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Re: C2PA Specifications - First Public Draft

From: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 13:52:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CANYRo8gZD3FSBK9UPMskQ2ap9ewJWXjbhS=V1gL9FYtYK6Euhg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Jim St.Clair" <jim.stclair@lumedic.io>
Cc: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>, "public-credentials (public-credentials@w3.org)" <public-credentials@w3.org>
"Paramount"? Where's the line between tech progress and tech slavery? As
Zuboff says: "Who decides? Who decides who decides?"

- Adrian

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 1:45 PM Jim St.Clair <jim.stclair@lumedic.io> wrote:

> “Bottom line, any digital content scheme that makes surveillance more
> efficient will be abused by the powerful under the current or foreseeable
> conditions.”
>
>
>
> Nevertheless, provenance over digital media, whether a photo of my dog or
> a CAT scan, is paramount.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim
>
> *_______________*
>
>
>
> *Jim St.Clair *
>
> Chief Trust Officer
>
> jim.stclair@lumedic.io | 228-273-4893
>
> *Let’s meet to discuss patient identity exchange*:
> https://calendly.com/jim-stclair-1
>
>
>
> *From:* Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 2, 2021 12:25 PM
> *To:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Cc:* Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>; public-credentials (
> public-credentials@w3.org) <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: C2PA Specifications - First Public Draft
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Leonard,
>
>
>
> I don't think it's as simple as you imply. The decision to post a photo
> anonymously or pseudonymously is almost never mine alone. There are
> platform constraints, self-censorship, and the inability to predict future
> concerns as current (lack) of privacy regulations together with near-zero
> network, storage, and processing costs encourage an unlimited and growing
> number of data brokers and aggregators.
>
>
>
> Bottom line, any digital content scheme that makes surveillance more
> efficient will be abused by the powerful under the current or foreseeable
> conditions. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-crime
>
>
>
> - Adrian
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:49 PM Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> wrote:
>
> Adrian – great question!
>
>
>
> If you take a photo that you wish to share with friends on Facebook, then
> you are making a statement that you want that image associated with you
> including being known as the author/photographer of that image…so as other
> reshare it, the fact that you took the photo is not lost.  Of course, you
> could just as reasonably choose to not put any information about yourself
> in the image and post it anonymously to some other network – and that would
> be fine too.  The choice is always yours about how much (or how little) of
> your information you choose to share!
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 12:35 PM
> *To: *Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>
> *Cc: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-credentials (
> public-credentials@w3.org) <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: C2PA Specifications - First Public Draft
>
> DIDs and VCs are burdened by their "self-sovereign" aspirations. "Content"
> may be able to avoid many privacy concerns to the extent it's not linked to
> people. It would be interesting to understand the principal use-cases and
> how C2PA avoids indirect linkage of Content to people.
>
>
>
> - Adrian
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:15 PM Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>
> wrote:
>
> On 2021-09-01 6:08 am, Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
>
> I’ve been mentioning the work of the Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity (C2PA) for a while now, including our usage of W3C Verifiable Credentials.  I am excited to announce that the first public draft of our specification is available for review and comment.  I would welcome the input from this community on how we have chosen to integrate VC’s into our system.
>
> [snip]...
>
> The draft specification can be accessed through the C2PA website<https://c2pa.org/public-draft/> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc2pa.org%2Fpublic-draft%2F&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Ca1d52823776545daba2408d96e2f93cf%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637661973040675165%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=QRbyvB3Mlmt30flKpUVUi8HoYu0zxWBebvQJjI%2FN%2F%2Fo%3D&reserved=0>, and comments will be accepted through a web submission form<https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSevOsvZKHIc_4Dljk7IkoW37mcuItUEV3I6hoUZhR2suxRVPg/viewform> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fforms%2Fd%2Fe%2F1FAIpQLSevOsvZKHIc_4Dljk7IkoW37mcuItUEV3I6hoUZhR2suxRVPg%2Fviewform&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Ca1d52823776545daba2408d96e2f93cf%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637661973040675165%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=CWi4Tj8ZCd9D1Plh5kvXQKtacbg2X9mYCKJXOd1yzd0%3D&reserved=0> and GitHub<https://github.com/c2pa-org/public-draft> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fc2pa-org%2Fpublic-draft&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Ca1d52823776545daba2408d96e2f93cf%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637661973040685120%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bSPLLvjmX2SJsJhGNchtVy%2BErykjO7JJJAXzHw05Pyg%3D&reserved=0> until November 30, 2021.
>
> Leonard,
>
> C2PA seems like a very interesting and ambitious project. But after
> scanning through, my take is that it recreates something like DID
> Documents. In other words that it's a parallel project that performs the
> same function, not an extension into new function. Am I off base here, or
> is this true, in your opinion?
>
> I note that you only use DIDs a single time, in section 7.1, the
> Verifiable Credential example. And then right away you specifically note
> about this that DIDs are not necessary for VCs:
>
> "Although the example above and many examples in the W3C Verifiable
> Credentials data model specification use Decentralized Identifiers (DIDs)
> as the value of the id field, DIDs are not necessary for W3C Verifiable
> Credentials to be useful. Specifically, W3C Verifiable Credentials do not
> depend on DIDs and DIDs do not depend on W3C Verifiable Credentials.
> DID-based URLs are just one way to express identifiers associated with
> subjects, issuers, holders, credential status lists, cryptographic keys,
> and other machine-readable information associated with a W3C Verifiable
> Credential."
>
> And that's the only place in this whole, very large, specification, that
> DIDs appear. And VCs themselves, you indicate, are a tolerated add-on, but
> not necessary either for your system (as far as I can determine).
>
> So:
>
> On a continuum of possibility, I'll ask whether you think the C2PA project
> is *closer* to aiming for...
>
> 1. Integrating with DID based provenance systems, so that there can be
> interoperability with DID published data (and formal DID Documents).
>
> or
>
> 2. Creating a document provenance system that has no need for DIDs, so
> that DIDs will be unnecessary and die out, and the functions they're aiming
> for replaced by the C2PA system?
>
>
>
> Steven Rowat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> C2PA is accepting new members. To join, visit https://c2pa.org/membership/ <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc2pa.org%2Fmembership%2F&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Ca1d52823776545daba2408d96e2f93cf%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637661973040685120%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LvrYpXeh%2FYBwxTVx3kuMh2KP%2FzGA%2By6kO8%2Fl%2F5E%2BNfw%3D&reserved=0>.
>
>
>
> About C2PA
>
> The Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity (C2PA) is an open, technical standards body addressing the prevalence of misleading information online through the development of technical standards for certifying the source and history (or provenance) of media content. C2PA is a Joint Development Foundation project, formed through an alliance between Adobe, Arm, BBC, Intel, Microsoft and Truepic. For more information, visit c2pa.org <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fc2pa.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Ca1d52823776545daba2408d96e2f93cf%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637661973040685120%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2FFWSCFmItL%2Fb09Cb8jOGVxI4T%2BZyxlqMDrQTIKQiB9I%3D&reserved=0>.
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Received on Thursday, 2 September 2021 17:53:09 UTC

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