Re: 4-Corner Credential Interoperability Model

On 2023-02-05 8:14, steve capell wrote:
> 
> Anders,
> 
> Good point about digital document complexity monsters.  I've never understood why UBL / CEFACT / ISO etc feel the need to develop these huge data models of things like a commercial invoice - that has all properties that any use case could ever want.  It's based on the premise that, if you are going digital then you should digitise everything.  I think that's a mistake that adds huge cost and presents a barrier to scalability.  The real question is not what *_can_* be digitised but rather what *_must_* be digitised for me as a buyer to integrate the invoice into my ERP.  usually that's just seller ID and invoice lines containing productID, quantity, unit price, total.  

+100

> All the rest can stay in an attached PDF in case a human wants to read it.

Presumably expressed as a CBOR bstr :)

Anders



> 
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 at 16:11, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On 2023-02-05 5:31, Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) wrote:
>      > 80% of it.  I’ll have a full demo at IIW.  There’s actually a small flaw in the “version 0.65” diagram in my previous post because it is difficult to actually transform and re-sign the credential on the right side as well as re-auth-encrypt the DIDComm credential exchange message with the re-signed credential.  “Necessity being the mother of invention” led to the creation of the concept of DIDComm Agent logical composition: If you have N DIDComm Agents connected serially from a message transfer perspective, this scenario can be recoded as a single physical DIDComm Agent with N inbound service endpoints.  Using DIDComm Agent logical composition, the equivalent working version 0.66 solution looks like this
> 
>     Since I agree with what Steve Capell wrote about message integrity etc., I'm curious about how the revised solution copes with this.
> 
>     AFAICT, end-2-end security requires the communicating parties agreeing on everything from formats to cryptographic algorithms and trust anchors.  This only works satisfactory for closed-loop systems which is why I began toying with public discovery services.  I have had this running (albeit only in lab-scale...) since 2015.
>     https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andersrundgren_many-payment-authorization-systems-build-activity-7002012686137835520-p-2X <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andersrundgren_many-payment-authorization-systems-build-activity-7002012686137835520-p-2X>
>     Since discovery service information can be cached, the overhead is quite limited.  Yes, cache refreshes of course add some minor delays every now and then.
> 
>     IMNSHO, the ISO 20022 folks are on the wrong track; extremely complex messages (with tons of "nice to have" options subject to interpretation), is primarily an asset for consultants :)
> 
>     Anders
> 
> 
>      >
>      > *From:* Wayne Chang wayne@spruceid.com <mailto:wayne@spruceid.com> <mailto:wayne@spruceid.com <mailto:wayne@spruceid.com>>
>      > *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 10:08 PM
>      > *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>>
>      > *Cc:* Christopher Allen <ChristopherA@lifewithalacrity.com <mailto:ChristopherA@lifewithalacrity.com>>; G. Ken Holman (g.ken.holman@gmail.com <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com>) <g.ken.holman@gmail.com <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com>>; Steve Capell <steve.capell@gmail.com <mailto:steve.capell@gmail.com>>; public-credentials (public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>) <public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>; sam@prosapien.com <mailto:sam@prosapien.com>
>      > *Subject:* Re: 4-Corner Credential Interoperability Model
>      >
>      > Cool, do you have any code to run this?
>      >
>      > On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 19:38 Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net> <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     If you use some DIDComm imagination, it's easy to see how the 4-Corner Credential Interoperability Model is highly complementary to supporting a layered VC model ...here's a glimpse.  "More news at 11..."
>      >
>      >     -----Original Message-----
>      >     From: Steve Capell <steve.capell@gmail.com <mailto:steve.capell@gmail.com> <mailto:steve.capell@gmail.com <mailto:steve.capell@gmail.com>>>
>      >     Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 4:24 PM
>      >     To: Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net> <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>>>
>      >     Cc: public-credentials (public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org> <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>) <public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org> <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org <mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>>; G. Ken Holman (g.ken.holman@gmail.com <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com> <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com>>) <g.ken.holman@gmail.com <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com> <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com <mailto:g.ken.holman@gmail.com>>>; Christopher Allen <ChristopherA@lifewithalacrity.com <mailto:ChristopherA@lifewithalacrity.com> <mailto:ChristopherA@lifewithalacrity.com <mailto:ChristopherA@lifewithalacrity.com>>>; sam@prosapien.com <mailto:sam@prosapien.com> <mailto:sam@prosapien.com <mailto:sam@prosapien.com>>
>      >     Subject: Re: 4-Corner Credential Interoperability Model
>      >
>      >     I think the 4-corner model is the opposite of the VC model.  It’s a EDI message routing framework that delegates the problem of trust (ie trader identity verification) to EDI hubs.  Hubs perform a “service” to their authenticated subscribers to map messages to the format they need - so forget about document integrity (how do you maintain a signature when the document is transformed at two hubs?).  There’s nothing verifiable about the message that eventually lands with the receiver (through 2 hubs).  Instead the parties have to trust that the hubs have properly identified their clients and have not lost anything in translation
>      >
>      >     It’s also expensive (every message attracts  two clip-fees).  I’ve never seen this model achieve any significant uptake except in cases where it is mandated by a national regulator
>      >
>      >     Kind regards
>      >
>      >     Steven Capell
>      >
>      >     Mob: 0410 437854
>      >
>      >      > On 4 Feb 2023, at 10:49 pm, Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net> <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net <mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >      >
>      >
>      >      > A colleague of mine, Ken Holman from Ottawa, recently produced a conference paper on the topic of the 4-Corner Credential Interoperability Model. It's originated in the OASIS Universal Business Language (OASIS-UBL) community where they were experiencing problems with spec compliance, interoperability, and low/slow technology adoption rates. UBL is a set of 90+ schemas defined for the most commonly used business documents used in commerce today.
>      >
>      >      >
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>      >      > The 4-Corner Credential Interoperability Model is a simple, efficient, low-cost approach to enable different communities or trading associations to easily interoperate through the exchange of different types of credentials. For example, this would be a stepping stone for enabling a layered approach to how verifiable credentials are defined, used, and exchanged - an opportunity to move away from a "one-size fits all" niche VCDM specification to a layered model that addresses the dual needs of:
>      >
>      >      > a) the layering of simple, more generic models through to more complex
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>      >      > niche credential specifications,  as well as
>      >
>      >      > b) an interoperability model that is simple, secure, efficient, and low-cost.
>      >
>      >      >
>      >
>      >      > Live Presentation: Case study of a semantic library underpinning the
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>      >      > 4-corner model for document exchange 2022-11-08
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>      >      >
>      >
>      >      > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gkholman_ken-holman-case-study-of-a-sem <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gkholman_ken-holman-case-study-of-a-sem> <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gkholman_ken-holman-case-study-of-a-sem <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gkholman_ken-holman-case-study-of-a-sem>>
>      >
>      >      > antic-library-activity-7001714323223977985-IKbA
>      >
>      >      >
>      >
>      >      > Case study of a semantic library underpinning the four-corner model
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>      >      > for document exchange
>      >
>      >      > https://doi.org/10.1075/da.2022.holman.four-corner-model <https://doi.org/10.1075/da.2022.holman.four-corner-model> <https://doi.org/10.1075/da.2022.holman.four-corner-model <https://doi.org/10.1075/da.2022.holman.four-corner-model>>
>      >
>      >      > Proceedings of Declarative Amsterdam 2022 (7 and 8 November 2022)
>      >
>      >      > Available under the CC BY 4.0 license.
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>      >      > Best regards,
>      >
>      >      >
>      >
>      >      > Michael Herman
>      >
>      >      >
>      >
>      >      > Web 7.0
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>      >      > <winmail.dat>
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Capell
>

Received on Sunday, 5 February 2023 07:17:42 UTC