[MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2018-08-14 12pm ET

Thanks to Markus Sabadello for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2018-08-14/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2018-08-14

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2018Aug/0056.html
Topics:
  1. introductions and re-introductions
  2. announcements and reminders
  3. Progress on Current Action Items
  4. Progress on current action items
  5. Work items
  6. Jolocom
Action Items:
  1. review Sovrin's PR
Organizer:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy and Joe Andrieu and Christopher Allen
Scribe:
  Markus Sabadello
Present:
  Christopher Allen, Markus Sabadello, Heather Vescent, Adrian 
  Gropper, Chris Webber, Dave Longley, Ganesh Annan, Matt Stone, 
  Chris Boscolo, Mike Lodder, Jeff Orgel, Kaliya Young, Kayode 
  Ezike, Bohdan Andriyiv, Dan Burnett, Alberto Elias, Kim Hamilton 
  Duffy, Manu Sporny, Joe Andrieu, Benjamin Young, Lucas Parker, 
  Nate Otto
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2018-08-14/audio.ogg

Chris Boscolo: Could we add a topic of switching to a more 
  reliable audio solution for this call?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LkqZ10z7FeV3EgMIQEJ9achEYMzy1d_2S90Q_lQ0y8M/edit?usp=sharing
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/w3c-ccg.github.io/blob/master/irc_ref.md
Markus Sabadello is scribing.
Cat: meow
Dan Burnett:  VCWG has sent request for review
Introductions and re-introductions?
Matt stone: co-chair of VCWG, had hiatus from CCG, maybe a year

Topic: introductions and re-introductions

Alberto Elias: Hi

Topic: announcements and reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
Alberto Elias: I am trying to connect to sip:ccg@96.89.14.196 
  without success, is that the correct address?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  This Friday is Scribe training, will be 
  scribed and recorded; join if you're interested to learn how to 
  scribe, or view recording later
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  MyData in Helsinki end of August, RWoT end 
  of September
Heather Vescent: RWOT Tickets: http://rwot7.eventbrite.com/
Kim Hamilton Duffy: http://iiw.idcommons.net
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  TPAC in Lyon Oct 23-26, same time as IIW Oct 
  23-25 in Mountain View
Heather Vescent: Better link for RWOT: 
  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-vii-fall-2018-toronto-on-ca-tickets-48527570269
Christopher Allen: (Note: #rwot topic papers due this month for 
  early bird pricing)

Topic: Progress on Current Action Items

Topic: Progress on current action items

Manu Sporny:  Do you or someone want to talk about multihash in 
  action items [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Dan Burnett:  VCWG is producing VC data model spec. on july 20th 
  request for review was sent, particularly groups listed in 
  charter for liasion
Dan Burnett: Link to request email: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2018Jul/0045.html
Alberto Elias: I am trying to connect to sip:ccg@96.89.14.196 
  without success, is that the correct address?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Can someone assist?
Dan Burnett:  Asking for one or more people from CCG to review VC 
  data model spec, preferably people who are not yet very familiar 
  with it
Alberto Elias: The page closes on its own
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22action+item%22
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Anything to report for current action items?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/community/blob/master/work_items.md

Topic: Work items

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  DID engagement spreadsheet is done
Christopher Allen:  Regarding the Work items; leads for all of 
  these should let the CCG know status.
Christopher Allen:  When work is done on one of those, they can 
  be published as a W3C "report" of the CCG
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  What's the current status of the DID work 
  item?
Christopher Allen:  One of the things that happened was that a 
  team from Sovrin did a PR on the DID spec
Christopher Allen:  One problem was that that was a very large PR 
  addressing many issues, some very small, some very significant; 
  makes it hard to review
Christopher Allen:  Encourage people who make PRs to break them 
  up into small pieces
Mike Lodder: ChristopherA are you meaning the Verifiable 
  Credentials PR?

ACTION: review Sovrin's PR

Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Should take time for Sovrin team to explain 
  reasons for the PR
Markus Sabadello:  It's on the VC spec not DID spec [scribe 
  assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
I believe ChristopherA was referring to this PR: 
  https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/208

Topic: Jolocom

Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://gist.github.com/Exulansis/903ab4a77b4173c2268f7a0ef90521ac
Mike Lodder: But there are multiple PRs for the DID spec that 
  have sat there for a few weeks including one of mine
(Trying to fix Eugeniu Rusu's connection problems)
Will try now. Sorry for the spam in the chat.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Alberto are you on the line?
Mike Lodder:  There are multiple PRs on the DID spec, put in 
  requests for reviews, waiting for those reviews
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/did-spec/pulls
Mike Lodder:  What is the best way to push those forward?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  If you're tagged as reviewer, please review; 
  if you don't have time, ask someone else to review in your stead. 
  We can also remind people on the list.
Mike Lodder:  Should i send emails to the list, or comment on 
  Github
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  If you get no reaction on Github, feel free 
  to get broader participation by sending to the list
Christopher Allen: If it lags too long, do a CG action item, as 
  it will be brought up each week
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-dinrg-coconut-shehar-bano-00
Lucas Parker: Yep
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Alberto will talk about Coconut, a threshold 
  issuance selective disclosure scheme
Alberto Elias:  Are people familiar with Coconut? should we start 
  with general introduction?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  People are familiar with the concept of 
  selective disclosure, but let's do intro do Coconut
Alberto Elias:  Anonymous credentials: Blindness means user goes 
  to authorities, provide blinded attributes on which they would 
  like to have credential on
Alberto Elias:  Authority would operate on the blinded attribute, 
  would learn only what the user would like to reveal
Alberto Elias:  2Nd aspect of Anoncreds: Linkability
Alberto Elias:  When you show credentials, or statement based on 
  it, you can do it in a way that makes it not possible to link 
  multiple showings
Alberto Elias:  Novelty of Coconut: Not just one single issuer, 
  but threshold number of authorities
Alberto Elias:  Get credential from multiple authorities, then 
  locally consolidate to single credential
Alberto Elias:  Authorities don't need to communicate with each 
  other when issuing
Alberto Elias:  Big difference with other scheme is this 
  threshold number of authorities without communicating
Alberto Elias:  Efficiency properties: Credentials are short, and 
  they don't increase with number of attributes, or with number of 
  authorities
Alberto Elias:  Size = only 2 elliptic curve points
Alberto Elias:  Coconut is built on top of [?]
Alberto Elias: Pointcheval and Sanders and BLS Signatures
Alberto Elias:  If you have a single issuance authority, it could 
  be malicious. Support for threshold authorites addresses this 
  problem.
Mike Lodder: @Alberto can this be used with any 
  ledger/blockchain?
Alberto Elias:  Imagine a permissioned system, every node on the 
  system can be one of the Coconut authorities.
Alberto Elias:  Applications enabled by Coconut. Example 1: 
  E-Petitions
Alberto Elias:  E.g. many regions in a country can be an 
  authority. Citizen gets credentials from that authority, locally 
  aggregates it, and uses it with a smart contract to sign 
  petition.
Alberto Elias:  Smart contract verifies the credential and allows 
  the petition to be signed.
Alberto Elias:  Example application 2: Privacy [?]
Alberto Elias:  Pay coins, get credential in exchange for 
  payment.
Alberto Elias:  Implemented and tested by EU project Decode.
http://decodeproject.eu/
Alberto Elias:  Verification time is very competitive with other 
  credential types.
Christopher Allen:  Very important to talk about this tech. We 
  make assumptions that while we like decentrized technology, we 
  often issue centrally.
Christopher Allen:  With this, issuance can be done in a group. 
  Could have impact on what we're working on.
Christopher Allen: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/data-minimization
Christopher Allen:  Would love to see this team comment on the 
  Data Minimization work item.
Christopher Allen:  Got some comments from CL signature 
  community, would like to get more feedback.
Christopher Allen: https://w3c-dvcg.github.io/
Christopher Allen:  This can have consequences for VC data model, 
  JSON-LD canonicalization, signature schemes.
Christopher Allen:  This is pairing crypto? Are you using any 
  other special cryptography requirements?
Alberto Elias:  We need pairings.
Alberto Elias:  This is a "pairing-friendly" curve, nothins 
  special.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  In the pilot program, I was curious are the 
  selective presentations being used in practice? What sort of 
  tooling exists for this?
Christopher Allen: (This presentation is also interesting in 
  combination with last week's "Proof of Personhood")
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  How will receipients end up using this? 
  Mobile wallet? What does the interaction look like? What 
  challenges do you have in the pilot?
Alberto Elias:  Decode project works with city council of 
  Barcelona, they are implementing an E-Petition platform. There 
  will be a JavaScript open-source implementation.
Alberto Elias:  There will be a JS client, app, possibly a 
  browser. Backend (authority signing) will also be in JS.
Alberto Elias:  Will proably be published in Decode repo.
Chris Webber:  Seems like you thought a lot about workflows. Gov 
  may issue prescription drugs?
Alberto Elias:  If you want to give doctor ability to sign 
  prescription, then the doctor is the issuer.
Chris Webber:  What are your thoughts related to government use 
  of this? E.g. gov issues right to issue prescriptions. Do you 
  have a mechanism for revocation?
Alberto Elias:  Every doctor would act as a single authority, 
  there is no need for group authority.
Alberto Elias:  You can include expiration date in credentials.
(Jolocom still having trouble connecting)
Joe Andrieu: Prescription shopping
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Patient may try to get prescriptions from 
  multiple doctors.
Alberto Elias:  Not sure if this is a use case for group 
  authority.
Chris Webber: That's the idea, but it also seems that there's 
  also the credential for the doctor itself to issue a prescription
Alberto Elias:  This is about unlinkability in the issuance 
  process.
Chris Webber: And what if the doctor is abusing that power
Chris Webber: It's not important, was just curious
Chris Webber:  Have thought about a workflows where one issuer is 
  malicious
Chris Webber:  Have you thought about a workflow where one issuer 
  is malicious
Alberto Elias:  Will think about it and get back to you
Mike Lodder:  At Sovrin we've been experimenting with something 
  like this.
Mike Lodder:  You said this will work with any pairing-friendly 
  curve?
Alberto Elias:  Pairing type 3
Mike Lodder:  License is BSD3, could this be changed to Apache2 
  so we could use it?
Alberto Elias:  Absolutely, can change it right away
Mike Lodder:  When you do the blind signature, do you do 2-party 
  computation?
Alberto Elias:  No, this would imply communication between 
  authorities. We only do communication between authorities during 
  issuance of keys, but not later during issuance process.
Christopher Allen:  We invite you (Alberto) to join this group as 
  a member.
Christopher Allen:  Let's explore how proof-of-personhood could 
  be combined with this.
Adrian Gropper: What is Alberto's email?
Christopher Allen:  E.g. proof-of-personhood could be very 
  relevant for e-petitions in the Barcelona project.
Christopher Allen:  Would be good to discuss at RWoT
Chris_boscolo: For blockchain integration, what does this 
  require?
Joe Andrieu: Note to all: next week, we'll be reviewing the 
  submitted use cases we haven't yet taken time for. If you have a 
  use case you'd like considered, please share with the group by 
  email.
Alberto Elias:  Each blockchain node would be a Coconut 
  authority.
Alberto Elias:  This can also work with a sharded system.
Christopher Allen: (It sounds like they are doing sybil 
  resistance by using a permissioned blockchain  — is that true? 
  There may be other ways.)
Alberto Elias:  With permissionless system, this is harder. Each 
  time the number of nodes changes, you would have to re-generate 
  keys.
Thanks!
Adrian Gropper:  Can you apply the e-petition architecture to a 
  reputation system?
Alberto Elias:  This sounds like a valid use case, we may be able 
  to apply these credentials to reputation. Not sure if this is 
  covered in literature.
Christopher Allen: (How to do an anonymous reputation system that 
  is sybil resistant is a big use case)
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Drabiv
Bohdan Andriyiv:  Is this applicable only to blockchain? Why 
  would authorities in the real world need to agree on what they 
  issue?
Alberto Elias:  Yes this uses zero-knowledge proofs.
Alberto Elias:  Partial credential has the same structure as full 
  credential. This also works in cases where there is only one 
  authority. This is not limited to blockchain.
Christopher Allen: Thank you!
Joe Andrieu: Cheers!

Received on Saturday, 15 September 2018 02:56:52 UTC