[MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2019-07-02 12pm ET

Thanks to Samantha Mathews Chase for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2019-07-02/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

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Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2019-07-02

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Jul/0000.html
Topics:
  1. Introductions and Reintroductions
  2. Announcements and Reminders
  3. Progress on Action Items
  4. Amira
Organizer:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy and Joe Andrieu and Christopher Allen
Scribe:
  Samantha Mathews Chase
Present:
  Shivam Sethi, Kim Hamilton Duffy, Christopher Allen, Yancy 
  Ribbens, Vaughan Emery, Ken Ebert, Justin Richer, Daniel Buchner, 
  Adrian Gropper, Jonathan Holt, Markus Sabadello, Kaliya Young, 
  Joe Andrieu, Drummond Reed, Samantha Mathews Chase, Ted 
  Thibodeau, Jeff Orgel, Heather Vescent, James from Kaiser 
  Permanente, Manu Sporny, Bill Barnhill, Chris Webber, Dmitri 
  Zagidulin, Brent Zundel, Bill Gebert
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2019-07-02/audio.ogg

Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://zoom.us/j/7077077007
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LkqZ10z7FeV3EgMIQEJ9achEYMzy1d_2S90Q_lQ0y8M/edit?usp=sharing
Samantha Mathews Chase is scribing.

Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions

Kim Hamilton Duffy: Intro James KP from Kaiser Permanente
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Intro Shivam Sethi
Shivam Sethi: I am Shivam, working as cyber security consultant
  ... used to work w/ drummond at OASIS, CCG is first effort back 
  at standards, interested in identity, mostly working but trying 
  to contribute soon
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/

Topic: Announcements and Reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.comsoc.org/publications/magazines/ieee-communications-standards-magazine/cfp/dawn-internet-identity-layer-and
IEEE dawn of internet layer and the role of DID deadline is SOON 
  july 4th or 6th
Drummond Reed:  Doesn't need to be complete, just has to be a 
  sensible draft
Drummond Reed: Well put, Sam
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://zoom.us/j/7077077007
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  No DID call this Thursday, it's after this 
  meeting
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.meetup.com/Vienna-Digital-Identity-Meetup/events/262359964/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.WebOfTrust.info
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-ix-2019b-prague-tickets-63443365815
Sept 1 in Vienna
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  RWOT 9 Sep 3-6, lots of people training 
  between vienna and prague... FUN
  .... Topic paper discounts, get them in
Chris Webber:  The activity hub community is in lots of Open 
  source projects, mostly Mastodon, they want to have a meetup 
  right after Rebooting, maybe plan  to stay the weekend
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  TPAC 2019-sep 16-20, no CCG breakout 
  session, but Dan has registered us for a DID working group 
  session
Shivam Sethi: Hi Guys I am not able to connect Could someone 
  please help me or provide me a number
  ...there will be some people from the CCG group going
Bill Barnhill: @Chris FYI I had been exploring adding DID support 
  to Mastodon, so if remote attendance is possible with that 
  meeting I’m definitely interested
Manu Sporny:  Activity Pub, dec messaging, deployed our 
  signatures, overlap with secure data hubs spec, using this as an 
  opportunity to get our communities collaborating together more
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://mydata2019.org/
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Mydata 2019, Sep ??
Markus Sabadello: Is there a webpage about the ActivityPub 
  meeting ?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-iiwxxix-29-2019b-tickets-61880910469
Kaliya Young: IIW is Oct 1-3
Kaliya Young:  We need sponsors!

Topic: Progress on Action Items

Progress on Action items
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22action%3A+review+next%22
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Updating ABNF for DIDs #57 
  (https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/57)
Issue 57, added it because it looked like it was ready to close
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Issue 57, manu can you speak to it, or 
  marcus? Any comments?
Shivam Sethi: Hi Guys please provide any link so that i can 
  connect using my system
Shivam Sethi: I am not able to connect via phoneline
Marcus: there is another open PR, it's closed for now
Manu Sporny: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/530
Manu Sporny:  Sorry semi, unprepared, theres an issue on the VC 
  data model spec
Manu Sporny: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-extension-registry/pull/2
  ....trying to wrap up, had a pr for extension registry
Markus Sabadello: ABNF PR has been merged: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-spec/pull/189 Older one by dmitriz 
  is still open but I think has been superceded: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-spec/pull/168
Manu Sporny: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-extension-registry/pull/2
  ... background, wanted these to merge, haven't got enough 
  reviews
  ...the verifiable credential spec is blocked, this is high 
  priority, need 1 or 2 more reviews, needs to be a work item
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  On the code owner I see only Manu, any other 
  editors we can add to the VC registry? doesn't need to be solved 
  now but that's the one other thing,
  ...christopher, Joe, Matt Stone and Me, we all need to review 
  it and we also need an editor, Manu we will follow up over 
  mailing list
Daniel Buchner:  Hey, just want to touch on, when we were in 
  denver talked with drummond about data store, the concept of 
  such, not sure if everyone familiar between Aries and identity 
  hub group, as of this last month reached an agreement that Aries 
  wasn't doing the same thing as hubs at all,
That aries was a key manager and powerful agent, and the hubwas 
  more about secure access of data
  ....as we get to this point, we are realizing we are more 
  aligned than not, we have momentum but need to work together, 
  almost never seen a succesful server implementation come out of 
  the W3C
  ...Would love people's feedback
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Hubs vs agents one problem is that many 
  haven't seen the outcome of that so probably a lot of people 
  haven't seen that information the goal of whatever we do here is 
  that we want it to be complimentary
  ...should keep conversation going
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Want to address daniel's comment, for those 
  who haven't seen, context is discussion got started by an email 
  about an early in progress data hubs spec, which daniel pointed 
  out hey the aires and hyperledger folks were already working on 
  this we don't want extra steps, but
Drummond Reed: I strongly disagree that DIF is a "fork" of W3C. 
  DIF was formed to tackle work that wasn't even going on at W3C.
Kaliya Young: This forums - both DIF and Aires are writing CODE - 
  W3C does specs
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  There is certainly a middle path, both sides 
  have merits, probably the organizers of all these communities owe 
  a better communicated vision
Adrian Gropper:  This is a primary interest, i have found it 
  incredibly difficult to follow the differences between the DIF 
  and Aries, would like to stress the need for us to dedicate a 
  call and get allthe people wanting to do something about this to 
  talk about it in one place t one time, I do't see any reason to 
  have competing solutions, it's too early days
Samantha Mathews Chase:  Keen interest in solving by having a 
  cred that should work across pods. Shift convo from hypothetical 
  arguments to a concrete use case [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton 
  Duffy]
Samantha Mathews Chase:  Focus on interoperability around a 
  specific use case [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Adrian Gropper: The HIE of One project has been a consistent use 
  case for self-sovereign agents
Bill Barnhill: +1 For concrete real world case studies of 
  identity ecosystem standards adoption and implementation
Dmitri Zagidulin: +1, My opinion only, not Digital Bazaar
Manu Sporny:  I believe dmitri is speaking on his own behalf, 
  that is not the opinion of digital bazaar, that's at a higher 
  level, its not what the spec is about, as daniel mentioned, I 
  spoke with him with many of the people close to the subject, this 
  seems out of the blue but oit's taken years, we have taken a lot 
  of the information and we are absolutely trying to collaborate 
  and bring  this specs together in areas of agreement, better to 
  focus on where we are [CUT]
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I can't hear
I can't hear very well
Heather Vescent: There is a child making noise in the back.
Manu Sporny: Officially, as a representative of Digital Bazaar, 
  we are supportive of DIF being able to do things and work in ways 
  that W3C cannot... and that's useful to the ecosystem... we need 
  to work together... same goes for Hyperledger Aries, RWoT, IIW, 
  etc.
Bill Gebert:  I heard two things that really could come together, 
  talk about masodon looking into DID spec, heard a perceived need 
  for a concrete real world example, wouldn't officially be a part 
  of CCG but could be informed by our work
..Please reach out if interested
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/18
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  #18 JWT crypto suite spec
..Looking for someone in DIF community to do this, i can at 
  least help with examples, assigned it to myself and reach out to 
  DIF and find good examples to refer to
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues/76
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/bikeshed_instructions.html
..Lastly, ease of writing spec, wanted to flag purposing closing 
  it out, added documentation, write spec text just in markdown
..Caveat, it's not a silver bullet, had questions about metadata 
  tags, looked through ccg spec and realized we aren't consistent, 
  things don't have to be perfect, bikeshed does a decent job, good 
  way to start, good for notes and commentaryy, give it a try

Topic: Amira

Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/amira/
Joe Andrieu: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/amira
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  We don't need to take much time to segue 
  into the DID WG Charter call. We can keep that as short as you 
  want. [scribe assist by Drummond Reed]
Joe Andrieu:  The repo part of it, very cool kim thanks for 
  Bikeshed
Joe Andrieu:  Amira is about an immigrant worker achieving her 
  goal of writing code in America through the process of SSI
Joe Andrieu: ?
  ...this is our first release for feedback
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/amira/
Sorry i keep getting booted off of IRC and missing huge chunks of 
  text
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/amira/blob/gh-pages/index.bs
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  You aren't editing the html file, you are 
  using a bikeshed file
Joe Andrieu:  There are a bunch of edits in html i need to move 
  over, what do i do to trigger from the bikeshed
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Those are in the instructions, I haven't 
  done any pooling aorund that yet
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/w3c-ccg.github.io/blob/master/bikeshed_instructions.md
Running bikeshed is a python command, not an ideal end solution 
  for people who dont want to use command line tools
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Might also want to add some informtion or 
  pull requests to guide people to the right information
Adrian Gropper: @Bbarnhill what's your email?
Bill Barnhill: W.a.barnhill@gmail.com
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Let's see what feedback we get
Christopher Allen:  Advantages of editing markdown is that it's 
  easier to write, lots of tools, easier to see revisions and what 
  they were about, I'd like to see us continue trying the markdown 
  thing
Bill Barnhill: Planning on doing a quick run at AWS lambda 
  Bikeshed pipeline this coming week. Notes on approach are in my 
  last comment in the issue.  Main problem is no round tripping 
  from HTML back to Bikeshed for those who want to edit HTML 
  directly
  ...to my Q item, question for the commuity, Amira 1.0 has gone 
  through some review, it does inform things like the BTCR method 
  and other use cases, there is talk of taking it to a 2.0 stage?
  ...is it best to have people in the community review or if we 
  should take it to another level
Christopher Allen:  Inviting people to say "i think it would be 
  cool if..."
Adrian Gropper:  About amira, i would like to advance work on 
  reputation, maybe starting with a topic paper at rebooting and 
  chat at IIW, curious as to what extent the Amira use case wants 
  to incorporate reputation or not
Samantha Mathews Chase:  Now would be a good time to peer review 
  before going into reputation [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton 
  Duffy]
Kaliya Young: I would recommend actually getting a group that 
  actually works with refugees and marginalized groups to review.
Kaliya Young: The fact that is not being spoken is the 
  contributions and perspective the one woman of color who worked 
  on this were actively pushed out of the paper.
Joe Andrieu:  We are open for feedback now, let me know if you 
  have a more formal process in mind, and yes to Agropper we are 
  open to discussing reputation
Heather Vescent: +1 Kaliya's point
Kaliya Young: I said it in chat
Kaliya Young: That is enough
Bill Barnhill: +Much to identitywoman on getting a refugee org to 
  review, especially with us using that cultural identity in the 
  lifecycle doc.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Note: we won't get to DID WG charter
Heather Vescent: I witnessed the derailment of this particular 
  paper and it was very concerning.
Heather Vescent: I also do not think it's a point of order to 
  communicate in IRC vs speaking.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Clarification post-meeting: It is a point of 
  order, and chairs will ensure this is clear in subsequent 
  meetings
Drummond Reed: So Kim, lets just make sure that at the end of the 
  call we can explain that we're going to continue it to have the 
  DID WG Charter discussion.
Christopher Allen: Amira isn't a refugee. Joram is.

Received on Friday, 5 July 2019 04:22:15 UTC