[MINUTES] W3C CCG Credentials CG Call - 2023-07-11

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-07-11/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-07-11/audio.ogg

----------------------------------------------------------------
W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference Transcript for 2023-07-11

Agenda:
  https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Jul&period_year=2023&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Organizer:
  Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Harrison Tang, Greg Bernstein, Erica Connell, Vanessa, Jeff O - 
  HumanOS, Carsten Bormann, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) 
  (OpenLinkSw.com), Gregory Natran, David Waite, Andres Uribe, 
  Hiroyuki Sano, Japan, Dmitri Zagidulin, Nis Jespersen , Lucy 
  Yang, John Kuo, Wendy Seltzer, Paul Dietrich GS1, Kaliya Young, 
  James Chartrand, Manu Sporny, Joe Andrieu, Leo, BrentZ, Eric 
  Vergnaud, Will, Kayode Ezike, Kimberly Linson, Geun-Hyung, Orie 
  Steele, David I. Lehn

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Hi everyone so welcome to this week's a w3c ccg 
  this week we have Hank and Carson I think Carson well let them 
  introduce themselves a little bit later but what have we have 
  them actually presenting the support concise planetary object 
  representation today but before we get to the main agenda just 
  want to do a couple and it's things first of all just.
Harrison_Tang: Of ethics and professional conduct reminder more 
  or less just make sure that we remain respectful acknowledge each 
  other's perspective at all times now quick IP note anyone can 
  participate in these calls however also extensive contributions 
  to an ECG work items must be member of the ccg with for IP our 
  agreement signed so make sure you have that w3c account and sign 
  the w3c coming.
Harrison_Tang:  UT contribution license agreement.
Harrison_Tang: If you have any questions or encounter any 
  problems just let any of the co-chairs know.
Harrison_Tang: Quick IP note we use GT chat to Q speakers during 
  the call so just type in 2 plus to add yourself to the Q q- to 
  remove it all the meetings minutes and no recordings will be 
  published within the next few days.
Harrison_Tang:  all right.
Harrison_Tang: Any introduction to reintroductions.
Harrison_Tang: Okay one I'm going to cue a Karsten not do you 
  mind introduce yourself a little bit.
Harrison_Tang: Great thank you Carson re I think I had a little 
  technical difficulties so that me a restart the subscriptions on 
  a second.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you and also Hank do you mind introduce 
  yourself a little bit to the audience.
Nis Jespersen :  Yeah hi Alison this is Hank.
Nis Jespersen :  Alvin okay yeah hi I'm Hank I'm also located in 
  Germany I'm working for to research institutes at the moment one 
  of them is for secure information technology and the other one is 
  for material science engineering and research so that is weird 
  combination my day job is Material Science at the moment but I've 
  been doing as not as long as Carson of course but to some extent.
Nis Jespersen :   Then some.
Nis Jespersen :  Computing group and the internet engineering 
  task force why is that we wanted to have trustworthy assertions 
  about rather a lot of interesting domains be a be the Department 
  of Defense as inventory set they have assets or other things that 
  we want to have believable assertions and that's where I think 
  the trusted Computing group is great they invented the term at a 
  station but recently in this redefined that.
Nis Jespersen :   Until being an endorsement.
Nis Jespersen :  Let's do that and and and they are not so good 
  at building protocol sometimes so the ietf was a good place to 
  try to influence of the specify a protocol for remote at the 
  station that's the different from challenge response and then the 
  realization came but well nobody knows how this works and and 
  also everybody wants to use see before this that's great TPMS do 
  not produce zero outputs and that is an interesting.
Nis Jespersen :   In conundrum so how do you combine something 
  with a powerful.
Nis Jespersen :  And the usefulness of.
Nis Jespersen :  Tseebo and such why you have to deal with but I 
  want to say Legacy native format still can't get rid of because 
  they're soldered into your iot device for the next 25 years and 
  yeah this is why I'm basically also here and working with Carson 
  a lot because we try to tie and trying to take it as sub section 
  of Carson's problem domain and Carson tries to take a subset of 
  my problem domain and really makes a lot of sense through this 
  together.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you Hank.
Harrison_Tang: All right any other introductions and 
  reintroductions feel free to unmute yourself.
Harrison_Tang: Okay well what about announcements and reminders 
  anyone have any announcements were reminders.
Kaliya Young:  Just a reminder that the internet identity 
  Workshop in Mountain View California is coming up October 10 to 
  12 and so it's sort of early this year so.
Kaliya Young:  And I'll also say we're really committed to 
  accessibility so if you want to be there we want you to be there 
  so reach out to us we can work with you and yeah I think it's 
  going to be a great number 37.
Harrison_Tang: Sounds good okay cool yeah that you can do.
Erica Connell: https://rwot12.eventbrite.com/
Harrison_Tang: McConnell you have the floor.
Harrison_Tang: You want to talk about the reboot web of trust.
Harrison_Tang: We can come back to you at a later time any other 
  announcements were reminders.
Harrison_Tang: All right any updates on the work items.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah I'll just mention since Oliver isn't here 
  there was a work item that was put out there around confidence 
  methods around verifiable credentials so this is a capability to 
  allow an issuer of a verifiable credential to convey how they 
  might verify that the entity or individual presenting that 
  credential is the same person that picked up the credential so.
<henk> Orie will join at the bottom of the hour
<econnell> Rebooting the Web of Trust will be convening Sept 
  18-22 in Cologne, Germany. Details and tickets here: 
  https://rwot12.eventbrite.com/
Manu Sporny:  One way that you can you know establish confidence 
  is the person uses the same public key Pairs and proof of 
  possession of a key is one mechanism but there are other 
  mechanisms available such as you know check their drivers license 
  that could be one confidence method it's been floating out there 
  for a while the issue is that I don't think Spruce has the time 
  to push that specification forward nor do we and I think there's 
  just an.
Manu Sporny:   Open call for anyone that's interested in.
Manu Sporny:  Our if folks wants to take that Speck over there's 
  a a just an open call for someone picking up that spec so that's 
  the first one the second item had to do with the verifiable 
  issuers and verifiable verifier lists so this work item is about.
Manu Sporny:  If an issuer should be trusted so people call these 
  like trust lists or a trust Frameworks but the idea here is that 
  you know for example if you get a digital driver's license how do 
  you know that the issuer is allowed to issue that driver's 
  license or the flip side is if someone asks you for your driver's 
  license how do you know if they're supposed to be able to ask for 
  it like are they an authority.
Manu Sporny:   E of some kind.
Manu Sporny:  Need to give a special exception to hand that 
  license over that group had their first meeting last week I 
  believe that group is going to meet every other week so this is 
  the verifiable issuers and verifiers task force that's operating 
  I think they'll be sending out jinja's every two weeks in this is 
  work that came out of the rebooting the web of trust blast 
  rebooting the web of trust around knowing who to trust who's 
  issuing.
Manu Sporny:   Essentials and who's.
Manu Sporny:  Um verifying credentials that's it.
Harrison_Tang: Thanks thanks money.
Harrison_Tang: Any other updates on the work Islands.
Harrison_Tang: All right let's get to this week's am an agenda so 
  over the past few months I think there's several threats and 
  conversations regards to Seaboard concise under binary objects 
  represent a breakfast representation and today we have two of the 
  most top experts on this topic on the call so Karsten and Hank 
  and we're very very.
Harrison_Tang:  very lucky and honored to have.
Harrison_Tang: To actually help present and answer any questions 
  on Seaport so Carson Hank the floors are yours.
Harrison_Tang: Yes Claire do you have a question.
Harrison_Tang: I think that she removed her herself on the Q so 
  please Carson please continue thanks.
Manu Sporny:  Hey Carson oh wonderful presentation always really 
  interesting to kind of hear from the people that created these 
  languages what went into them I'm interested more about kind of 
  the the creation of Seymour you mentioned that there were a 
  number of other packed binary formats that I would presume 
  Seaboard was kind of competing against with respect to attention 
  in which one of these things is going.
Manu Sporny:   Work and message pack was back.
Manu Sporny:  Large organizations how did how did that kind of 
  interplay work out in the group did you have to adjust the 
  initial you know Seaboard design like you mentioned there was a 
  split between integers and double Precision numbers what was kind 
  of what was the environment like during the during the creation 
  of Sabor was there a lot of collaboration between all the 
  different.
Manu Sporny:   Don't pack binary formats or.
Manu Sporny:  Everyone kind of in their own Camp trying to make 
  their pack binary format like message pack or be sand or win any 
  thoughts on kind of how the how that played out in the in the 
  working group and outside.
Manu Sporny:  Yes thank you.
<orie> pretty cool, fuzzing and validation tool chain.
Harrison_Tang: Bonnie you have the floor.
Manu Sporny:  On CDL thanks Harrison on CD Howe usage it feels 
  like it's multi-purpose of course one of the usages is to I guess 
  replace a b and F syntax or just be enough syntax and ITF specs 
  that work with see bore so I the first question is just 
  confirmation that that's one of the primary use cases there the 
  other use cases but.
Manu Sporny:   Essentially as a replacement for Json schema.
Manu Sporny:  Um is that a design goal or is that just you know 
  it only does a subset of Json schema what are the thoughts as far 
  as verifying objects in life systems using CDL libraries.
<orie> lets not think about astrals and surrogates, or unicode... 
  thank you...
Orie Steele: https://w3c.github.io/vc-json-schema/
Nis Jespersen :  Yeah I'm just adding one thing that I feel 
  surprisingly is missing from Carson Supply is that it's it's to 
  convey what you're doing from Human to human the same way it is 
  to enable very lightweight validation of structure so so it does 
  both the tree grammar aspect provides lightweight burden on 
  constraint or device.
Nis Jespersen :   Isis and the noise.
<orie> now imagine:
Nis Jespersen :  Type of representation provides lightweightness 
  on the human you can really read CD there and you can write it 
  fluently I had this exercise for someone was expecting what 
  protocol they want to have what goes where we had sketched for 
  its and everybody was like okay when can we have the 
  specification for this protocol and Rhoda just why we're talking 
  about it here is Hugo and they're expecting weeks and it took me 
  the same time they were talking about it so you can if you are 
  familiar with it you can write it fluently and / you have.
Nis Jespersen :   Signing protocol messages and I think that's 
  one big enabler of of CD I think that was.
Nis Jespersen :  Speedway and the context.
Harrison_Tang: Thanks Hank and David you have question.
<manu_sporny> Yes, JSON Schema is rarely "written fluently" :P
David_Waite: After I've enjoyed the presentation so far with CDL 
  having basically like 65 bit integers with tags lying for you 
  know new extensions for data types such as times and durations I 
  was wondering whether usage has been more along the lines of 
  defining messages pretty concretely to trade between.
David_Waite: Like parties is concise language or more as a object 
  model for having data and data archival with more of like a say a 
  Dom type mechanism for representing the Seymour.
David_Waite: I guess to expand upon that you have back in the XML 
  day so you had kind of the document crowd that considered that 
  you know SVG and HTML that you'd have specialized tools for 
  particular document formats and then you had the data crowd which 
  were geared more towards pools that were Universal across 
  everything you could possibly represent with X melon and 
  sometimes there were was a bit of an.
David_Waite:  impedance mismatch.
David_Waite: In the two and the one that making it more confusing 
  for people who wanted to use XML because different tools were 
  optimized for different problems which is you know kind of why we 
  had XML schema and and the mg stuff the wax and G at the same 
  time is because X-Men always serve those two markets I've just 
  wondering if if you saw see more being more used for like very 
  specific schema data.
David_Waite:  the format or.
David_Waite: More freeform extensible data formats.
Harrison_Tang: All right any one last question.
Harrison_Tang: Person or Hank do you have any like conclusions 
  any last conclusions for us.
Harrison_Tang: Sounds good well thank you thank you Carson thank 
  you Hank for hopping on the call and then actually she bore again 
  has been brought many many different times so thank you for 
  spending a time to kind of answer not just doing this 
  presentation the answer the question is for us if you don't mind 
  like sharing these slides I can follow up with you offline and 
  share it to the to the public list.
Harrison_Tang:  all right thank you thanks Carson and thanks 
  Hank.
Harrison_Tang: And this concludes that this week's w3c cgg 
  meeting thanks a lot.
Nis Jespersen :  Thank you bye-bye.

Received on Tuesday, 11 July 2023 18:58:48 UTC