- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 09:31:58 +0000
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
The transcript for the call is now available here:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-20-03-vc-education/
Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
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education\ Transcript for NaN-NaN-NaN
Agenda:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2023Mar/0005.html\
Topics:
1. IP Note\
2. Call Notes\
3. Introductions & Reintroductions\
4. Announcements & Reminders\
5. Main Topic - LearnCard Alpha Leak with Learning Economy
Foundation\
Organizer:
Scribe:
Our Robot Overlords
Present:
Simone Ravaoli, Dave Montorio - WeSchool, David Baumgartner
@smartEduWallet, Kaliya Young, Xander/ASU Pocket, Phil Barker,
Susan Stroud, Kerri Lemoie, Taylor (LEF), Phil L (P1), Marianna
Milkis, Tim Gunther, Eric Shepherd, Nis Jespersen , Chandi
Cumaranatunge, David Mason, Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Marty
Reed, Deb Everhart, xander - ASU/Pocket, Cherie Duncan, Dmitri
Zagidulin, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com),
Jim Kelly, James Chartrand, Mahesh Balan - pocketcred.com, PL/T3
ASU, Xander/ASU, Geun-Hyung, John Kuo, Allyson Parco, Jake, Jeff
O - HumanOS, Roger
<simone_ravaioli> Hey all, giving us a few mins for people to
transition into this call.\
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Topic: IP Note\
Topic: Call Notes\
<colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> gm gm all\
Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions\
<kerri_lemoie> Welcome @Dave!\
Dave_Montorio_-_WeSchool: Yeah nice to meet you everyone I'm Dave
Mario I'm an engineering leader in high school and we School
we're exploring some development of some feature on the Republic
learn Social Web free blockchain and identity so I'm very happy
to join your your meeting today.\
Topic: Announcements & Reminders\
<kerri_lemoie> Go UNC Lady Tarheels!\
Topic: Main Topic - LearnCard Alpha Leak with Learning Economy Foundation\
Cherie Duncan: I think Cox here with Learning Academy Foundation
so thanks for letting us present today about learning card I am
going to see my screen okay.\
<kaliya> Weird I am calling jn via tbe app and j cant hear any
ome talk\
<kaliya> But j can hear noises from JItsi\
Cherie Duncan: Okay perfect great so I'll just hop in a little
bit and I'll try and kind of fly through it to leave room for
questions and kind of discussion because I think you know for a
lot of us are made you finding learn card in a way that's the
little for the broader Community right so yeah I'll I'll get
started.\
<kerri_lemoie> @kaliya - weird jitsi app issue?\
Cherie Duncan: In a ruthless and I think a lot of you understand
what learning is right but I like to ask this question because it
helped rain kind of why things like verify credentials are useful
and so you know sort of a leading question was earning I found a
definition that.\
<simone_ravaioli> anyone else calling in from the Jisti App ?\
Cherie Duncan: Broad it's a process that leads to change as a
result of experience and so as a result you're learning
experiences then become a vital part of your personal and
professional reputation and so consequently where does learn
happen effectively anywhere from conferences to books to
playgrounds to video games too you know working calls like this
one and.\
Cherie Duncan: How do we capture.\
Cherie Duncan: Apis and this is I think where let me come you
foundation and card is really trying to solve a lot of the
problems that exist in the current you know education and
credentialing systems with our you know if you if you look at
this diagram for a lot of folks L2 and L1 mean things but you
know we like to.\
Cherie Duncan: To think of this L ER.\
Cherie Duncan: His been three layers layer 0 is the the
standards like the seats and More in layer 1 is those core
utilities like wallet what's lady who ends up being the impact
and so we like to work on layer 0 and layer one because you know
those are how we ensure energy and you know transferability
between.\
Cherie Duncan: Institutions for learners.\
Cherie Duncan: I'm in we allow for Learners or for instance are
actually providing credentialing to focus on the impact like
providing learning and job opportunities and applications built
on top of digital wallets.\
Cherie Duncan: That's why we have learned card which I'm I know
many of you have had the opportunity to check it out and hear
about learn card and today Beyond just the you know the digital
wallet portions we have some new features that we are launching
very very soon that are part of the free open-source toolkit that
learn card provides.\
Cherie Duncan: It's so for folks who don't.\
Cherie Duncan: Know what Lan card is learn card is a digital
wallet that is free open source and it's both an application on
the App Store and in a web app and an open source SDK for issuing
learning storing and sharing verifiable credentials so learn card
itself this is kind of what the app looks like everything within
learn card is.\
Cherie Duncan: Part of.\
Cherie Duncan: SDK so all of these UI elements you see here are
your you can redeploy them on your own version of learn card yeah
we've got it on the App Store and what not and yeah I'm gonna hop
in actually really quick into sort of actual deployments of learn
card and then break down a bit of the technical back-end to you
know talk a little bit about how we've designed it and our.\
Cherie Duncan: Plug-in based.\
<kaliya> I give up. Cant hear anyone.\
Cherie Duncan: I'm first just some deployment of learn card so
met adversity is a partnership with or it's a platform for D
institutionalizing learner data and allowing Learners to carry
their student ID their course catalog and earn skills wherever
they go throughout their post-secondary learning experiences and
throughout the metaphors.\
Cherie Duncan: City app learners.\
<simone_ravaioli> so sorry Kaliya !\
Cherie Duncan: Explore courses map their learning Journeys
through met adversity while working these sort of in-demand
skills from local employers so we're working with motlow State
community colleges in Tennessee with their mechatronics and
distillers programs to issue you know verifiable credentials for
Learners who complete Community College courses in those relevant
with those relevant skills and then they can go directly to
employers with those skills in.\
Cherie Duncan: Digital wallet.\
<pl/t3_asu> Had that problem too Simone (no audio) had to switch
browsers.\
Cherie Duncan: And so yeah met adversity is one example of how
we're deploying learn card so the the verifiable credential or
everything is powered by verifiable credentials and it's built on
top of this learner wallet.\
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Kaliya - yeah, try switching browsers (and
don't use the mobile app)\
Cherie Duncan: The other application is called super skills it's
a partnership with the Lego foundation and it takes real world
play activities like designing a paper playing and making
modifications to it and these activities are derived designed
around holistic skills like creativity and social and emotional
skills physical skills cognitive skills and then the Learners
themselves capture metadata about their activities taking
pictures and answering questions and.\
Cherie Duncan: As a result.\
<simone_ravaioli> is anyone else having the audio problem that
Kalya and Phil had ?\
Cherie Duncan: Verifiable credentials to them with those
holistic skills so the the Young Learners can choose their own
characters you know they can there's kind of a fun superhero
story that the the Learners go through they play the activities
and they build Creations to help you know the other girls in the
realm and yeah at the end they're issued verifiable credentials
with you know the associated holistic skills.\
Cherie Duncan: That they developed.\
Cherie Duncan: Variants so we're really excited about this
because we did you know partnership with Legal Foundation and an
organization called BrainPOP and actually you know have a
research paper and have actually proven the model of super scales
for Creative subscale development which is I think pretty
exciting obviously you know we need to replicate and expand
Beyond The Core group of.\
Cherie Duncan: Where he's at.\
Cherie Duncan: But it's a really good start to providing Young
Learners with sort of self Sovereign you know portable
credentials capturing the experiences so let's see yeah dids and
how we're using him this is I think really the some of the
coolest stuff that we're doing card and what makes I think this.\
Cherie Duncan: A really useful.\
Cherie Duncan: For anyone who wants to you know deploy a
verifiable credential wallet so we do a plug-in based
architecture here everything from Storage to you know
microservices to you know your did methods everything is plug-in
based so we use ipfs via ceramic to Pink encrypted credentials to
ipfs.\
Cherie Duncan: Yes but.\
Cherie Duncan: It's actually storage and blockchain agnostic so
for example we're talking about doing a deployment in some school
systems and they want to have control of the learner data or like
like a custody of the learner data and so they would prefer to do
it on a Microsoft Azure server and that's totally possible but
anything on chain off chain device storage Google Drive
decentralized webnode whatever can be a.\
<taylor_(lef)> SuperSkills research report -
https://www.dropbox.com/s/exhekb6lk3jwn5e/SuperSkills%20BETA%20research%20report.pdf?dl=0\
Cherie Duncan: You know mechanism we use did kit for as a
plug-in and it's our preferred way to leverage dids and VC's but
again it's not the only way to do it and so you know all of these
one of the reasons we leverage did kit and ipfs in particular is
that you know if we use these plugins learn card ends up becoming
perp.\
Cherie Duncan: Fully non-custodial.\
Cherie Duncan: So when you know in a sort of default deployment
of learned your private key pair is generated on demand and use
you know familiar web to on-ramps Allah web 3 auth to use like
you know your Gmail or your Discord account or phone number to
access your.\
Cherie Duncan: But the private key never actually and so
generating this your dad from private Keys decrypting your
credentials everything all happens directly from your user device
and we spent a lot of effort to make that happen because we
believe that being non-custodial and you know allowing Learners
to be self Sovereign and have control over their data and who
sees it is really important so new features.\
Cherie Duncan: In this is all part of the open-source toolkit so
anyone who wants to deploy anything like this is totally free to
do so and so we'll just keep you updated as you know these
features roll out in the next oh gosh probably week or so but our
network is a set of completely did authenticated features for
peer-to-peer credential issuance so you see here we've got social
badges.\
Cherie Duncan: And various different types of credentials
within the learner.\
<simone_ravaioli> www.learncard.com\
Cherie Duncan: This is all powered by a set of features called
boost boost is kind of the way that you are able to issue
credentials within learn card app to peers or even you know to
for self attestation to yourself or to students so imagine a
teacher the contact list of their 30 or so students and batch
issuing attendance credential or your activity completion.\
Cherie Duncan: Has to Learners using something like boost.\
Cherie Duncan: You can boost things like social badges
achievements courses jobs IDs all into boost and so long as it
has a digital wallet with a did you can issue a VC into them and
yeah learn Cartoon Network is not just a set of features for
peer-to-peer you know did too did credential issuance but it can
actually support did based entities and applications to.\
Cherie Duncan: Oh bi-directionally share credentials.\
Cherie Duncan: Like smart resume we have.\
Cherie Duncan: With we're smart resume can read critically.\
Cherie Duncan: Your learn card and you know.\
Cherie Duncan: As me and likewise learn card can read smart
resume and create credentials within your line card and so we are
hoping to really you know open up this app sort of marketplace
because or I guess ecosystem is a better better tool because it's
you know you don't have to pay anything for it but the
applications you know we really.\
Cherie Duncan: To expand because as long as.\
Cherie Duncan: Um you know a place to store your VCS learn card
can issue to them right so we don't necessarily care who you are
or what application you're using as long as you can resolve a VC
then you can take advantage of getting credentials from learn
card or you know reading your credentials from learn card or any
of these various applications exist in our application
Marketplace so yeah that is my.\
Cherie Duncan: My you know super quick run-through.\
<pl/t3_asu> Is the exchange of credentials mediated by VPs?\
Cherie Duncan: And learn card in a bunch of the new features I'm
going to exit out really quick and stop sharing my screen does
anyone have any questions Simona I don't know how much time I
have so I don't want to take up too much or not enough so.\
PL/T3_ASU: I'll give it a try do you hear me yeah excellent so
thank you Duncan I just asked in the chat this if the exchange of
credentials is mediated by verifiable presentations or or what
are the methods by which you do that.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah so we actually have a set of tools for.\
Cherie Duncan: Bring a verifiable position and it's like a in
locked verifiable presentation where you could you know create
one with a subset of your credentials and then share it with
potential employer and or whoever you'd like are you talking for
example between like did based entities or between like for
employee or.\
PL/T3_ASU: I'm actually it's an open question at the question
there's two parts to it I guess one is the protocol that you're
using for doing that it appears is that you're using VC API but
and not did come or or or or others and the second was the
potential endpoints both receiving from an issuer as well as.\
PL/T3_ASU: sending to a third party.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah the the so we actually support a bunch of
Standards so CCAP I did come V2 a bunch of have a huge list here
but so it's yeah we've got it we've got it configured so you know
you can kind of choose your method but I am sorry what was the
second part.\
Cherie Duncan: Of your question.\
PL/T3_ASU: Well just to finish up that first part when I download
the app from the App Store what is it expecting to use or what by
default what is it using.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah it's using this API.\
PL/T3_ASU: Okay okay that's just that that's one thing and the
other question I was asking about was just the different
protocols that you've implemented and if you want to use those I
assume you're going to have to do some some editing of the actual
application.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah so the if you want to use them in your own
deployment we have fairly easy CLI that you can use to kind of
fiddle around with those settings so.\
PL/T3_ASU: Okay thank you.\
Kerri Lemoie: All right thanks.\
Kerri Lemoie: One thing I you brought up is important is the
concept of non-custodial versus custodial wallets and I think
some folks on this call may not have an understanding of what
that means and also what the implications are for that so I was
wondering if you wouldn't mind doing like a quick little contrast
and comparison for us with that in mind.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah yeah no absolutely thank you thank you for
asking you this is I think my favorite thing about my card so you
know.\
Cherie Duncan: We've designed.\
Cherie Duncan: Card in such a way that.\
<pl/t3_asu> another question: is self-issuing supported?\
<simone_ravaioli> This is the Technical Deck of Learning Economy
Protocol -
https://www.dropbox.com/s/btri08xlx7ppsyp/Learning%20Economy%20Technical%20Frameworks%20%28P%29.pdf?dl=0\
Cherie Duncan: Every every way or every stop along the way a
learner is entirely in control of their own data their own
identity information everything and learn card doesn't act as any
sort of centrally to her Central Authority in managing any
personal or private data and we achieve this in a number of ways
so first off our sign on mechanism we use a set of tools called
Web 3 off.\
Cherie Duncan: With is a.\
Cherie Duncan: Key management or set of key engagement tools
that any privacy-preserving way allows you to use existing
identity anchors like email cell phone this court account Etc any
any single sign-on system whatever it's in totally configurable
to sign into web relocations and so what this means is that you
know no one organization is necessarily getting access to either
private key.\
Cherie Duncan: He's or identity.\
Cherie Duncan: For people who are signing in using web 3i so
that's that's the first component right is we're not really
capturing signing info the second component is the the credential
storage itself right so we use by default credentials live on
your device in your digital wallet they are backed up using ipfs
and ceramic and for those who were not familiar ipfs in Saran
short ipfs is like you know.\
Cherie Duncan: Sort of sort of like BitTorrent web.\
<simone_ravaioli> IPFS is decentralised storage\
Kerri Lemoie: https://docs.ipfs.tech/concepts/what-is-ipfs/\
Cherie Duncan: Where it breaks up data into a bunch of little
pieces and stores them on hosts or the internet and then you can
Retreat bit by bit and you know kind of reconstruct the
information that's been stored there but you know I think for a
lot of stuff on ipfs it's just publicly available and viewable
but we do in crypt the Critter on ipfs using the wallet holders.\
Cherie Duncan: Private key and.\
<simone_ravaioli> About Ceramic- https://ceramic.network/\
Cherie Duncan: Only way to decrypt and view the credential that
start on ipfs is with the people as long as you don't share your
private key with anybody you are the only person who can view
that credential let's start on ipfs what this means right is that
as long as you have an internet connection in some way to access
your private key so any one of your various identity that use
with web free web three off you can actually restore your learn
car in all of.\
Cherie Duncan: Of your credentials\ to your learn card wallet
so imagine.\
Kerri Lemoie: https://blog.ceramic.network/what-is-ceramic/\
Cherie Duncan: You know goes across borders and listening to
their devices because of economic turmoil or civil unrest right
as long as they have access to their Gmail account right or
whatever account they had right back in there there how they
could restore all of their credentials just like they were before
and they would be the only person who could do so and so again we
don't read any of the data that happens in a learner wallet in
order to share the data you need to give permission to entities.\
Cherie Duncan: That are wanting.\
Cherie Duncan: Accent and so.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah at the right this non-custodial the opposite
would.\
Cherie Duncan: We be you know a single issuing authority would
handle all the sign in so they didn't signing into a Google
account and then Google was like oh yeah you know inside in and
here's all of his credentials I can view and my you know
utilities control who he shares it with and how he shares it and
I view all of his sharing just like traditional web two ways of
handling things where you know we're not really in control of who
views are data and how they.\
Cherie Duncan: How they use it so.\
Cherie Duncan: Does that does that work carry.\
Kerri Lemoie: Oh yeah thank you next second I'm sure other
people might have some follow-up questions in the chat probably
of testimony.\
Cherie Duncan: Yes yeah so we have a whole set of tools for kind
of satisfaction of credentials and yeah you can you can issue any
of the existing credentials yourself and what we're hoping to do
right is provide some tools and features to help make that you
know kind of legitimize that experience and you know with our
various Integrations with different applications that can issue
be seized.\
Cherie Duncan: He's we hope to you know.\
Cherie Duncan: Get more meaningful to issue credentials to
yourself that makes sense because you know right now it's just
like a resume or whatever where they have to trust with all the
info you put in there so.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Thanks yeah well thank you so much by the way
for this presentation this is wonderful I want to ask if learn
card had any roadmap intentions to offer storage aside for my BFS
because right like even with encryption through ceramic it's
still being stored on on other people's computers essentially
it's on the pub and as we all know.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Encryption has Half-Life and so.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Had alternatives to that and same question for
the web three off so the moment I can't use the wallet without
creating web three off account and I was wondering if you had any
road map options to provide alternatives to that thanks.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah so in our kind of default app available on
the App Store in the web I don't know if we have any plans to
change from those I think we're you know we're fairly new as a
Canseco have them you know we'll stick with.\
Cherie Duncan: Three often in sir.\
Cherie Duncan: But in terms of the open source SDK and toolkit
you can use anything for storage right and so you know as we
develop those different plugins or as the community to plugins
this is the thing right is that you know as a community we would
love for folks to develop that use utilities that you find useful
right to interact with this ecosystem or to partner with other
folks who.\
Cherie Duncan: It provides you know did based tools to you know
integrate with their their products or.\
Cherie Duncan: Services but um anyway all that to say is that
it's not.\
Cherie Duncan: Totally unheard of that we might you know provide
alternatives to the sign on methods because I definitely do here
you encryption does have a half half life and we have to stay on
top of it if we're going to make sure that you know privacy is
actually preserved so.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah that's a good question so we are working on
it tirelessly to make sure we get it right it was you know
scheduled to come out a couple weeks ago but we you know I think
we're word letting it percolate for a little bit so we can get it
right but it should be coming out any moment now you know we've
been chomping at the bit for.\
Cherie Duncan: It's o.\
Cherie Duncan: And actually let me let me share learn card
GitHub repo because that might be relevant to people.\
Cherie Duncan: https://github.com/learningeconomy/LearnCard\
<taylor_(lef)> Boost will definitely be available prior to
ASU-GSV.\
PL/T3_ASU: Well I mean the short answer is I think it's
absolutely essential because without it those people that don't
have issued credentials from some into third party entity can't
express themselves in the same currency and language that that
credentials are being sent all understand it's understood that
their credentials signed by themselves are in.\
PL/T3_ASU: Ready corroboration and clearly there needs to be
mechanisms to do that some of which have been have been already
proposed and written up such as such as using a third-party
credential as a as a recommendation to the one that the person
self issued but without it we leaving out a huge section of
potential Workforce thanks.\
<duncan_cox> @Phil to your question earlier, we also package up
and expose CHAPI to folks who want to use LearnCard to build a
CHAPI compliant application. Love CHAPI!\
<dmitri_zagidulin> heh, what software ever stays lean? :)\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: Oh yeah thanks well I think playing doubles
on the kid is certainly Mighty my role often within the pocket
team so I'm happy to wear the horns today as well you know I
think this is a big Challenge and I think there are other aspects
of you know to learn card solution that are kind of in the same
vein of trust is often assumed when we talk about technological
solutions in this space but that's not a trivial thing so the
more you democratize the ability to issue.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: credentials the harder it is to maintain
Trust.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: Like what stops me from cleverly
impersonating someone building up an online you know kind of
identity that is very similar to a different trusted party it
really opens the door to a lot of abuse so I think the mechanisms
for building trust inside and outside of this technical solution
is underdeveloped relative to the capabilities of the tools and
so I think that's a big challenge you know even something like
what.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: this is a question I was.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: Were incurred as well but I don't want to
split the topic here too much I saw someone maybe wants to
respond some of y'all stop here and let them do that.\
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I hear is enter saying and I agree and I
think part of it is because in a large part of digital literacy
isn't isn't great right people don't really understand how the
web works now and what risks there are and to some extent I don't
know that they will really ever understand why any of this is any
better which is kind of like disheartening to say I mean I'm
somebody who's been working in this space for a.\
Kerri Lemoie: Long time my my PhD is in.\
Kerri Lemoie: And technology and that's what I really think we
need to work towards but to an extent I think we need to get
technologists on board to implement their apps using this
technology more and more so that it just becomes an inherent part
of what the web is and that's where our audience really is I
think for this technology is how do we make it easy to develop
with this technology and put it in place that it's a no-brainer
and it just becomes the backbone of the internet and um it just
works right.\
Kerri Lemoie: And I think that's what we could do as
technologists in the space to help with the trust aspect.\
PL/T3_ASU: Sure I just want to on the one hand plus one would
carry was just saying about the need to be clear about our
definitions and what their implications of what the implications
of them are I still hear people talking about verification as if
there's some sort of Authority or equivalent to Quality Assurance
behind something that's been signed as opposed to Simply.\
PL/T3_ASU: that it's tamper evident and.\
PL/T3_ASU: Have that clear that clarification well understood
across the community but beyond that I mean what it's what it's
simple we need to get past the notion of brand recognition as the
proxy of trust and we already know from the reports that the last
mile DCC report has shown and and worked from Sean Gallagher up
at Northeastern that that there isn't a lot of business
interests.\
PL/T3_ASU: it's in verification.\
PL/T3_ASU: Because they don't see.\
<simone_ravaioli> Last Mile report by MIT DCC -
https://news.mit.edu/2022/last-mile-credentials-employment-1103\
PL/T3_ASU: Distinction between that and brand and since they
don't have brand recognition of an individual a sign credential
from an individual doesn't mean a whole lot to them and in that
sense they're probably right other than it is a signed and
traceable recognition or credential that the identity of the
signer is at least consistent to that particular did but other
than that it's not all that useful.\
PL/T3_ASU: useful what's more.\
PL/T3_ASU: Are useful is implementing the human-oriented trust
mechanisms that we are talking about with respect to trust
Registries and and recommendations and things like that to be
able to move to the next step thanks.\
Cherie Duncan: Well maybe a return back to the you know.\
Cherie Duncan: She'll question about is from a wallet one of the
things that we've had some conversations with about our about in
recently is a sort of emergent situations so not to say that
something like learn card is the only solution or best solution
right but imagine you know in the recent earthquake crisis in
Turkey you have emergent skills that need to be learned today
like I.\
Cherie Duncan: Can enter an IV or I.\
Cherie Duncan: In a play.\
Cherie Duncan: Make it or a can you know do CPR imagine if you
have you know people on the Fly educating people within this
context around these emergent skills that need to be learned
today and then you could show up to disaster situation and say
like hit I actually know how to administer a tourniquet here's my
credential or in a context land really rural schools that don't
have tons of.\
Cherie Duncan: Of you know existing Tech in.\
Cherie Duncan: Structure is long as Learners have devices which
you know a huge percentage of Learners in low and middle income
countries have devices but they might not have computers and
their G i-- teacher could actually create a learning system
around just device for Learners and so again not to say the learn
card is the ideal solution for this but it does empower some sort
of like decentralized learning system.\
Cherie Duncan: Seems that might not be possible.\
Cherie Duncan: This sort of device to an officer while it
credential issuance that comes with its own problems of course
but in a local community right if you're never going to leave
your your little town then a credential from your teacher is
going to do pretty well compared to a piece of paper or no
credential at all right so kind of community issued Community
verified credentials that don't necessarily rely on this Tech
infrastructure but need to be stored in a space this could be
potentially.\
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I hear it documents a lot of Claire and Phil
to you we do we tend to talk about all of this in pretty broad
Strokes right now and we do that because we've been working at
the Sanders level right and you want to think about big wide
implications with standards that you're trying to fit in as much
as you can so it works in many different places and even
different context but it doesn't mean a thing I think is what I
also predict is what's going to happen is we're going to start
doing some very specific.\
Kerri Lemoie: Civic implementations and those are going to work
and they're going to be the examples that are going to be models
for others to follow and then little.\
Kerri Lemoie: Little we're going to we're going to build.\
Kerri Lemoie: On that and I think we're headed into that this
year and next year really like banging out those examples whether
they're like hyper local or just Community or just like one
specific industry right as these start piling on we will start
seeing how they'll be applicable in other ways much like you know
email works and other things like that right you have to start
somewhere and then you build upon it yep specific and then
scale.\
Kerri Lemoie: +1 @Phil - exactly\
Dmitri Zagidulin: +1 Xander, I have the same concerns\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: I think you yes I actually I had a question
going back to the presentation a little bit about ipfs and the
decision to use it and maybe some of the thought process behind
that I know you mentioned encryption having a shelf life I think
we've looked at that solution in her still sort of considering it
but the concerns I'm wondering if Alan Curtis thought about her
what they're kind of thinking process might be room or related to
the permanence you know once you put something on ipfs.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: someone else.\
<kerri_lemoie> What I appreciate about the LearnCard SDK is that
it has contextual applicability planned for.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: To continue to hold on to that content you
can never delete it you can't ever take it down and so if you've
got content on there which is encrypted and then maybe your key
becomes compromised somehow this is I'm just playing out my own
concerns here as an example you know you are you know basically
permanently exposed you can't take that stuff down your keys
exposed they can get everything you ever put on ipfs and you know
I think this is also tied into concerns around like right.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: be forgotten depending.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: Ring there or even FERPA where you're
supposed to kind of give institutions the ability to pull back
student data if they want I know belongs to the learner and maybe
a very literal sense but there's wondering broadly if you
consider these sorts of issues and what you're thinking lesbian.\
<dmitri_zagidulin> the answer is to use user-controlled encrypted
storage! :) (like Encrypted Data Vaults)\
Cherie Duncan: And oh yeah totally the fun thing is we don't
have an answer for that at the moment so I think we're thinking
for it and I know our developers are really cognizant of this
because yes there are definitely drawbacks to this kind of
architecture an ecosystem one thing you know again we really kind
of put an emphasis on this non is no deity in the call.\
Cherie Duncan: So yeah we put it in.\
Cherie Duncan: Said non-custodial T of credentials but it does
come with its drawbacks right it's not totally a foolproof
architecture and so we would love to problem solve with the
community and see ways that we could make it so that your Dimitri
encrypted data V user-controlled encrypted storage that is
amazing right we would love to create an application that allows
folks to do that instead of ipfs or other Solutions.\
Cherie Duncan: So yeah.\
Cherie Duncan: Sir but something to think about for us for
sure.\
Xander_-_ASU/Pocket: Now are you storing each credential
individually encrypted or is it like the whole wallet as a blob
or maybe I don't know maybe it's too detailed but I'm just
curious.\
Cherie Duncan: Yeah each credential is individual in Krypton.\
<pl/t3_asu> @Dmitri that's decentralization to the individual!
And that's the best solution at present!\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Sure I am so.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Spade or what I said in the chat it's by
itself is not sufficient as a solution so encrypted Data Vault is
a w3c ccg incubated spec that essentially.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: A specifies how to do encryption plus
authorization on user controlled storage.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: And so some of the some of the wallets out in
the space right now like some of the stuff that digital bazaars
doing and others use encrypted data V as the storage mechanism as
the back end to store the credentials which means it's not.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: I-it's not out on the public internet it is on
a particular server that the user has addressed relationship with
but it's a due to the encryption it is a sort of greatly narrow
trust relationship and that combination is able to provide a
right to be forgotten.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Having said that.\
<simone_ravaioli> Is this the most updated repo @Dmitry
?https://github.com/decentralized-identity/edv-spec\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Has a wallet implementer DC myself I fully
understand the the tricky dilemma of okay so we have the spec
who's going to run the servers right and there that that's a
Community Wide discussion my personal hope is that the school's
themselves or whatever organizations our Consortium will be
operating the private encrypted servers for the learners.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: All right.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: We can get it to the point where storage is
like email right we've long sort of stopped wandering or at least
worrying about too much I who's gonna provide the email it's
standardized enough an inexpensive enough that it comes free in
your breakfast cereal meaning there's there's Gmail's on the
web-based emails but also your school provides that essentially
for free your internet service provider provides email and so on
encrypted storage can be just like that.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: So but of course that's the future it
doesn't.\
Dmitri Zagidulin: Now until a school or a Consortium steps
forward and says okay in addition to providing the wallet we will
run the storage servers the encrypted data of all type of stuff
so that's sort of a too long answer to your question thanks.\
Taylor_(LEF): Thanks this can be quick but I just wanted to sort
of lay some broader context and clarify that LEF really is sort
of a you know single Steward of some of this technology and as a
non-profit we are supporting the broader ecosystem its probe
obviously coming on and doing this sort of work but know that LEF
is not learn card our hope is really that it can be you know a
set of sort of plug-in based applications that anyone can kind of
for can use.\
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Simone - yep[, that's the spec!\
Kerri Lemoie: +1 @Taylor & LEF team\
Taylor_(LEF): As much as others are learning from us so just
wanted to point that out I think it's in some ways away we're
trying to distinguish ourselves and just the broader work from I
guess some of the more you know Central singular product-based
Implement implementations of some of the stuff so please take
ownership of learn card as much or as little as seems appropriate
but.\
Taylor_(LEF): laf is.\
Taylor_(LEF): Learn card we are definitely excited about it and
want it to be useful and in this community and others but it is
open source for for reason so just wanted to clarify that if it
wasn't already.\
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks for join us today, @duncan & LEF!\
<pl/t3_asu> Thanks Duncan and the LEF team!\
<kerri_lemoie> Have a great week all!\
<duncan_cox> of course! Please reach out if you have qs.\
<taylor_(lef)> Thanks all \uc0\u55357 \u56911 \
<dave_montorio_-_weschool> thank you! bye\
Received on Friday, 14 April 2023 09:31:58 UTC