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Re: Question: WebAuthn announcement -- relation to DIDs?

From: Mark Chipman <markchipman@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 06:34:28 -0600
Message-ID: <CAKEHajW1fwJB99HU=Qcc5L8SzdNDU=nca9Q3WgJSb-6NRx91Fw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>
Cc: Adam Powers <adam@fidoalliance.org>, Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Re: " Interesting. This "can't be used across multiple sites", as I
understand it, was a major reason why Verifiable Credentials and then DID
have been developed -- to give the user/owner the control over their own
identity data, so they can move from site to site and their data isn't
locked in by a single vendor system.

So, this is still a major problem; and one which, perhaps, many vendors in
the FIDO alliance would rather wasn't solved? Because I think it's fair to
say that at least some of the large corporations involved have a business
model that depends on having that data all to themselves."

I couldn't agree more with Steven's point!... especially this: " perhaps,
many vendors in the FIDO alliance would rather wasn't solved?"  We need to
avoid vendor lock-in.

- Mark Chipman

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Steven Rowat <steven_rowat@sunshine.net>
wrote:

> On 2018-04-12 11:17 PM, Adam Powers wrote:
>
>> Great point, here are the links from my presentation (there were a couple
>> other presentations as well):
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1LyYp_SZpqboIPfUa1lo9
>> zKtNv9SIv-5I?usp=sharing
>>
>> I think the only real problem we encountered was that (by design)
>> WebAuthn uses "origin" to bind authentication to a specific service. It's a
>> solvable problem, it will just take some conversation to figure out the
>> pros and cons of some of the solutions that were mentioned. At the very
>> least, it's implementable / demo-able now but the same DID can't be used
>> across multiple sites until the origin issue gets solved.
>>
>
> Interesting. This "can't be used across multiple sites", as I understand
> it, was a major reason why Verifiable Credentials and then DID have been
> developed -- to give the user/owner the control over their own identity
> data, so they can move from site to site and their data isn't locked in by
> a single vendor system.
>
> So, this is still a major problem; and one which, perhaps, many vendors in
> the FIDO alliance would rather wasn't solved? Because I think it's fair to
> say that at least some of the large corporations involved have a business
> model that depends on having that data all to themselves.
>
> And it seems, based on the presentation linked above, that this is
> relatively easy to solve, technically; or if not easy, at least doable.
>
> Yet will it be done? Because it doesn't seem easy to predict how it will
> all play out politically.
>
> IMO that may depend on there being sufficient demand for DID that the
> WebAuthn can't ignore it, even if some of those supporting WebAuthn would
> actually rather DID just failed. ;-)
>
>
> Steven Rowat
>
>
>
>> On April 12, 2018 at 10:19:06 AM, Andrew Hughes (
>> andrewhughes3000@gmail.com <mailto:andrewhughes3000@gmail.com>) wrote:
>>
>> At the Internet Identity Workshop (IIW) last week in Mountain View, there
>>> were some sessions discussing exactly this topic - how should WebAuthn and
>>> Verifiable Credentials and Credentials Community Group work together -
>>> leaders from each of the efforts were in attendance.
>>>
>>> andrew.
>>>
>>> *Andrew Hughes *CISM CISSP
>>> *In Turn Information Management Consulting*
>>>
>>> o  +1 650.209.7542
>>> m +1 250.888.9474
>>> 1249 Palmer Road, Victoria, BC V8P 2H8
>>> AndrewHughes3000@gmail.com <mailto:AndrewHughes3000@gmail.com>
>>> ca.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-hughes/a/58/682/ <
>>> http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-hughes/a/58/682/>
>>> *Identity Management | IT Governance | Information Security *
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Adam Powers <adam@fidoalliance.org
>>> <mailto:adam@fidoalliance.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     The quickest summary: WebAuthn is a way of generating public key
>>>     pairs, storing a public key on a server and the private key in
>>>     an "authenticator", and later using that key pair for
>>>     authentication to a service.
>>>
>>>     Insofar as DID is storing a public key in a DID document, that
>>>     public key can be generated by WebAuthn and stored by DID. The
>>>     most obvious overlap between DID and WebAuthn would be using
>>>     WebAuthn as the mechanism for DIDAuth -- although there is still
>>>     some work that needs to happen there to define and align the
>>>     specs. In my perspective, they should be complimentary and not
>>>     competitive.
>>>
>>>     I hope that helps.
>>>
>>>     Adam Powers,
>>>     Technical Director, FIDO Alliance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     On April 12, 2018 at 9:24:03 AM, Steven Rowat
>>>     (steven_rowat@sunshine.net <mailto:steven_rowat@sunshine.net>)
>>>
>>>     wrote:
>>>
>>>     Greetings,
>>>>
>>>>     The Guardian yesterday had a story of what appears to be a major
>>>>     announcement about how WebAuthn will replace passwords:
>>>>
>>>>     https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/11/passwords
>>>> -webauthn-new-web-standard-designed-replace-login-method
>>>>     <https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/11/password
>>>> s-webauthn-new-web-standard-designed-replace-login-method>
>>>>
>>>>     This included a quote showing that this is a W3C project:
>>>>
>>>>     “WebAuthn will change the way that people access the Web,” said
>>>>     Jeff
>>>>     Jaffe, chief executive of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), the
>>>>     body that controls web standards."
>>>>
>>>>     And after looking at the recent API spec itself, I see that it's a
>>>>     FIDO project, and so supported by Google, Microsoft, Paypal,
>>>>     and also
>>>>     Mozilla:
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.w3.org/TR/2018/CR-webauthn-20180320/
>>>>     <http://www.w3.org/TR/2018/CR-webauthn-20180320/>
>>>>
>>>>     My Question:
>>>>
>>>>     Is there any expected or known relationship between WebAuthn
>>>>     and the
>>>>     use of DIDs? ie., Can WebAuthn be used with DIDs? Will the
>>>>     uptake of
>>>>     WebAuthn preclude or inhibit the use of DIDs?
>>>>
>>>>     ie., Are DID Docs and WebAuthn in competition, or are they
>>>>     complementary?
>>>>
>>>>     Steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>


-- 
- Mark
Received on Saturday, 14 April 2018 12:34:52 UTC

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