Re: Oracles as Issuers

Hi David,

I think my proposal enhances privacy in every way. The Issuer does not have
any choice in whether the data subject’s agent is also a store for VCs. All
I’m doing is promoting the use of VCs. I am also promoting the use of
secure data stores because Issuers will be able to use SDS in many more
cases.

As far as how I’m using PDP / PEP, it is very important that the requesting
parties go to the data subject‘s agent (the PDP) first so that the Issuer
is not aware of their purpose or credentials or even the requested scope.
All the Issuer gets to know, IF the data subject chooses to bypass their
role as relay, is the Verifier's endpoint and the scope granted via the
capability.

As far as revocation, the choice of revocation method is worth further
discussion. If we want to restrict issuers to ALWAYS use a dead-drop or
equivalent means for revocation in order to ensure that the VCs they issue
are the same no matter the choice of the data subject to bypass their relay
role, that is a separate matter to discuss. My main point is to promote the
use of VCs and reduce the cost of the agent of the data subject by having
it store only policies rather than both policies and VCs.

- Adrian

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 2:50 AM David Chadwick <D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Adrian
>
>
>
> whilst your goals have some merit, your proposed way of achieving it has
>
> some serious flaws, see below
>
>
>
> On 14/08/2020 04:36, Adrian Gropper wrote:
>
> > Please help me draft a PR to the appropriate place [did-core?
>
> > did-use-cases? secure-data-store?] that describes the API for issuing
>
> > a verifiable credential such that:
>
> >
>
> > The Issuer:
>
> > - *MAY* or *SHOULD* emit a VC via a standard API (e.g. a secure data
>
> > store)
>
> > - the API protocol *MUST* support connection to both Holders or Verifiers
>
>
>
> connection to a verifier is in direct contradiction to the VC data model
>
> and should be strongly opposed. One of the privacy strengths of VCs is
>
> that the issuer does not know who the verifier is.
>
>
>
> You say you want to cater for holders/subjects who do not care about
>
> privacy, but by mandating this connection you are violating the rights
>
> of subjects who do care about their privacy, because they wont be able
>
> to protect it with what you propose.
>
>
>
> > [DIDcomm and/or HTTPS, etc...]
>
> > - the API *MUST* be a policy enforcement point (PEP). (the issuer can
>
> > run their own PDP, if they choose)
>
> > - the authority respected by the PEP *MUST* be either the Issuer or
>
> > the Data Subject
>
> > - the authority is a policy decision point (PDP) operated on behalf of
>
> > *either* the Issuer or the Data Subject
>
> > - a requesting party *MUST* present their request to the PDP (not the
> PEP)
>
>
>
> That is in direct contradiction to the standard PEP/PDP model.
>
> Requesters contact PEPs, and PEPs contact their own PDPs. What you want
>
> to achieve can still be achieved by defining a PEP with the properties
>
> you require and not by changing the overall standard model.
>
>
>
>
>
> > - that supports both self-authorized and subject-authorized requests
>
> > *MUST* offer separate APIs to reflect the separate PDPs.
>
> > - *SHOULD* notify the data subject when they receive or process an
>
> > access request via the self-authorized API
>
> >
>
> > The main goal here is to encourage Issuers to behave as oracles and
>
> > remove the adoption barrier of having to have a Holder when all the
>
> > data subject needs is an authorization server because they don't care
>
> > if the Issuer knows about the Verifier.
>
> >
>
> > Another goal is to simplify revocation in cases where the data subject
>
> > doesn't care if the Issuer knows about the Verifier.
>
>
>
> You cant have users who do care about privacy and users who don't care
>
> about privacy sharing the same revocation service, since the wishes of
>
> the users who do care will be disregarded.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Yet another goal is to protect the privacy of data subjects who would
>
> > prefer to process Verifier (as requesting party) access requests
>
> > (scope, purpose, credential) at a policy decision point (PDP) separate
>
> > from the Issuer (as PEP). The Verifier would then be given a
>
> > capability to be presented to the Issuer PEP.
>
> >
>
> > We recognize that the requesting party (Verifier) has legitimate
>
> > privacy concerns of their own and may prefer to present their
>
> > credentials to the Issuer rather than the Holder. In these cases, the
>
> > Issuer MAY offer a PDP of their own and the data subject SHOULD be
>
> > notified of the scope, purpose, and identity of the requesting party
>
> > (Verifier) as allowed by the policies of the PDP.
>
> >
>
> > - Adrian
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 12:16 PM Melvin Carvalho
>
> > <melvincarvalho@gmail.com <mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 at 00:35, Adrian Gropper
>
> >     <agropper@healthurl.com <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >         During today's CCG call we discussed ways that an institution
>
> >         would make public assertions about their practices. The
>
> >         assertions could be:
>
> >         - policies, commitments, or audits that are associated with
>
> >         the institution in general, or
>
> >         - certifications, badges, or licenses associated with specific
>
> >         individuals.
>
> >
>
> >         Either way, the assertions are typically public such as state
>
> >         medical licenses, federal DEA numbers, voter rolls, real
>
> >         estate, food and liquor licenses, law enforcement, license
>
> >         plates, D&B reports, court filings, sex offenders, white and
>
> >         yellow pages, etc. Access to these assertions was seldom
>
> >         limited before networking because there was sufficient
>
> >         friction to keep all but the most dedicated data brokers at
>
> >         bay. The friction also drove a business model around sale of
>
> >         this public information.
>
> >
>
> >         These public assertions are now the feedstock for thousands of
>
> >         data brokers operating as a broad surveillance mechanism,
>
> >         privatized, and without much transparency or regulation.
>
> >
>
> >         I call these public assertion issuers oracles because it
>
> >         matches how the term is used in smart contracts.
>
> >
>
> >         An oracle's public assertions can be open, behind a paywall,
>
> >         or restricted access. In the case of pay or access
>
> >         restrictions, the reason typically has nothing to do with the
>
> >         consent of the data subject. The restriction is based on the
>
> >         credentials of the requesting party such as law enforcement
>
> >         access to auto registry information or a no-fly list. Data
>
> >         brokers consume assertions from other oracles and act as
>
> >         oracles themselves, typically without the consent of the data
>
> >         subject.
>
> >
>
> >         Because consent does not figure into the practices of most
>
> >         oracles, be they public or private, the only reason to
>
> >         introduce a holder and their wallet is to avoid loss of
>
> >         privacy through traffic analysis. That's an important feature
>
> >         but there are many situations where the data subject really
>
> >         has no worries about the oracle knowing who the verifiers are.
>
> >         Oracles can, by policy, choose to erase access logs after 24
>
> >         hours. The assertions are often subject to revocation and
>
> >         having the verifier contact the oracle directly is more
>
> >         efficient than dead-drops.
>
> >
>
> >         In most any case, the data subject can always choose to make a
>
> >         copy of the assertion by the oracle in the form of a
>
> >         verifiable credential.
>
> >
>
> >         My point is that oracles could be using VCs regardless of what
>
> >         assertions they're making or whether the VC is going to a
>
> >         holder or a verifier. The only difference is whether the
>
> >         request is made by the data subject themselves (to go to their
>
> >         wallet) or by a verifier directly. Payment and revocation
>
> >         would need to be considered, of course. Some oracles would
>
> >         need to process requests as discussed in
>
> >
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020May/0049.html
>
> >         using protocols like GNAP
>
> >         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-richer-transactional-authz-09.
>
> >
>
> >         Oracles as Issuers has protocol implications for both access
>
> >         control and transport. How should we continue this discussion?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     Very much agree that verifiable claims can be used as oracles
>
> >
>
> >     That's how you tie together block chain crypto and the web, in
>
> >     order to make things scale to millions of participants
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >         - Adrian
>
> >
>
>
>
>