Re: VC-if-eye a plain old .JPG file [was: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories]

FYI

We are doing a pilot project at the end of the month where we are deploying
our credential issuing tech to issue digital Residency Certificates
(permanent non-revocable) to Graduating Residents.
We will include Schema in a CSV and PDF image upload and will include both
(as necessary)
Attached is a screenshot of our dashboard we plan to use.
We'd appreciate any input or feedback, as I have followed this convo, and
still see no agreement re standards, but we have to move forward... so we
are.
If anyone wants to help with this project re-schema and image standards for
academic medical credentials please reach out, as building a user centric
and interoperable system is important to us.

Best
Leah

*Leah Houston M.D <https://twitter.com/LeahHoustonMD>.*
Chief Executive Officer, HPEC
www.hpec.io
*H*umanitarian *P*hysicians *E*mpowerment *C*ommunity




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On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:01 AM Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <
mwherman@parallelspace.net> wrote:

> Thank you Leonard.
>
>
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* August 9, 2021 8:43 AM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
> public-credentials@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: VC-if-eye a plain old .JPG file [was: Binding credentials
> to publicly accessible repositories]
>
>
>
> Michael – I agree that if we were building a specific implementation that
> could utilize a specific DLT-based approach, then I agree that one might
> design a system like what you suggest.  But as I mentioned, we are building
> an open international standard that needs to support both online and
> offline operations (hence the requirements to support embedding, though it
> is not required) and whose cloud storage usage (when used) could be
> centralized, decentralized or (mostly likely) a combination of both running
> on a variety of systems.
>
>
>
> As I mentioned, my organization (C2PA) is building an open international
> standard for content provenance and attribution utilizing a variety of
> technologies from the W3C (as well as the ISO and ETSI).  When we publish
> our first public draft of this work in the coming weeks, we would welcome
> your (and everyone’s) input on our work, especially how we are utilizing
> VC’s.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Date: *Monday, August 9, 2021 at 9:13 AM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-credentials@w3.org <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *RE: VC-if-eye a plain old .JPG file [was: Binding credentials
> to publicly accessible repositories]
>
> The largest difference that I see in the 2 approaches is that in the
> baboon scenario, the VC is being embedded as an opaque blob and is not
> easily/more difficult to view and/or process.
>
>
>
> Whereas in my horse bridle scenario where the Structured Credential is
> clearly visible and IMO more easily processible (at least on the Trusted
> Digital Web). I can easily affirm that the horse bridge .JPG file *is* an
> actual VC (or at least a clearly decernable container for an actual VC).
>
>
>
> I believe what you’d like to capture is what we call in the seismic data
> processing/well logging industry as the *Processing History* for a media
> file?
>
>
>
> This is an orthogonal concept and easy to handle.  A separate claim can be
> added to the Claims component of the Structured Credential that defines the
> operations and parameters of the immediately preceding workflow step that
> produced the current image.  All of the media inputs to this step by named
> by their DIDs (dutifully recorded on a VDR and immediately retrievable by
> calling upon each media inputs agent service endpoint).  There is (with
> this approach) no need to record and store the entire processing history
> with each image/media asset – only the immediately processing step’s
> actions and parameters.  The previous workflow steps can be recursively
> retrieved by going back to the VDR for each input asset and retrieving the
> asset (and hence, its Structured Credential elements).  This network
> (graph) of interconnection and interrelationships is exactly what underpins
> the Trusted Digital Web.
>
>
>
> Where can we go from here?
>
>
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* August 9, 2021 6:43 AM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
> public-credentials@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: VC-if-eye a plain old .JPG file [was: Binding credentials
> to publicly accessible repositories]
>
>
>
> Michael – Thanks for taking the time to experiment with this.  You are
> (for the most part) where we were two years ago when we first started down
> the path towards architecting the technology behind the Content
> Authenticity Initiative.  Like you, we had hoped to be able to do
> everything with XMP and VC.  I found this old image from our original
> prototype that should feel familiar 😉.
>
>
>
> [image: Timeline Description automatically generated with low confidence]
>
>
>
> While this method works, for the most part, for raster images with a
> single claim/credential – it immediately breaks down in pretty much any
> other workflow.  Whether it is the image going through normal editing &
> publishing flows (e.g. Camera->Photoshop->Twitter) or being used as an
> ingredient in a multi-image combined scenario (e.g., placing one image into
> another).   And when you get to other asset types – video, documents, 3D,
> etc. more and more problems ensue.   Which is why we ended up having to
> moving away from that approach.
>
>
>
> But at the end of the day, we are still using VC’s for what they were
> intended to accomplish (identity and accomplishments) as part of our larger
> attribution system.  You can learn about it at
> https://contentauthenticity.org/how-it-works
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcontentauthenticity.org%2Fhow-it-works&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372848733%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=K2f2YIR3yaxkXmATNzkr28Zeo8Vahf9mivTfCEudx3g%3D&reserved=0>
> and keep an eye on https://c2pa.org
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc2pa.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372848733%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZI5RBLmXVzNRJ35aP%2FLuLyLfvtKRyvktMTAsft1hCKw%3D&reserved=0>
> where we will be making more technical material available shortly.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Date: *Monday, August 9, 2021 at 1:49 AM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-credentials@w3.org <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *VC-if-eye a plain old .JPG file [was: Binding credentials to
> publicly accessible repositories]
>
> RE: There is no mechanism in XMP nor in most standard asset formats for
> establishing a model for tamper evidence, such as Digital Signatures,
> (H)MAC, etc
>
>
>
> Leonard here’s a counterexample.
>
>
>
> I’ve applied to the principles and data model for Structured Credentials (
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFv4WZ0p3aY&list=PLU-rWqHm5p45dzXF2LJZjuNVJrOUR6DaD&index=1
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFFv4WZ0p3aY%26list%3DPLU-rWqHm5p45dzXF2LJZjuNVJrOUR6DaD%26index%3D1&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372858692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZeqXSed3ItGAhFTDjOBkbKYmyNqJuMGKGMHgo49XE%2BY%3D&reserved=0>)
> to VC-if-eye a plain old .JPG file (a photo I took with my Pixel 4a phone).
>
>
>
>    - Test1_original.jpg is the original, unmodified test copy of the photo
>    - Test1_ps1.txt is a script that uses exiftool.exe to add the
>    Structured Credential structures to the original test copy of the photo
>    …including the proof elements stored in the EnvelopeSeal structure.  They
>    are stored as elements in the XMP Keyword Info property of the photo.
>    - Test1_xmp.png is a screen shot of the Structured Credential
>    structures embedded into the XMP Keyword Info properties of the photo.
>
>
>
> We now have a mechanism for a .JPG file (or any XMP compatible media file)
> to serve as both a photo and a Verifiable Credential.  We are now able to
> VC-if-eye any XMP compatible media file.
>
>
>
> Any holes?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Herman
>
> Far Left Self-Sovereignist
>
>
>
> Self-Sovereign Blockchain Architect
>
> Trusted Digital Web
>
> Hyperonomy Digital Identity Lab
>
> Parallelspace Corporation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* August 3, 2021 3:02 PM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
> public-credentials@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
>
>
> There is no mechanism in XMP nor in most standard asset formats for
> establishing a model for tamper evidence, such as Digital Signatures,
> (H)MAC, etc.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM
> *To: *public-credentials@w3.org <public-credentials@w3.org>, Leonard
> Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
> Leonard, how do you define "native tamper-evident system"?
>
> Get Outlook for Android
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2FAAb9ysg&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372868642%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NtjCD%2FY2i8nmS3qIeUd%2BOCJGYscswrndCMOGi07Lmec%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 3, 2021 10:53:47 AM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
> public-credentials@w3.org <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
>
>
> Michael, thanks for the reference to XMP…but you are probably not aware
> that I am the chair of ISO TC 171/SC 2/WG 12 where XMP is standardized *
> *and** the project leader for XMP itself.   (oh, and I am also the XMP
> Architect internally to Adobe 😉 ).
>
>
>
> So yes, leveraging existing open standards such as XMP is indeed a key to
> delivering on the promises mentioned below – but it can’t be the only
> solution due to it being a text-based serialization (thus not lending
> itself well to binary data structures) and not having a native
> tamper-evident system.  Additionally, while it is supported by most common
> asset formats, it is not supported by all.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 10:43 AM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-credentials@w3.org <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
> Checkout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FExtensible_Metadata_Platform&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372868642%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mjnMRpCaW3UDDt5k7arMOda2RQ7ilHo3XqnT6HqRe3M%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> And here's a data model to consider for use in a custom XMP profile:
> https://youtu.be/FFv4WZ0p3aY
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FFFv4WZ0p3aY&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372878599%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2HBjxv88yAecPVbTWbriqHVsECqlMYcMyktWDaBQgqY%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for Android
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2FAAb9ysg&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372888559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xM2ypGIIon3QyVfkAgYcVwbFpLaF10riIs2dHfpHahk%3D&reserved=0>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 30, 2021 1:25:18 PM
> *To:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>; public-credentials@w3.org <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
>
>
> So an alternate strategy to avoid embed an actual VC or otherwise try to
> attach a VC to an asset is to use the metadata capabilities of each of
> these formats to store the credential id, @context, vc type list,
> credentialSubject id, the individual claims (name-value pairs), and the
> proof elements
>
>
>
> …vc-if-eye each format using each format’s native metadata capabilities.
>
>
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* July 30, 2021 1:03 PM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
> public-credentials@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
>
>
> Michael – not sure you understand the scenario here.
>
>
>
> We aren’t building a specific system/solution for our own needs and those
> of our customers – we are developing an open standard that associates
> provenance with existing assets (eg. JPEG, PNG, MP4, PDF, etc.).  Since
> those are the formats that are recognized by systems (and regulatory
> solutions) today, it would make no sense to start wrapping them in some
> other format (be it JSON, XML, or whatever).  JPEG files (for example) need
> to work everywhere they do today – BUT contain tamper-evident provenance.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Date: *Friday, July 30, 2021 at 2:46 PM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-credentials@w3.org <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *RE: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
> It’s a SMOP (small matter of programming).  Once upon a time, browers
> weren’t capable of displaying a lot of different kinds of resources (e.g.
> XML).
>
>
>
> Why not render your VCs as XML?
>
> …or consider using server-side rendering?
>
> …or write an in-browser renderer using WASM?
>
>
>
> *“The difficult we can do, the impossible takes us a little bit longer…” *
> 😊
>
>
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* July 30, 2021 12:35 PM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
> public-credentials@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
>
>
> Given that putting a “.vc” file on a website or in a Twitter feed of
> YouTube channel isn’t going have it properly displayed – that’s not an
> option, unfortunately, Michael.
>
>
>
> Leonard
>
>
>
> *From: *Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Date: *Friday, July 30, 2021 at 1:05 PM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-credentials@w3.org <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject: *RE: Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
> I suggest storing the “original version” of the artwork as a claim within
> a signed credential …the credential wraps the artwork like a container or a
> “frame”.
>
>
>
> I believe this is much better than trying to attach a credential to the
> artwork.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Herman
>
> Far Left Self-Sovereignist
>
>
>
> Self-Sovereign Blockchain Architect
>
> Trusted Digital Web
>
> Hyperonomy Digital Identity Lab
>
> Parallelspace Corporation
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> *Sent:* July 30, 2021 10:31 AM
> *To:* public-credentials@w3.org
> *Subject:* Binding credentials to publicly accessible repositories
>
>
>
> I realize that I might be out on the bleeding edge a bit, though not
> completely as I think it is very similar to what OpenBadges will face as
> they move to VC’s…
>
>
>
> In the Trust Model section of the VC Data Model spec, it states that one
> of aspects of that model is:
>
> The holder trusts the repository to store credentials securely, to not
> release them to anyone other than the holder, and to not corrupt or lose
> them while they are in its care.
>
> This is certainly true when the repository in question is something like a
> wallet that is designed to be kept private or local (not shared).  But what
> happens when the repository is designed to be out in the public… such as an
> image or PDF with the VC embedded?
>
>
>
>
>
> As part of the C2PA’s (https://c2pa.org
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc2pa.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C2a50308b508547ca090408d95b378965%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637641116372888559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=cm14pE4lHoe0MceiFgzwgDmRXmM1yuA%2B0toRD%2BWIKyU%3D&reserved=0>)
> work on establishing provenance for digital assets, we will be using VC’s
> as a way for persons and organizations to establish their relationships to
> the asset.  Specifically in this instance, we’re extending schema.org’s
> Person and Organization schemas, as used by their CreativeWork schema, to
> support referencing a VC.  This then allows the author or publisher (or any
> of the other roles in CW) to provide their credentials in that role, which
> (a) adds useful trust signal(s) to the end consumer and (b) helps establish
> reputation.
>
>
>
> These VC’s (etc.) will be embedded into the assets (e.g., video, images,
> documents, etc.) in a tamper-evident manner, so that in addition to the
> individual VC’s “proof”, any attempt to change the CreativeWork
> relationships, etc. can also be detected.   This all works great.
>
>
>
> However, in doing some threat modelling, we recognized that we have no
> protection against a malicious actor simply copying the VC from one asset
> and dropping it into another (and then signing the new setup), because
> there is nothing that binds the credential to the asset in our case.
>
>
>
> Has anyone run into this scenario before and has some guidance to offer?
> Am I doing something that I shouldn’t be doing – and if so, what does that
> mean for OpenBadges?
>
>
>
> All thoughts and suggestions welcome!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Leonard
>
>
>