[MINUTES] W3C CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2020-04-20 12pm ET

Thanks to Simone Ravaoli for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-04-20/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

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CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Telecon Minutes for 2020-04-20

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020Apr/0184.html
Topics:
  1. Introductions & Reintroductions
  2. Learner Record Wrapper
Organizer:
  Christopher Allen and Joe Andrieu and Kim Hamilton Duffy
Scribe:
  Simone Ravaoli
Present:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy, Simone Ravaoli, Stuart Freeman, Jim Goodell, 
  Jim Kelly, Eric Welton, Chris Winczewski, Nate Otto, Laura 
  Jaurequi, David Ward, Adam Lemmon, Joe Andrieu, Alan Davies, John 
  Domingue
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-04-20/audio.ogg

HELP
Simone Ravaoli: Good to see you here, @Tore_Hoel !
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Laura Jaurequi: Ilauraj present+
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Going through boiler plate, house-keeping, 
  scribing... [scribe assist by Simone Ravaoli]
Simone Ravaoli is scribing.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Introductions and re-intros...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: This is Balasz
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Balasz Nemethi
Yes
Error: (IRC nickname 'balazs' not 
  recognized)[2020-04-20T15:15:36.524Z] <Balazs> Balazs Nemethi :)
Balasz: introduces hiself
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Tore_Hoel
@Tore_Hoel: from Norway head of the Ad Hoc group on Blockchain in 
  Education in ISO SC36
Kim Hamilton Duffy: David Ward dward
David Ward:  Introduces himself
Kim Hamilton Duffy: JimKelly
Jim Kelly:  Chair of PESC Board of Directors
Jim Kelly:  Chair of PESC Board of Directors

Topic: Learner Record Wrapper

Kimdh: intro the Learner Record Wrapper... several initiatives 
  around learner record.  Jim Goodell leading an effort starting 
  within T3 Innovation Netowor,, it is a VC based approach to unify 
  different payloads across standards bodies
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Jim is leading the work - one angle is to 
  provide a Wallet and Wrapper for learner record.  turns it over 
  to Jim
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Reference: T3 Innovation Network 
  https://www.uschamberfoundation.org/t3-innovation
Jim Goodell:  T3 is standard neutral to embrace all standards and 
  promote ILR in standard-based way... Learner Records is very 
  broad in scope, not jsut inside credential... includes work 
  experience, employer records, any learning experience... goal is 
  to develop a spec as a starting point for the ILR pilots suppoted 
  by T3
Jim_Goodel: pilots are looking for guidance... what is proposed 
  is to based the solution on the VC structure with some aliasing 
  in terms of credential subjects...
Jim Goodell:  ... Any payload is supported... plus a functional 
  spec for the Wallet..
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The word "credential" is confusing to 
  people... especially in the ed space... the word "subject" is 
  irritating to use in Education...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: ... Data model uses Jason-LD aliasing... 
  interesting to see if this can become an widespread approach... 
  back to Jim
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Learner wrapper is the focus of the 
  meeting... sharing the link to the ILR wrapper document
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gBKx47cgxsUnTMLxqg6Poswp4-led3x51unUY42fKUU/edit
Jim Goodell:  Main docs focuses on the wallet 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gBKx47cgxsUnTMLxqg6Poswp4-led3x51unUY42fKUU/edit
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/14yZ4nkubagv4S8_fKnVK5bnMJDDzY452zUFTDctYRs0/edit#
Kim Hamilton Duffy:   What are the uses cases this is solving ?  
  several different use cases we are dealing with - sharing a doc 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/14yZ4nkubagv4S8_fKnVK5bnMJDDzY452zUFTDctYRs0/edit#
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Situation where customer has data but there 
  is no well known Json-LD context available ... you can create one 
  or...
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Customer has data, no logical existing 
  json-LD context, you can still represent it but you need to 
  create context
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Not intending to expose the credntial data 
  in machine readable format, the idea is to use VC as a thin 
  wrapper or bridge so tools like the wallet can inspect outer 
  metadata..
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Went through 3 cases of the wrapper...
Jim Goodell:  Talking through the doc... description of 
  objective, picture from T3 project 10 work lead by Kim... the 
  idea is that there is manifes with minimum metadata to solve 
  current problem of being able to support pilot... most info in 
  the payload... tow main use cases: system2system and 
  self-sovereign
Jim Goodell:  Overview of the metadata ... manifest, issuer 
  identifiers, date, type (Json object)... for each payload, 
  learner identifier, 3 pieces of metadata around payload... intent 
  is to srtongly recommend machine-readable payload
Jim Goodell:  For the T3 pilot the idea is that machine-readable 
  should be encouraged...
Jim Goodell:  The package is Json-LD so by default payload could 
  be Json-LD... and they payload format could indicate that... but 
  it could something else as well... started out having separate 
  prop for payload format and types... decision to use the (?) 
  type... T3 network is working on a ILR resource hub but this is 
  not where the types would live...
Jim Goodell:  Scrolling doc on p.15 diagram of how things break 
  down... adding the use of payload type and format and 
  compression...
Jim Goodell:  ... Different kinds of proofs... giving an example 
  using Json-LD
Jim Goodell:  Working with a bunch of organizations already...
Jim Goodell:  Over to Kimhd
Nate Otto:  How the ecosystem comes togethere ? any orgs already 
  volunteer to build a wallet based on this spec ?
Jim Goodell:  Digitary has been looking into it... interested in 
  other organization looking into it
Nate Otto:  Requirement is that wallet can respone to 
  queries...what channel do those request come in ?  is it an agent 
  running on HTTP response or is it a protocl running on a user's 
  machine ?
Jim Goodell:  The intent is the data store in the wallet respond 
  to queries...
Jim Goodell:  How does the wallet receive the data?
Jim Goodell:  Keeping doors open to all architectures for the 
  wallet, just define what the functional requirements are to be 
  able to work with the wrapper...
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Has a couple of topics.. thanking Jim for 
  coming onto the call... great that the ILR wrapper could use the 
  VC spec... there are some pain points
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Json-LD context (that defines the term using 
  in credentials)... OB thx to the work of Nate is referencing the 
  VC work... with ILR wrapper defining new contexts, one thing is 
  the idea of a service that CCG could provide to host JsonLD 
  contxt, like and ILR Json-LD context, hosted in a CCG repo and 
  making shure it is avaible at a nice w3c url...  what do people 
  think ?  useful ?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Joe any comments?
Joe Andrieu:  Worked on this with Kim and Jim... there should be 
  a registry to host these contexts... the hosting should be 
  adopted as a work item as an output of the group...
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Registry and hosting - two key elements...
Jim Goodell: +Q to comment on the DID in scope
Nate Otto:  Exciting of this proposal is proof of control of DID 
  is in scope... have any particular protocols been proposed ? 
  could it be a work item fo rthis group ?
Jim Goodell:  DIDs and IRIs are options, but the intent is to 
  push DIDs...
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  DCC working on VC wallet so would be 
  interested in contribyte to interoperability via DID-web (?)... 
  could be a easy overhead method...
Joe Andrieu:  A lot of talk about identity levels... we need a 
  proof of control identifier, and I dont care how you get proof of 
  control.... get and present credentials require proof of 
  control... would welcome different types of provable identifiers 
  to be used...
Nate Otto:  Badgr has a WS that can function as a wallet... 
  looking at different identifiers (even twitter profiles), love to 
  add on other capabilities and open to work on it collaboratively 
  as a community to spin out pilots... issuing, reviewing and 
  inspecting crednetials... making Badgr available to play on this.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I love solid + vc: 
  https://github.com/kezike/solid-vc
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Kimhd to talk about solid
John Domingue:  Director of Research Lab at Open University UK, 
  looking into Blockchain, Open Badges and Solid ... OB linked to 
  description on Solid which have hashes on the Blockchain... have 
  been following VC since beginning and happy to join up with this 
  effort... particularly linking up with Solid..
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Twitter profiles, proof of control could be 
  a good work item... how do we write that document ?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Prototyping DID-web... what are standards 
  way to express proof of control mechanisms ? how to write 
  something truly interoperable across platforms... that would be 
  very interesting and informative outside the task force... there 
  is very little focus on how learners really use them...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://github.com/kezike/solid-vc
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  I love Solid and VC !   
  https://github.com/kezike/solid-vc  ... the subject of a VC is 
  represented by a Solid profile, like OB represent Issuers.. there 
  is a URI... Solid has same notion... Soid profiles could be 
  recipient of Badges
Joe Andrieu:  There is a working bid in Interop under DHS... who 
  are using a form of authentication over the credential handler 
  API ... hopefully published in CCG and integrate similar 
  conversation areound DID-Comm
John Domingue: My email john.domingue@open.ac.uk our work can be 
  seen at https://blockchain.open.ac.uk/
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  One more topic: VC a lot of reference format 
  are in Json-LD... but also pure Json is possible.. in terms of 
  signing process of VC, Json-LD is a first layer, behind there is 
  an RDF-graf... RDF canonicalization ...a Json object could be 
  signed and order maintained acroos platforms...
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  For standards that can express RDF, what are 
  the options ? ILR wallet is an interesting example... what about 
  PESC XML transcript ?  ... ILR wrapper shows way of signing...
John Domingue: [Have passed on  
  https://github.com/kezike/solid-vc to the team to look at]
Jim Goodell: +Q comment on longer term T3 harmonization
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  ... Other options expressing VC as XML... or 
  expressing the XML in Json-LD... if we are talking about 
  credentials that already exists, it is about wrapping... for new 
  credentials, we should be able to create credentials that are 
  fully mapped to an LD context.. .to have more linked data 
  capabilities... if we embed XML the metadata in the LR wrapper 
  still let you inspect, or can go further with everyghing 
  expressed as Linked Data... no[CUT]
Jim Goodell:  Longer term goal of T3 harmonization project .. 
  ideal state is that all different enconding could exist in the 
  same transport mechanism... longer term is to get existing 
  standards to leverage translation services... current project has 
  narrow scope, as simple as possible to support transport and... 
  both receiving and sending need to udnerstand - whether it is a 
  PESC transcript or CLR...
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Let see the Use Cases... the wallet and the 
  services available... how easy for the wallet to inspect 
  credentials.. wrapper is a way for wallet software to undertand 
  types inside... the advantage of LD signature ...
Nate Otto: This is great, thanks for getting some thinking 
  started here!
Joe Andrieu: Thanks, Kim & Jim!
Jim Goodell: Thank you for the input all!
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Thanks Jim for joining and sharing !  If you 
  are interested in IRL do engage and stay tuned for updates !

Received on Tuesday, 21 April 2020 19:31:47 UTC