various institutions for this purpose so that's a big part of
this as well to Learners would have the ability to change their.
Brooke_Lipsitz: consent at any.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Again this is very learner Centric learner first
that we're designing and developing for and we also have a
companying services that we plan for constituents of the tln to
work with namely another credit Mobility tool that we have in
place which is interactive degree planner that's currently in
development right now but the idea is that a learner could share
credentials that they've earned to.
Brooke_Lipsitz: institutions to help them plan.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Future directory with regards to earning a
degree.
Brooke_Lipsitz: This is all still early stages so to speak and
that's the bulk of what I have to show off from a demo
perspective we have Hi-Fi mock-ups that we're working on for our
institutional development but that is that development likely
won't be ready until middle of June to be able to show off so
we're really excited about that.
Brooke_Lipsitz: that as well.
Brooke_Lipsitz: The yeah the the demo itself of the Chillin is
fairly simplistic Roger Stewart if there's anything that you
would like to add based on the work you've done on the a AC to
speak to some of this by all means.
<phil_l_(p1)> What does 'bundling' mean vs. export to a wallet?
The latter seems self-explanatory pushing credentials to a wallet
for sending from there, I assume.
<kerri_lemoie> Stuart speaking
Stuart Freeman: Sure I think this is a really interesting and
cool project and obviously has a lot of.
Stuart Freeman: Good cutting from it with the the ability for
the user to sort of be self Sovereign I think the challenge that
we're going to face is you know adoption getting people at the
institutions to understand.
Stuart Freeman: Now this is actually still you know private
until the user opens things up.
Stuart Freeman: And just yeah the the ability to.
Stuart Freeman: Run their own infrastructure versus having a
contract from want to do it and how we get everyone interoperable
I think that's the.
Stuart Freeman: Going forward at this point.
<roger_davies> Phil, the bundling allows for curation inside the
TLN without having to pull and mediate through a wallet (when all
participants are members).
<kerri_lemoie> Will call on you next, @nate
Brooke_Lipsitz: And Phil I saw your question about bundling
bundling is another way of grouping credential so having the
ability to pick and choose and then create a bundle oh you know
or if in the case you're not using a wallet to be able to export
that grouping of credentials in this space so essentially
bundling could be thought of as creating unique.
Brooke_Lipsitz: comprehensive learner records that.
Brooke_Lipsitz: It was a collection of records that you're
sharing in a cluster so to speak I don't know if that helps.
<phil_l_(p1)> As a VP or ?
Brooke_Lipsitz: Explain the usage of the bundling feature not but
also open to any feedback on that as well too.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Is the VC is that what you're asking Phil.
<nate_otto_(he/him)> So is the bundle a ClrCredential compliant
with CLR 2.0?
Phil_L_(P1): No as a verifiable presentation as opposed to a VC.
Brooke_Lipsitz: That's a great question.
Kerri Lemoie: I don't think that's been figured out yet.
Phil_L_(P1): So is the intention that this will be a bundle that
is sent via email from the platform or it's just not clear yet.
Brooke_Lipsitz: That yeah that's not clear yet either how do we
how do we send this to a third party if not through a wallet so
that's something we still need to consider as well too.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> the way it looked to me, the
bundle is just a convenience inside the platform
Brooke_Lipsitz: We know we can issue is VCS we have that capacity
but again it is a good question as far as how are we exporting
this and to into where if it's outside of the TL on.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to call Arnie made out of who has a
question about about the universities that are participating Nate
you have the floor.
<phil_l_(p1)> @Deb that's what I inferred by wanted more clarity
Nate_Otto_(he/him): Thanks looks exciting to see this application
coming here I had a question about the sharing two institutions
screen that you briefly showed wondering how the institutions get
placed into that list of options that someone could share to and
then what actually happens when you select to share to a
particular Institution.
Brooke_Lipsitz: So ideally these are institutions that want to be
a part of the tln they've been vetted we've determined that they
met some degree of issuance quality there's been some Wedding by
the governing body so this is still in Pilot as well too is
figuring out what that process looks like as far as options for
sharing learner would be able to just grant TL.
Brooke_Lipsitz: then access in.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Any institution on the teal on could have access
to their credentials also change specifically to have select
institutions access their credentials like maybe if I am only
interested in sharing between Arizona State and beta Community
College and the gamma Tech is opposed to UT Austin and Georgia
Tech I want to want to manage those permissions differently or
being able to set them so we're their private.
Brooke_Lipsitz: to me then it's not discoverable to any.
Brooke_Lipsitz: In the tln except for the issuing institution I
should say so the by default if an institution is issued credits
to then they do have access to the credentials they've issued to
you but they wouldn't be able to see other credentials on the
network associated with you without your there your explicit
permission.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): So it sounds like it's a different user who
is authenticated to the same domain who then gets to see the
thing is there any transfer of data from one instance of an
application to outside of the application to another one that was
part of this sharing.
Brooke_Lipsitz: There could be through my services and so and
just the key would be notifying the learner that when you're when
you start to share outside of the tln that access could be
persistent so just being mindful of that even with interactive
degree planner for example you know once you're sharing outside
of the network.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Bearing in mind there's less control over what
you share it because again each application you share with is
going to have their own terms of services on how they utilize
their data so I think the key for us is just making sure that
we're very clear on to the learner or the end-user how their data
could be used if we have a designated third-party application and
place that they could share out too.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): Cool thanks for the info just since I have to
have the mic one more follow-up do you have any like API
documentation or a description of what this connection to these
other services entails.
Brooke_Lipsitz: That's a great question I could follow up with my
developer I don't I don't know that they have any explicit
documentation but that's something that we should probably be
making available shortly for people to reference especially if we
plan to utilize other applications in the future it's something
that we definitely need to have in place if we don't currently
but I'll check with my developer to see if we have anything on
our GitHub for example.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Nick my hash from pocket Krabs you have
the floor.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Thank you very nice to see right
here I'm an alumnus of ASU so I'm excited someday too maybe even
retrieve my 30-year old records through this method so true it is
wonderful just had a couple of questions first one is I presume
this is conformant to open badges 3.0 is that a correct
statement.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: in terms of standards as.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: All verifiable credential
standards that you use.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Yes well for plugfest to we had to aligned the
open badge standard but that is something that we want to commit
to as well as to maintaining that data is still a big part of
this so we're figuring out is how data is ingested and also
shared because not just open badge but we also want to be able to
export into other formats as well too and so that's a big.
Brooke_Lipsitz: big part of this but yes opened by open badge.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Those formats that we plan to have criteria
shared in that format.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: So far another question kind of
related is how do you identify the subject today you know so this
is kind of like you said and you know it's not like you know the
classic example that you see where somebody comes in with their
wallet and they can give you a did and so on and so forth so you
would have to identify the subject to the or the student here
right how do you identify this tool subject within the.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: the verifiable credential in this
in this.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Doing right now.
Brooke_Lipsitz: So it's interesting that you say that because we
actually had it set up to do that using a wallet and a did for
for the demo example that I have I was using the various wallet
specifically however just by using and again this varus is great
so it's nothing on the various wallet but the barriers in demoing
if they're if something's going wrong with the varus wallet have
all indicated that we need to have some other form of.
Brooke_Lipsitz: identity management for a learner to access.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Because we don't want barriers to accessing your
wallet to impact your access to the tln but at the same time
there's a difference of opinion on whether or not the teal and
should be managing you know their own created accounts for
example or something those along those lines so that's something
we still have to reconcile so as of this point you can use a did
from a wallet to connect and then beyond that like when I
validate different.
Brooke_Lipsitz: tutions are ASU it's it's built into.
Brooke_Lipsitz: So so if I if I were to reset this and wanted to
connect to Arizona State University and actually prompts me to
enter in My ASU credentials because it's connecting and
validating that way to be even pull up my Arizona State
credentials just really hard to show once it caches that
information unfortunately so when connecting the various
institutions were hoping to still utilize SSO and oid see but
there is something that we still need to reconcile at the out.
Brooke_Lipsitz: outset which is what is.
Brooke_Lipsitz: The main source for someone connecting to the tln
which we haven't fully reconciled but we're leaning to the place
of someone needs to have another way to connect Beyond a wallet
and if so what would that look like.
<roger_davies> Phil, yes the whole structure is available through
signed queries using GraphQL and a couple of other formats
(Sparkle, a SQL adjacent query stucture etc). We haven't
formalized the standards yet. As Brooke indicated we're hoping
to support a few output formats transparently (Open Badge 3, CLR
2 etc).
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Yeah and so that's to connect to
tln but what about what's in the verifiable credential itself so
if I went in and say downloaded or exported my credential what
would it say in the subject field would it give my ASU ID or
would it give my email or date of birth or name I was curious how
you kind of solve that problem especially in the absence of a
wallet right.
Brooke_Lipsitz: That's a great question and I don't think we've
gotten that far we did just a minimum viable criteria for
plugfest to and Carrie can you speak to this with we're any of
those criteria in the VC that we issued or what were the four
main criteria to issue is an open badge that we needed.
Kerri Lemoie: Right forever plexus to we did I had to be no
match 3.0 and basically we were just using a decentralised
identifiers to for the identity to keep it pretty simple for
breakfast too.
Brooke_Lipsitz: So if we connected with a wallet we could have
used that decentralized identifier in the VC okay okay.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah that's true.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah yeah you used a chappie to your connecting
service yep.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Super just what sorry I just last
thing is there any of this work visible as open source or do you
plan to do it at some point in the future.
Brooke_Lipsitz: It's were using all open source standards but
yeah I mean ideally at a certain point we would like to have it
available especially because we know to a degree degree
institutions connecting with the tln are going to need access to
relevant materials to do that especially if they're going to have
different ways in which they need to manage their data or their
networking configurations so as of right now I don't have.
Brooke_Lipsitz: anything publicly.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Again that's just based on the stage that we're
at since we're still in a prototype stage but as we get further
along I'm I'm I'm confident that there will be portions of this
that will be publicly available to review.
Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Thank you Brooke and Kay.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Deb Everhart from Credential Engine has
the floor
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Hi thanks I'm great to see this
thank you I think you know your point earlier about adoption is
always as always a challenge but I think we can support adoption
together in terms of the data structure so if the data structure
inside the system and also have a data is moving between systems
is using CDL think that will bring in different institutions.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): tuitions and even state.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Have a lot of data already in
CTL and make it more useful and the just a comment and then a
question about the you know like adding up your credits and
sharing them with other institutions I assume that those are
currently based on existing articulation agreement so I'll let
you comment on that but also just point out that CTL also
provides a data structure for transfer.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): values so that it.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Not only those that are already
known to the system but that could be pulled in from other
sources in sitio.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> CTDL transfer value
https://credreg.net/ctdl/handbook#transfervalue
Brooke_Lipsitz: Really great feedback and I definitely appreciate
that Insight with regard to see TDL interestingly enough this
credit calculator feature this was something that our developer
generated but it did pose a problem for us and that.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Institutions measure or determine credits
differently so this is probably not going to be a feasible
service but what he was trying to show off was how you could
utilize the simple Lambda function within the tln to do some of
the work for you without having to take data outside of the tln
meaning like that might be an option at a future date granted
from our perspective that's probably not going to.
Brooke_Lipsitz: see how the tln is going to function.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Primarily because we're not trying to supplant
what any other dedicated service could be doing for the learner
and especially with more sophistication or taking in
consideration articulation agreements being like that's this is
not the main purpose of the tln so I appreciate that call out
because this this is something that we probably should update
because again it's going to be confusing for people who know more
in depth about that.
Brooke_Lipsitz: it what's more applicable is probably this
Interactive.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Enter path but again that's really just focusing
on sharing your credentials with the service like interactive
degree planner so this is really just giving the ability to share
with that service that.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Is sophisticated to be able to do that or has
those articulation agreements or has a stronger understanding of
how FERPA works for example so so if this if this piece threw you
off we are aware that this is probably not not going to stay but
really good observation and call out for sure.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Well certainly all three of
these are our valuable services but also all very complex so
anything we can do to help normalize the data infrastructure for
that were happy to be engaged to just let us know.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Thank you so much Debbie really appreciate the
feedback.
Kerri Lemoie: Awesome Phil Barker you have the floor.
Brooke_Lipsitz: I think anything that eases the lift is something
that we're interested in I know we've talked about pesky at a
certain point as well too oh Roger feel free to speak up
specifically regarding this I see your hand raised.
Alan Davies: Yeah so we've actually looked at pesky little bit
one of the reasons we've looked at it is because many of the
institutional student Information Systems already have some
mechanism to support pasch so we thought just like you identified
it would be an easy way and easy format for institutions to
generate transcript like data into for us to consume that work
certainly hasn't been completed that it is one of the things we
have.
Alan Davies: Playing around with a.
Alan Davies: Aspiration of the goal is to make onboarding
institutions and their data as streamlined as possible and we're
you know we're pursuing a lot of different Avenues to try to make
that easier including some you know AI tricks you know there's
more than one attempt being made but pass could certainly one of
the things we've looked into largely because a couple of the
institutions who are participating very actively.
Alan Davies: Hurting past credentials.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you feeling Roger Mariana from ASU pocket
you have the floor.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Hello thank you hi Brooke I just
realized that we were you know kind of in parallel on AC
Enterprise technology side of things and I was just curious
Brooke to hear your thoughts on CLR format as you talk about
bundling and that seems to be one of the use cases and I know I
get asked that a lot of whether or not as you walk it will
support ov3 nclr and I know you already are supporting of e3 so
wanted to ask about CLR.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: and also about case standards.
<phil_l_(p1)> are you talking about CLRv2?
<marianna_milkis,_asu_pocket> Yes, thanks Phil
Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah ideally we would support CL are some of the
logic was once we need once we can guarantee that we're
supporting open badge three that essentially paves the way for us
to be compatible with CLR but the trickiest part with the data is
even just figuring out the best way to map even our own data just
how we utilize it and Raj.
Brooke_Lipsitz: your Davies can speak more to.
<roger_davies> Yeah, Badge 3, CLR 2
Brooke_Lipsitz: To just the goofy nature in which we package our
own data for transcripts has unique so it's not just a matter of
using PeopleSoft language or Banner it's you know what
anticipating how instapage how institutions are using data
themselves as well to like how much of a.
Brooke_Lipsitz: How much heavy lifting are we going to have to do
upfront with institutions to be able to.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Ingest their data for example we're hoping that
maybe there are some barriers we can break down at the outset but
we also want to make sure that institutions can bring their own
data and that's not going to be a problem but in and of itself we
have our own as I'm sure you can relate to Mariana with data with
pocket as well too it's just it's interesting how we.
Brooke_Lipsitz: are concatenated.
Brooke_Lipsitz: For example and it looks like it's one particular
record that we're pulling from but it might be a few different
ones for example so I hope that answered the first part of your
question then the second I'm sorry that Mariana the second part
of your question was.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Just around K standards and yeah I
mean it answers it's kind of similar to how we feel but I do
think that there is a benefit to eventually driving towards just
like we're talking about normalizing all the all the data
structures kind of driving towards compatibility with that
because the registrar's office at the registrar's admin a crowd
has approved still ours for kind of a standard for.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Sharing College transfer transcripts
so it's feels like an incentive to sink in that direction but
yeah they had that question was about the case standards.
Brooke_Lipsitz: You know we should probably compare notes about
it offline because I'm sure Mariana your team is much more tapped
in as far as what Michael Crow is recommending or anticipating I
don't I don't know that we've gotten that far to be quite honest
so that's something that we definitely should be considering.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Happy to definitely talk with you more offline as
well to based on what you've learned up until this point.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Sure sounds good yeah and I'm just
to be clear I don't know for sure if that is being adopted at ASU
at the moment I just know that like Tennessee Board of regions
and Alabama and bunch of other places have actually started
implementing that so you know could that but yeah let's chat.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah yeah that would be great you know and some
of the design some of what we've built into this design is
aspirational in and of itself like we're using rdf and we're
making some assumptions about rdf framework and its ability to
into it and infer that we haven't really been able to test or
prove out yet so that will be interesting to see.
Brooke_Lipsitz: so as we start.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Map to different data schemas and seeing how the
system starts to recognize new data for example but it is a again
a big guess up until we can get to the point where we're actually
testing it but data is a big part of this and something that you
know we're still trying to get our head around the actual scope
for our next release cycle as far as what our goals with regard
to data what is achievable.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Al and what.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Should we be using to help us with this process.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah for sure.
Kerri Lemoie: Great thank you so long have the floor.
Phil_L_(P1): Thanks I just in listening to the conversation it
seems like it's probably useful to take a step back and and think
through or at least discuss whether that in the data structures
that you're talking about are for the purposes of internal
processing and manipulation of the data within the network versus
external communication and if it's for external communication
whether it's to somebody or.
Phil_L_(P1): ization that has a secure pipe that you can.
Phil_L_(P1): Can connect to versus someone that may not have that
like an individual alumni or or student where the only other
mechanism that you have for somebody like that is to provide the
security through the API that you're using to talk to them with
so a lot of the seems like you could parse this problem up a bit
and and then apply the appropriate methods that are optimized for
the eat.
Phil_L_(P1): each of those three sort of use cases.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> for external communication of
the meaning of the credentials, include a link in the alignment
field to metadata in CTDL in the Registry
Phil_L_(P1): The form of the data for transport can be any number
of things even in the VC world and wrapped by a VC as and then
transported by a secure protocol like jappy here we see a pi or
PID c4d for whatever is the most appropriate for the audience
you're talking about whereas point-to-point Communications with
other institutions is just a whole other thing which is where
past can many of the.
Phil_L_(P1): organizations of that sort have been focused in the
past.
https://credentialengine.org/resources/how-to-align-digital-credentials-with-meaningful-ctdl-data/
Phil_L_(P1): I just think it would be helpful to parse this a
little bit and then think about the subsets of in approaches to
those that might be useful to you in those contexts thanks.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Phil thank you so much that's very well put in in
thoughtful and definitely something that we need to take into
consideration so I really appreciate your feedback on that thank
you.
Kerri Lemoie: I thank you that you have before.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Yeah so thanks Phil that's a
great tee up and just you know one practical use of the data is
is for the metadata that can be shared and to have that bnct DL
so I think a really practical use case would be that when these
credentials are going to be issued to people for use in a wallet
and go outside the system that those credentials.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): ever form they take can use in
a.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): I'm meant to link to data
that's in CTL in the registry so that there is meaning beyond
what is actually limited amount of data that's in the credential
package itself so this is a pretty straightforward use case that
has immediate value in terms of making the credentials that are
issued to people easier to understand.
<phil_l_(p1)> Leveraging linked data for lean transport!
Brooke_Lipsitz: How complex is that to set up with CT DL.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Not not at all so like when you
showed that list of courses and credentials those are in some
sort of structured data because they're structured in your system
so either from The Source or from tln you could take the basic
even it doesn't even have to be a lot of fields of data but you
can even just put that in a spreadsheet it doesn't require an API
integration to.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): push it to the registry.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Then when you issue a
credential for any one of those courses or credentials to include
in the alignment a link to that data in the registry so when you
first set that up the data that the data that's in the registry
might be slim but then you can add to it over time so you could
have for example very valuable thing is to add the competencies
to those credentials and courses and then it can grow over time.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): I'm do include transfer value
Pathways whatever.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): You don't need to get into
those more complex use cases to just provide a connection between
the credential that's being issued and additional metadata does
that make sense.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah that makes sense.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): We're happy we're happy to help
with that and I put a link in the chat to a very short overview
document on that topic that's applicable for any digital
credentials.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah thank you Deb really appreciate it.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): There's there's a ton of
potential here so I'm just really happy to to see what are some
of the some of the practical ways to enrich it from very
beginning so.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Definitely appreciate and we're open to input
across the board to especially because we're still so early in
our development so any any ideas or any thoughts anyone wants to
share even after the call I'm happy to learn more about so thank
you.
Kerri Lemoie: It's great thank you everybody does anybody have
any other questions or feedback or comments they like to give
birth before we close today.
<mahesh_balan_-_pocketcred.com> Thank you Brooke!
<taylor_(lef)> Feel free to review/use anything from our docs
here as well: https://docs.learncard.com/
Kerri Lemoie: But thank you so much for presenting this work I
know folks have been curious about about what's been going on and
it's great to see it and for that for everybody else to see it to
you so thank you for being here today and walking us through it
all and being open to all the feedback and suggestions that's
great.
Brooke_Lipsitz: Thank you very thank you very much and thank you
for the opportunity I really appreciate it.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you everybody thank you very much for being
here I think next week we have an open Agenda so we will bring
your topics bring your questions and then also if you are ever
interested in presenting your project and the work you're doing
just reach out and we'll be happy to get you in the calendar.
Kerri Lemoie: Everyone have a good week.
Received on Tuesday, 2 May 2023 20:57:39 UTC