- From: D.W.Chadwick <info@verifiablecredentials.info>
- Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:00:05 +1200
- To: main@toolsCCI.groups.io
- Cc: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>, "W3C Credentials CG (Public List)" <public-credentials@w3.org>
Hi Paul I can see how your schema applies to vaccinations, but not to immunity certificates Kind regards David On 13/04/2020 09:11, Paul Knowles wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm attaching a draft OCA schema spec for the "Immunization Passport". > I'm sure it will serve as a decent foundation for the final VC > construction. A screenshot of the current ICVP is also attached for > reference. > > An example of a Sovrin schema containing hashed payload and hashed > schema structure (deployed in a recent Novartis project) can be found > here <https://indyscan.io/tx/sovstaging/domain/81718>. > > In that example, the VC construct only contains 4 attributes: > > "credentialValidFrom" / "hashedPayload" / "payloadStructureID" / > "credentialValidUntil" > > [Note: "hashedPayload" represents a hash of the data (i.e. data > entry). "payloadStuctureID" represents a hash of the schema structure > used to capture the data (i.e. data capture)] > > Paul > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 10:39 PM D.W.Chadwick > <info@verifiablecredentials.info > <mailto:info@verifiablecredentials.info>> wrote: > > Hi Adrian > > here are a few comments on your model. > > On 13/04/2020 07:55, Adrian Gropper wrote: > > David, > > > > I'm working with a much simpler use-case where the > interpretation of > > all the lab tests, self-reported symptoms, and health records are > > reviewed by a physician who then issues a credential to the > subject as > > holder. > > This immediately raises the issue of scalability and trust in the > issuer > when there are hundreds of thousands of them. I discuss the topic of > delegation between issuers in my IEEE Communications Standards > (Dec 19) > paper which I believe I circulated to the list after Manu > announced the > IEEE special edition was published. But here it is again in case your > don't still have it > > Improved Identity Management with Verifiable Credentials and FIDO > https://kar.kent.ac.uk/80304/ <https://t.co/oULKKQS5WK?amp=1> > > But it is problem that credit card issuers have already addressed so > there are practical solutions in wide use today. > > > > The subject presents the credential (issued by the physician or > other > > expert) as a QR code along with showing the verifier their > biometric > > ID for in-person review. This is the same biometric ID that was > used > > to label the sample(s) to the labs. It is, in my mind the "link > > secret" but it's secret only if the people it's shown to don't > snap a > > picture of it. > > Your link secret is a persistent ID. Persistent IDs by their very > nature > are not secrets, since they are meant to be shared (unlike > transient ids). > > So your model has to assume that the biometric ID is a public ID much > like today's SSN is. > > Providing the biometrics are strong, with few false positives or > negatives, then this should not be a big problem, because even if > I know > your biometric ID I cannot fool anyone that I am you (except in the > false positive case). > > > > > Revocation (or freshness, because a verifier can simply have a > local > > policy for long a particular interpretation is valid depending > on the > > exposure context) aside, can we make this work if the holder and > the > > verifier are both off-line? > > I would say yes if the biometrics are good enough with acceptably few > false positives. But I don't think they currently are. And you would > need to configure the long list of trusted issuers into the > verifier for > offline use. > > Kind regards > > David > > > > > - Adrian > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 2:54 PM D.W.Chadwick > > <info@verifiablecredentials.info > <mailto:info@verifiablecredentials.info> > > <mailto:info@verifiablecredentials.info > <mailto:info@verifiablecredentials.info>>> wrote: > > > > Hi Eric > > > > Thankyou for your very detailed discussion below. > > > > A lot of your comments below are about the topic of "Attribute > > Aggregation", whereby the holder collects together attribute > > assertions > > from many different issuers and submits them either > concurrently or > > sequentially to the verifier. I think this is the correct way to > > go for > > medical certificates of all kinds, since each attribute > assertion (or > > VC) is independently collected by the user, each issuer acts > > independently of the others and does not need to know anything > > about the > > other issuers or the attributes they issue, and the *data > model and > > protocol* should provide a mechanism whereby the holder can > > collect the > > set and prove possession of the entire set that he/she > presents to > > the > > verifier. > > > > We implemented such a system many years ago for federated > identity > > management using SAML, and Open ID Connect now supports this > > feature in > > its protocols (as does our COVID-19 Immunisation Certificate > > verifiable > > credential middleware). In our case the unifying feature is a > > transient > > public key in each assertion, and the holder signs the > > presentation to > > prove possession of the collection. > > > > As you say, we certainly should not be asking the user to > remember > > yet > > another password. Such cognitive overload is unnecessary. > > > > Working offline as your require, it is impossible to achieve the > > above, > > because offline working does not allow transient identifiers > to be > > used. > > Persistent IDs must be used in this case, and each presentation > > (big QR > > code) will be the same and contain the same linking ID, thereby > > losing > > some of the holder's privacy. But these sorts of trade-offs are > > necessary, as no system can provide all the most desirable > features. > > > > So whether the linking id is transient or persistent will > depend upon > > the use case. > > > > I would add that using persistent IDs with offline working > introduces > > the added complexity of revocation. What happens when the > paper QR > > code > > given to a person becomes invalid because a new strain of > COVID-19 > > has > > arisen, meaning that their immunity is no longer valid. You > might > > argue > > that you could build in blanket refusal to everyone with a > similar > > immunity certificate, but this might be too blunt an > instrument. It > > depends upon the science of immunity, of which I know nothing. > > > > kind regards > > > > David > > > > On 13/04/2020 04:02, Eric Welton (Korsimoro) wrote: > > > > > > My original concern about the proposed VC involved the > linking of > > > id-proofing material with the medical data. For example > > > { > > > { IgG...., nameData...., humanSexualityFields...., > > > schema.orgPersonDescriptions..... } > > > } > > > And this was replaced with the following model > > > { > > > { IgG...., identityDocumentLinkData.....} > > > { identityDocumentLinkData...., restOfIdentityData..... } > > > } > > > where identityDocumentLinkData included an "identity document > > type", > > > and a field value for the externally defined "primary key like > > field" > > > for that identity document type. The example given was > the highly > > > u.s. specific "Driving License", but could easily be > extended to > > > include other identifying document, like national ids. This > > however, > > > introduces "low-value complexity" because of the need to > have the > > > medical information model include a semantical model of > allowable > > > identity-proofing documents - for example, are Saudi Arabian > > Iqama's > > > or Thai Resident Laborer Alien Cards ("Pink Cards") or United > > States > > > IR-visa cards acceptable? Where is this registry maintained - > > because > > > it is required so that you can look up the appropriate "field > > name" in > > > the id-proofing data - either that or you start pulling even > > more of > > > the id-proofing metadata into the medical information. > > > > > > And what does this identity proofing data have to do with > the raw > > > medical information? All of this complexity can be avoided by > > simply > > > taking advantage of the adjacency of the credentialSubject > material > > > and the fact that there is a unifying signature over that > data - > > as in > > > { > > > {.... medical information } > > > {.... id-proofing data, "this is a <name of document type>" } > > > } => signature (or hash) > > > > > > This lets you focus on modeling the medical information > > independent of > > > the identity-proofing information, and lets the verifier, > > holder, and > > > issuer use the id-proofing information as is appropriate > to the > > > context. It does not mandate, for example, disclosure of > a Social > > > Security Number to a medical testing lab. > > > > > > We also have a need to associate multiple pieces of medical > > > information, which are produced later - in different times and > > places > > > - with the identiity information. For example - blood > collected > > at a > > > medical intake facility might produce an initial record > > > (SampleCollectionCredential) like > > > { > > > { linkCode = <collision-resistant-pii-free-identifier> } > > > {.... medical information } > > > {.... id-proofing data, "this is a <name of document type>" } > > > } => signature > > > where the medical information may be nothing more than a > bar-code > > > printed on a label printer and attached to a test-tube, or may > > be more > > > sophisticated - as long as it is PII free. Location, facility, > > > attendant and that sort of information is split across the > medical > > > information and issuer identification as appropriate - or > perhaps > > > there are other data blocks {.... facility information } > or {.... > > > weather conditions }, etc. > > > > > > At a later time, the above SampleCollectionCredential is > used to > > > produce the following TestResultsCredential > > > { > > > { .... linkCode } > > > { .... second medical information } > > > { .... third medical information } > > > } => signature > > > > > > where the lab facility and processing information is again > split > > > between the issuer and the medical records - perhaps there are > > serial > > > numbers of re-agent lots or testing-kid GTIN/NTIN numbers, or > > any bits > > > of other data TBD. > > > > > > Importantly, no PII is used to link these records - it is an > > arbitrary > > > id, and not sha256(id-proofing-document-type, > > > id-proofing-document-primary-key-field-value, > > > 8-digit-one-time-use-passcode). Use of a purely random > collision > > > resistant identifier, like a UUID or public-key > fingerprint, avoids > > > the problems inherent in id-proofing document meta > modeling (which > > > require that we have a central registry of allowable > id-proof types > > > and models which minimally allows us to identify the > primary key > > field > > > in the id-proofing data model)... > > > > > > It also avoids placing the cognitive burden on the subject for > > > remembering yet another passcode - which they should > probably write > > > down on whatever document is provided. For example, a > feasible > > way to > > > maintain reference to the data is through a couple of QR codes > > > pointing to cloud-backed storage of the information, such as > > > > http://example.com/covid/collection/<linkCode>?password=12345678 > > > with the later-produced lab results available at > > > http://example.com/covid/results/<linkCode>?password=12345678 > > > > > > Importantly, the password is just encoded in the QR code, but > > > otherwise in plaintext. If we force the user to memorize the > > > password, we should provide a way to to record the user's > > password and > > > allow them to recover it, as remembering "yet another > series of > > random > > > digits" is very, very difficult. Perhaps they could > "store it in > > > their phone" as a fake phone number, or write it down on a > little > > > sticker, or we can give them a password recovery password, > which > > > itself would need a password recovery password recovery > password, > > > which itself would need a ...... Perhaps we could let them > > > "authenticate with google" or use their facebook login to > > retrieve the > > > password automatically.... > > > > > > The difficulty of supporting this password makes me want > to step > > back > > > and look at the role it plays. The need to restrict access to > > > information is *critical* when the medical information > contains > > > personally identifying information, such as is the case in > this > > model > > > { > > > { medical information...., idType=texasDriversLicense, > > > idPrimaryKey="12345" } > > > { detailed id-proofing information, > idType=texasDriversLicense, > > > texasDepartmentOfPublicSafetyNumber="12345" } > > > } > > > and, the subsequent test results are modeled as > > > { > > > { hashOfPII_and_Password } > > > { test1Results..... } > > > { test2Results..... } > > > } > > > but it is less of a concern when modeled as > > > { > > > { <collision-resistant-arbitrary-pii-free-identifier> } > > > { medical information.... } > > > { detailed id-proofing information, > idType=texasDriversLicense, > > > texasDepartmentOfPublicSafetyNumber="12345" } > > > } > > > and, the subsequent test results are modeled as > > > { > > > { <collision-resistant-arbitrary-pii-free-identifier> } > > > { test1Results..... } > > > { test2Results..... } > > > } > > > > > > In the latter there is no strong connection between the > source and > > > result data, but the connection is there and acceptance of > it is a > > > matter of personal taste and the reality of the sponsoring > > agency or > > > health authority operating the initial point of medical > contact and > > > testing. Subjects should not trust any random person > sitting in a > > > cardboard box under a bridge with collecting their blood and > > promising > > > they'll send it for testing - rather, there is some > organization > > > making the outreach and contracting with testing labs. It > is *this* > > > organization which is in a position to provide some level > of access > > > control, such as running the example.com > <http://example.com> <http://example.com> > > <http://example.com> website > > > allowing subjects and policy enforcement officers to > access the > > data > > > later on. > > > > > > In terms of "logging on to the lab website" rather than > through the > > > example.com <http://example.com> <http://example.com> > <http://example.com> website, > > is a secondary consideration > > > which may or may not make sense. In either case, the > > orchestrators of > > > the collection process have first-line access to id-proofing > > material, > > > and this material can be used to log in later - perhaps making > > use of > > > any of the numerous services that provide direct > verification of > > > primary id-proofing documents. Alternatively, sponsoring > > organizations > > > are likely to require that users download an "app" for the > devices > > > that manage those users, and use a "log in with facebook" > model > > for a > > > web-site serving non-device managed people. > > > > > > The business concerns of that sponsoring organization, or > of the > > lab's > > > business models should not influence the credential design > - but > > they > > > do benefit from maximum separation of concerns within the > > credential > > > design. This gives the most flexilibity and minimizes PII > > liability. > > > > > > Jurisdiction also plays a huge role - at MyData 2019 i saw a > > slide (I > > > am blanking on whose presentation) - but it listed three > > approaches to > > > data. The american approach where data control belongs to > > businesses, > > > the chinese approach where data control belongs to the state, > > and the > > > european model where data control belongs to the > individual. The > > > organization supporting the testing and issuance, and any > direct > > > access to results via the testing lab or 3rd parties, will > > operate in > > > one of these contexts. It is not the responsibility of > the covid > > > credential model to take a position on this - rather it > must remain > > > orthogonal to these concerns. This means that ensuring > individual > > > control over the use of the data is *not* in scope while > making any > > > structure which *prohibits* control over the data must be > avoided. > > > > > > What we must maximize is the independence of data points - > maximize > > > the separation of concerns - because this and only this > gives us > > the > > > flexibility we need to operate on a global scale. > > > > > > We also need to note that, while the initial { medical > > information... > > > } can be PII free, the following test results may or may > not be PII > > > free - depending on the depth and detail of the test. If the > > test is > > > only about "antibody present/absent" - then it is not PII > > sensitive, > > > but if it contained detailed analysis of a set of genetic > > markers such > > > that it was effectively a DNA fingerprint, then one might > argue > > that > > > it was PII. This influences the acceptability of the other > > components > > > and the risks inherent in the linkability of data - and it is > > > sensitive to your operating context. > > > > > > A great deal can be achieved in mitigating the current virus > > > distribution by supporting only low-PII rest results, and > zero-PII > > > linking keys. > > > > > > Regardless of PII exposure in the testing pipeline - the > > verification > > > context we seek looks like this: > > > > > > /1. subject approaches policy enforcement officer and > presents/ > > > /1.1 - QR code (digital or analog) > > > / > > > /1.2 - original identity proofing document (digital or analog) > > > / > > > /1.3 - self (analog) > > > / > > > /2. policy enforcement officer..../ > > > /2.1 - scans QR code and retrieves id-proofing data for > > > <collision-resistant-arbitrary-pii-free-identifier> > (performing > > issuer > > > verification) > > > / > > > /2.2 - makes judgement call as to whether id-proofing matches, > > using > > > whatever tools are appropriate - this could include everything > > from a > > > checkpoint guard simply looking at the photo on their > screen, along > > > with basic demographic data and then looking at the person in > > front of > > > them - or it could be more sophisticated, using biometrics > ranging > > > from facial recognition to voice printing and fingerprints./ > > > /2.3 - optionally requests some indication from the subject to > > > "release" the test results - but this is optional, and > depends upon > > > the tooling available to the policy enforcement officer > and the > > > subject and the context - this is roughly equivalent to > the use > > of the > > > PIN, but could be expanded (if SSI enabled) to include consent > > > tracking (in situations where that is relevant) > > > / > > > /2.4 - retrieves the relevant test results (performing issuer > > > verification) and determines appropriate course of action - > > allowing > > > the subject to continue, blocking the subject, or > detaining the > > subject/ > > > > > > Note that the subject is almost entirely passive. The digital > > > signatures support the identification of the issuer - and > that can > > > easily be tied in with existing PKI, where that exists, as > well as > > > using DIDs if that works - this is determined by the policy > > > enforcement context. Data could be presented by the > subject either > > > digitally or analog, as is appropriate to the context. What we > > > generally do not need is the subject to engage in negotiation, > > or be > > > able to "forget a password" or otherwise hose up the policy > > > enforcement pipeline. Imagine how long it would take to > get on the > > > subway if everyone had to "haggle" a ticket price - it is bad > > enough > > > using PIN based debit cards, which is why the typical subway > > access is > > > mediated by side-loaded stored-value systems - which excludes > > "putting > > > in a PIN" from the primary enforcement pipeline - this is the > > > sensibility we need to pursue. > > > > > > What is horrific about the above model is that the policy > > enforcement > > > is going to a central database that has "all the records" > - that is > > > kinda what we want to avoid. To avoid this we need to get > a third > > > credential - and ideally one that is "fit for purpose" (e.g. > > tailored > > > to the policy enforcement need, and perhaps sponsored > by/issued by > > > that agency) - or, alternatively, one that is generic - in > which > > case > > > it should be offered by some common agency which is > financially > > > supported by the policy enforcement agencies. > > > > > > Such a third party might be related to the same agency > > supporting the > > > testing tents and outreach - and the same considerations about > > > "logging in" apply. > > > > > > What is important is that these tertiary credentials can > > effectively > > > act like a zero-knowledge-proof or a ZCAP key. For example > - let's > > > imagine that I wanted to screen people at an inter-state > border, > > only > > > allowing people to enter my state if they could prove that > they had > > > recently been tested and are negative. What I want at the > > border is a > > > very fast test with no network access - like scanning a > "big QR > > code" > > > - it is easy to imagine a system with this verification > strategy: > > > 1. subject approaches policy enforcement officer (or > system) and > > presents > > > 1.1. self (stares into camera) > > > 1.2 qr code (holds up to camera) > > > 2. policy enforcement officer (or system) > > > 2.1 performs facial recognition between self and image encoded > > in qr > > > code and/or bound to id-proofing document > > > 2.2 checks that 'virus testing result' matches policy > > > 2.3 verifies issuer credentials > > > 2.4 makes policy decision (for example, raises gate and allows > > subject > > > to pass) > > > > > > This would be completely feasible - it has no network round > > trips so > > > there is no essential central honeypot of test results. > > Furthermore, > > > the subject could (in jurisdictions with GDPR-like > legislation) > > > request that any central records of the first stages be > deleted, > > > meaning that the QR code (either on a sticker or in their > phone > > or any > > > other device that manages them) is the only record of the > data - > > yet > > > it was born with a chain-of-evidence and data-provenance which > > > provides strong indication of trustworthiness. > > > > > > You can also imagine that later, as this ecosystem matures, > > tertiary > > > credentials could be issued almost automatically - using > the ever > > > improving systems that support online verification of the > original > > > id-proofing document, along with liveness checks and strong > > > audio/visual biometrics - and this brings us to *SSI* and > *cloud > > > agents*. All of the above can be improved through the use > of SSI > > > technology - be it either cloud-agents or edge-agents. What is > > > essential is that the process is possible without SSI > > technology. SSI > > > and private-key management must be an enhancement to this > > process, not > > > a requirement. > > > > > > Furthermore, SSI agents enable advanced control over the > further > > uses > > > of testing associated information - where agents are > understood > > > generically - perhaps they are Aires agents, or perhaps > they are > > > HIE-of-one Trustees. Until that infrastructure is > ubiquitous and > > > business practices and policy enforcement endpoints are well > > poised to > > > make use of them, we must not require it. We are building > > towards a > > > world where our solution looks like this > > > { > > > {.... medical information } > > > {.... did } > > > } => signature (or hash) > > > And where eventually we will use the service_endpoints of the > > DID to > > > answer every request for id-proofing data with the > question "who > > > want's to know" and make a private-policy driven decision for > > > information release, therefore giving the individual control > > over all > > > exchanges of their health information - we just aren't there > > yet. On > > > the other hand, this is a phenomenal opportunity for > bootstrapping > > > that universe if we can find just the right way to > sidestep the > > > chicken-and-egg problem. > > > > > > The only step that can be taken - at this point - is > isolating, as > > > early as possible, PII from medical information and break from > > > traditional practices, which would use PII in place of > > > opaque-identifiers. This is a significant step forward - > as it is > > > extremely tempting to start out with data using structures > like > > > { > > > IgG... > > > IgM... > > > gender.... > > > firstName... > > > lastName... > > > address.... > > > mobileNumber... > > > emailAddress... > > > } > > > > > > So - I think we can make a huge step forward using the > > technology we > > > have and deploying it in a way that works for DID and > phone free > > > individuals, and supports rapid, low cost, offline > deployment in > > > front-line policy enforcement scenarios across all tiers of > > technical > > > capabilities. We can achieve these goals with this model: > > > *Sample Collection Credential:* > > > { > > > { linkCode = <collision-resistant-pii-free-identifier> } > > > {.... medical information } > > > {.... id-proofing data, "this is a <name of document type>" } > > > } => signature > > > *Test Results Credential:* > > > { > > > { .... linkCode } > > > { .... second medical information } > > > { .... third medical information } > > > } => signature > > > and derive *Rapid Clearance Credentials* (QR encoding) to > > facilitate > > > zero-network, minimal-PII, high quality, point-of-enforcement > > decision > > > making. > > > > > > This is something we have all the tools to deliver > quickly. Maximal > > > separation of data concerns minimizes risk of abuse and can > > adapt to > > > worldwide conditions across a huge range of technical > > realities. This > > > opens the door to improvement via SSI technology - > specifically > > agents > > > and trustees, and sophisticated personal information wallets. > > > > > > best, > > > > > > -e > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 12:28 AM orie > > <orie@transmute.industries> wrote: > > > > > > Based on feedback from Daniel Hardman and Adrian's > comments, I'm > > > planning on implementing a new ImmunoglobulinDetectionTest > > schema. > > > > > > The first format was aimed at anyone with a face, and > assumed a > > > cassette test and that the credential subject has a DID. > > > > > > There pros and cons to that approach... the most > obvious con is > > > that absolutely nobody has DIDs. > > > > > > I like the idea of splitting up the sample collection > part and > > > rest results part into 2 credentials, and using existing > > > identifiers and hashing to link them. > > > > > > Here would be the new user story: > > > > > > 1. Subject drives up to a tent in a parking lot. > > > > > > 2. Testing Facility Checks some id ( "presentedIDType: a > > picklist > > > with strings such as "drivers license", "passport", > "national ID > > > card", etc " ) > > > > > > 3. Testing Facility Collects blood sample and issues a > > > "SampleCollectionCredential" > > > > > > subject = sha256 ( presentedIDType + presentedIDNumber + > > 8-DIGIT-PIN ) > > > presentedIDType (repeated in credential) > > > testResultURL: > https://example.com/covid-19/vc-test-results/ ( > > > subject ) > > > > > > credential is provided on paper, to the subject after > sample is > > > taken (multiple copies are provided, and it's safe for > them > > to be > > > copied further). > > > > > > 4. sample get sent to lab... days go by, etc... > > > > > > 5. Subjects can check a registry for their test results, > > when test > > > results are ready they are published at a URL, which > is provided > > > to them in their credential. > > > > > > testResultURL: > https://example.com/covid-19/vc-test-results/ ( > > > subject ) > > > > > > 6. Subject can present test results to TSA / Law > Enforcement > > when > > > traveling by presenting their > "SampleCollectionCredential" , > > > whatever ID type they used for it, and disclosing their 8 > > DIGIT PIN > > > > > > 7. Verification is as follows > > > 7.1 confirming the face / gender / eyes / height (etc) > of the ID > > > Card used for "SampleCollectionCredential" > > > 7.2 Verify "SampleCollectionCredential" (no VP here, > since the > > > subject has no keys / DID). > > > 7.3 Confirm subject = sha256 ( > > > presentedIDType + presentedIDNumber + 8-DIGIT-PIN ) > (website > > helps > > > them do this) > > > 7.3 Lookup testResultURL: > > > https://example.com/covid-19/vc-test-results/ ( subject ) > > > 7.4 Verify "SampleTestResultCredential" > > > 7.5 Apply allow / deny list (any other business logic > rules) > > > > > > > > > Only the issuers would have DIDs in this scenario, and > there > > would > > > be no signed verifiable presentations. > > > > > > anyone with presentedIDType + presentedIDNumber + > 8-DIGIT-PIN, > > > could claim a test result belonged to them, and its the > > > responsibility of the verifier to check > the presentedIDType. > > > > > > Assuming that the presentedIDType where digital and > > > that SampleCollectionCredential were digital, a > Presentation > > that > > > included the disclosure of the 8-DIGIT-PIN could be made > > over any > > > transport that was supported ( CHAPI / DIDComm / > Bluetooth ) > > > > > > OS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 5:40 PM Adrian Gropper > > > <agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com> <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com>> > > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com> <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com>>>> > > wrote: > > > > > > inline... > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 6:06 PM Orie Steele > > > <orie@transmute.industries> wrote: > > > > > > I'm not sure the exact context but I think the > following > > > is equivalent to what you are suggesting. > > > > > > > > > The context is getting through a door by showing > the bouncer > > > your phone the way you might a driver's license. > This is not > > > like showing a boarding pass to the gate agent because > > there's > > > no pre-registration. The main issue in this > context, is > > > whether the bouncer thinks you've borrowed > somebody else's > > > license or tampered with your own license. There is no > > privacy > > > issue as long as the bouncer promises not to save > any PII > > > after he makes a decision to let you in or not. > > > > > > > > > 1. Testing facility draws blood from people with > > driver's > > > licenses. > > > 2. Testing facility labels samples with unique > id = > > > sha256(drivers license + salt). > > > > > > 3. When I log into the lab (how? by email, phone > > number?, > > > anybody can see results?)... I can find the > result of my > > > test, which contains no PII, by knowing my drivers > > license > > > number and the salt. > > > > > > > > > By the hash. The hash was generated by your > wallet. The lab > > > never sees the actual driver's license. > > > > > > The lab issues a VC to the hash that includes your > test > > result. > > > > > > 4. When someone asks for my results, I can > show them my > > > drivers license and disclose the salt, and the > can go > > > download the results themself, or confirm that the > > results > > > I provided have the same identifier... but I > also need > > > them to believe that whatever I provided them has > > not been > > > tampered with, hence they also verify the VC. > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure about the salt. If I trust the > verifier not to > > > store the data from my driver's license, I can let > them > > > calculate the hash (with salt) and match it to the VC > > that was > > > issued to the hash. > > > > > > > > > There are a couple things combined in these > which it's > > > probably a good idea to seperate. > > > > > > 1. VC Format (sample identifier is a deterministic > > > function of an existing identifier, and we > trust the > > test > > > facility to generate this). > > > > > > > > > Not necessarily. The association between the > sample and the > > > driver's license may be made by a nurse that draws the > > blood. > > > The nurse saves nothing but might sign the hash > with her > > > credentials in order to be held accountable. > > > > > > 2. VC is signed at the lab, not at the point of > > > collection... so we trust the lab, they are > the issuer, > > > and we trust them not to change the identifier > from the > > > facility... the lab does not need any PII to > do its > > job... > > > unless they provide a web portal to log in > with pii.. if > > > they just disclose test results publically, > then they > > > don't need PII. > > > > > > > > > Yes, mostly. The result is accessed by the hash. > This is > > > similar to how COVID bluetooth proximity schemes > (Google and > > > Apple announcement) are based on pseudorandom > rotating IDs > > > that can only be re-identified by the issuing app > which is > > > under the control of the subject (the wallet). > > > > > > 3. VCs are disclosed via some permission system > > (login)... > > > not defined, but I would assume sms / email / > IAL Level > > > 2... implies the lab needs PII. or that the login > > > mechanism is knowing a sample-id... > > > > > > > > > No. The lab has zero PII. > > > > > > 4. Presentation of the VC includes the > disclosure of > > > information which can be used to bind an existing > > > identifier (drivers license) to the rest > results... > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > VCs for tests that have to be retrieved from > the lab are > > > harder than ones that come from a facility > that just > > does > > > everything, which is why i tackled the easy case > > first... > > > but I guess its probably much more realistic > that people > > > would have to wait / lookup their results. > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > - Adrian > > > > > > > > > OS > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:06 PM Adrian Gropper > > > <agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com> > > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com>> <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com> > > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com > <mailto:agropper@healthurl.com>>>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Apologies if I missed the answer elsewhere > but I'm > > > lost when it comes to the photo on a driver's > > license. > > > I'll ask again: > > > - The state driver's license in my pocket > has a > > photo, > > > a license number, and some tamper-resistant > > features. > > > - When I go get a serology test, the person > > drawing my > > > blood might look at my license, write a > hash of my > > > license number and photo on the tube and > send to > > the lab > > > - I log in to the lab, search for the hash > that was > > > put on the tube and download the result to > my wallet > > > - When someone asks for my result, I show > them my > > > driver's license with my photo and the > hash of the > > > number matches the VC I received from the lab > > > > > > So, > > > - My photo and the driver's license number > never > > left > > > my wallet. > > > - A tamper-resistant scheme has to prevent > me from > > > changing the photo on my license without also > > changing > > > the hash that labels the sample and the > result. > > > > > > What am I missing? > > > > > > - Adrian > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:56 AM Orie Steele > > > <orie@transmute.industries> wrote: > > > > > > CC'ing the W3C Mailing list, since > > this discussion > > > of COVID-19 Credentials has been > discussed there > > > as well... > > > > > > Most of the attributes are just > leftovers from > > > basing the credential on a > > Permanent Resident Card. > > > > > > I'm not sure how the VC Data Model values > > would be > > > collected, but it's sometimes the case > that an > > > organization will use birthdate, > gender and name > > > to double check that things like SSN / > Driver's > > > License are accurate (I've seen this > kind of > > > overcollection in healthcare, for this > exact > > > reason)... people make mistakes when > entering > > > data, having a group of values to > check against, > > > helps mitigate the damage caused by these > > > mistakes, but it's not a perfect solution. > > > > > > I was expecting some request for a > binding to a > > > SSN / Drivers License... I'm not sure > > > that's actually a good idea, but I'm > not an > > expert. > > > > > > My thought was that this credential > could be > > > provided by a laptop computer in a > tent, to > > people > > > who have no existing identification > (persons > > > experiencing homelessness, refugees, > etc...) > > > > > > Obviously you don't need a picture or > any of the > > > PII fields if you are just going to > bind to > > > another identity system like drivers > license > > > number... but that credential won't > work for > > > people who are not registered... > > > > > > The credential format could be expanded to > > include > > > either a binding to a well known identity > > system, > > > OR the current approach... that might give > > us the > > > best of both worlds. > > > > > > If you can leave comments on the PR, > that will > > > help make sure that other communities > > (outside of > > > these mailing lists) can see your > thoughts. > > > > > > Thanks for the feedback! > > > > > > OS > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 9:11 AM Daniel > Hardman > > > <daniel.hardman@evernym.com > <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com> > > <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com > <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com>> > > > <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com > <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com> > > <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com > <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com>>>> wrote: > > > > > > Regarding Eric's comments about > identifying > > > the subject: > > > > > > The strategy proposed in the > schemas doc > > in a > > > couple places [1 > > > > > > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F5TLvAqCxj1kaPuPe6JhdECixwpbhKpEAb8eeQuDGT4/edit?disco=AAAAGVNlqxU>, > > > 2 > > > > > > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F5TLvAqCxj1kaPuPe6JhdECixwpbhKpEAb8eeQuDGT4/edit#heading=h.31e94ad08nhb>] > > > is to provide just enough > information about > > > the holder to let them be linked > to other > > > credentials (physical or > digital/VC) that > > > provide strong identification as > needed. > > > Orie's example is mostly aligned > with this > > > proposal, though its birthdate + photo > > may be > > > a little more than is needed. The > reasoning > > > behind this is that a lab isn't > going to be > > > authoritative about facts of > birth, and > > > probably isn't going to take a > photo of each > > > test subject, but probably will > check a > > > stronger form of ID when the test > sample is > > > submitted -- so whatever form of > ID they > > > check, they need to embed just > enough info > > > about the holder in their results to > > allow the > > > holder to present the same strong > > > identification later. > > > > > > An example of how this could be > tweaked to > > > embody the proposal a little > better might be > > > to remove the photo and birthdate > > fields, and > > > to add the following two fields: > > > > > > presentedIDType: a picklist with > strings > > such > > > as "drivers license", "passport", > > "national ID > > > card", etc > > > presentedIDNumber: the number from > whatever > > > strong identification the test subject > > > supplied when submitting the sample > > > > > > Now it becomes clear how Eric can > > explain the > > > trust dynamics to a harried government > > > official: "The testing regime has > the same > > > trust dynamics as our national ID > > > card/passport/driver's licenses, > because > > that > > > form of ID has to be used to submit a > > sample, > > > and the same ID has to be used when > > presenting > > > the test results." > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 3:58 AM > Eric Welton > > > (Korsimoro) <eric@korsimoro.com > <mailto:eric@korsimoro.com> > > <mailto:eric@korsimoro.com <mailto:eric@korsimoro.com>> > > > <mailto:eric@korsimoro.com > <mailto:eric@korsimoro.com> > > <mailto:eric@korsimoro.com <mailto:eric@korsimoro.com>>>> wrote: > > > > > > Fantastic! Thanks! > > > > > > I have a two questions and am > thinking > > > about how I could > summarize/present this > > > to a government minister and > relate > > it to > > > a paper form version of the same. > > > > > > First question: what is a > TestCard? and > > > what role does that play? > > > > > > Second - and this is a > question that is > > > more "general" - i'm not > nitpicking this > > > specific example, but > wondering more > > about > > > credential design in general > and how we > > > want to deal with the issue of > subject > > > identification: > > > > > > - in addition to IgG and IgM - the > > context > > > explicitly out a name-pair, > > birthday, and > > > something to do with the subject's > > > sexuality, and the Person > structure from > > > schema.org <http://schema.org> <http://schema.org> > <http://schema.org> is called > > > out, where most of the fields > in the > > > Person model are not > particularly useful > > > for identifying a Person but > more about > > > "describing" a Person or > Person-like > > thing. > > > > > > Taken together, the presented > > information > > > doesn't let me easily point to a > > Person in > > > a way that is immediately > useful to me - > > > for my use cases, I would > imagine one of > > > the two: > > > - a national id number or semantic > > model, > > > with optional image (citizens) > > > - a passport semantic model, with > > optional > > > image (foreigners) > > > > > > I don't see this as a deep > problem, > > > because I can always build up > > context that > > > matches the identification context > > > relative to my expected use > context > > - e.g. > > > I want a checkpoint guard to > be able to > > > see the IgM/IgG information, > an F2F > > > presented plastic national id > card or > > > passport, and make a policy > enforcement > > > decision. > > > > > > So the question is just more > generic - > > > drawing on this example as a > starting > > > point and using it to explore > guidance - > > > how can we do this > systematically so > > that > > > we don't have covid > credentials that > > vary > > > for every issuance context based > > solely on > > > the properties of "subject > > identification"? > > > > > > One option is to push that out > of the > > > credential entirely, and let > that come > > > from the wallet or alternate > documents > > > provided during presentation - > > linked only > > > by cryptographic material. But > that > > brings > > > in a raft of problems and > would be a > > hard > > > sell in a 30 second elevator > pitch to a > > > busy and distracted government > > minister - > > > especially one with a mental > model of a > > > physical form with tons of lateral > > > information on it. > > > > > > The other option is to try to > > "define the > > > subject information" in the > credential > > > over and over - like, family > name, given > > > name, birth date, sexual > idiosyncracies, > > > DUNS number, brand, funder, > > > honorificSuffix, > interactionStatistic, > > > product offerings, performances, > > employer, > > > or many of the other Person > > attributes ;) > > > > > > Perhaps a strategy of figuring out > > how to > > > pool information in loosely > coupled > > groups > > > - e.g. only the Ig* values in > one group, > > > the person identification in > another - > > > perhaps as a one-or-more-of-many > > selection > > > - there might be a pattern we can > > > establish here that clearly > isolates the > > > human-identification-variability from the > > > relatively stable science-driven > > covid-19 > > > data. > > > > > > again - my concern is for > explaining > > this > > > to a non-technical politician > as soon as > > > Monday - and we assume that person > > has an > > > existing mental model, one that > > looks like > > > "all the other test result > > documentation" > > > they've seen - with a bunch of > > > socially-specific subject > identification > > > information, issuer identification > > > information, document > photocopies, and > > > signatures, stamps, and more > signatures, > > > and more stamps - in red, for > extra > > > authentication and security. > > > > > > best, > > > > > > -e > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:06 > AM orie > > > <orie@transmute.industries> wrote: > > > > > > https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-examples/pull/30 > > > > > > Based on the new > schema.org <http://schema.org> > > <http://schema.org> > > > <http://schema.org> > definitions for > > > COVID-19 testing > facilities and the > > > DHS SVIP hypothetical > Permanent > > > Resident Card. > > > > > > Issued from a did:web, > Presented > > by a > > > did:key. > > > > > > Comments welcome. > > > > > > -- > > > *ORIE STEELE* > > > Chief Technical Officer > > > www.transmute.industries > > > > > > > <https://www.transmute.industries> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *ORIE STEELE* > > > Chief Technical Officer > > > www.transmute.industries > > > > > > <https://www.transmute.industries> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *ORIE STEELE* > > > Chief Technical Officer > > > www.transmute.industries > > > > > > <https://www.transmute.industries> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *ORIE STEELE* > > > Chief Technical Officer > > > www.transmute.industries > > > > > > <https://www.transmute.industries> > > > > > > > > > > > > _._,_._,_ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Groups.io Links: > > You receive all messages sent to this group. > > View/Reply Online (#99) <https://toolsCCI.groups.io/g/main/message/99> > | Reply To Group > <mailto:main@toolsCCI.groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BtoolsCCI%5D%20Example%20Immunoglobulin%20Detection%20Test%20Credential> > | Reply To Sender > <mailto:paul.knowles@humancolossus.org?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BtoolsCCI%5D%20Example%20Immunoglobulin%20Detection%20Test%20Credential> > | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/72913968/4526704> | New Topic > <https://toolsCCI.groups.io/g/main/post> > > Your Subscription <https://toolsCCI.groups.io/g/main/editsub/4526704> > | Contact Group Owner <mailto:main+owner@toolsCCI.groups.io> | > Unsubscribe > <https://toolsCCI.groups.io/g/main/leave/8153977/92991810/xyzzy> > [info@verifiablecredentials.info] > > _._,_._,_
Received on Sunday, 12 April 2020 22:00:33 UTC