W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-credentials@w3.org > May 2019

Re: Trust in Issuers

From: Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2019 15:57:06 -0700
To: public-credentials@w3.org, Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
Message-ID: <f53ef0af-3a89-a6f1-ec91-664a63963c41@sunshine.net>
On 2019-05-07 2:34 pm, Adrian Gropper wrote:
> The issue of surveillance across contexts boils down to 
> self-censorship. China's social credit scoring is the extreme example 
> but Facebook in the US is really no different. Once we allow our 
> activities in one context to be used in another context then we need 
> to worry that we will be asked for our Facebook login when we ask for 
> a visa or seek employment.

I'm groping trying to understand this; could you say it in another way?

To me, it appears to be saying that the individual has control over 
what the prospective employer or the government does. That we're 
"allowing" them to have that control.

Is that what you mean?

Steven


> 
> Adrian
> 
> On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 2:44 PM Timothy Holborn 
> <timothy.holborn@gmail.com <mailto:timothy.holborn@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Why not multimodal?
> 
>     Or did I miss that part of the functional spec, being discussed...?
> 
>     There are use cases where tracking the use of a verifiable claim
>     is as important as the claim itself, for various reasons,
>     including protection from scope-creep.
> 
>     Noting also, I am.firmly of the view that solid interoperability
>     is essential.
> 
>     Timo.
> 
>     On Wed., 8 May 2019, 4:18 am Brent Zundel,
>     <brent.zundel@evernym.com <mailto:brent.zundel@evernym.com>> wrote:
> 
>         Carlos,
> 
>         The problem is not that issuers must be trusted (they must).
>         The problem with the business model is that it is predatory.
>         It allows the worst abuses of surveillance capitalism to
>         continue, under the guise of self-sovereign identity.
>         As I see it, once a credential has been issued it is not the
>         issuer's business how I use that credential. Let's say I have
>         been issued a credential asserting my national citizenship
>         (such as a passport), then use my credential to prove my
>         address so that I can join a local gardening club. Is it the
>         passport issuer's business that I like gardening? Let's say my
>         bank issues me a credential asserting my account information,
>         then I  use that credential to set up automatic donations to
>         my church. Is it the bank's business which church I attend?
>         A credential revocation scheme that requires the issuer be
>         contacted in order to verify the current revocation status of
>         the credential allows the issuer to track every use of that
>         credential.
>         Revocation schemes such as Sovrin's do not require the issuer
>         to be contacted to check the revocation status of the
>         credential. They also do not require public revocation lists.
>         They allow for proofs on non-revocation that reveal nothing
>         other than whether a credential has been revoked.
> 
>         On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 8:35 PM Carlos Bruguera
>         <carlos@selfkey.org <mailto:carlos@selfkey.org>> wrote:
> 
>             Why is it a problem that credential issuers establish
>             business models such as the one described? In what manner
>             does it threat self sovereign identity? In the end,
>             trusting the issuers is /always/ required as far as I
>             know, and DIDs still allow for other types of credentials
>             not requiring to rely on these issures... Perhaps I don't
>             fully understand the example. In what manner do revocation
>             schemes (such as Sovrin's) disallow such use cases? Also,
>             shouldn't the credential issuers always be able to set
>             arbitrarily long (or perhaps even null) expiration times?
> 
>             Regards,
>             Carlos
> 
>             On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 4:43 PM Daniel Hardman
>             <daniel.hardman@evernym.com
>             <mailto:daniel.hardman@evernym.com>> wrote:
> 
>                 Agreed.
> 
>                 On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 1:58 AM David Chadwick
>                 <D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk
>                 <mailto:D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk>> wrote:
> 
>                     But this does not stop others from using the back
>                     door! The back door
>                     should be bricked up.
> 
>                     On 16/04/2019 18:52, Daniel Hardman wrote:
>                      > Right. This is why Sovrin went down the road of
>                     testing revocation with
>                      > a cryptographic accumulator instead of a
>                     conversation back to the issuer.
>                      >
>                      > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:49 AM David Chadwick
>                     <D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk
>                     <mailto:D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk>
>                      > <mailto:D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk
>                     <mailto:D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk>>> wrote:
>                      >
>                      >     The current FIM
>                      >     model places the IdP at the centre of the
>                     ecosystem, which is ideal for
>                      >     Google tracking users and capturing data.
>                     VCs do not do this.
>                      >
>                      >     However, the current VC data model gives
>                     Google a back door for this as
>                      >     follows:
>                      >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Adrian Gropper MD
> 
> PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!
> HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data.
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Received on Tuesday, 7 May 2019 22:57:31 UTC

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