Re: Credentials CG charter vote result

Tim, I ask that you drop the sarcasm and disrespect. I've spent a lot of
effort making this information discoverable and (I believe) have made
improvements. The community values your positive contributions, so I ask in
spirit of collaboration that you provide concrete, constructive
suggestions, submit PRs, or open github issues for any concerns you would
like the chairs to address.

That's all from me. Best,
Kim



On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 5:11 AM Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Whats your suggestion to make it discoverable?
>
> Honestly.  IDK.  I"ll put in my presentations how i have to refer people
> to either the non-discoverable link and this list traffic; and/or the
> archive.org versioning to track history.
>
> far simpler.  cheers.  i'm sure it'll be blunt enough for others too.
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 23:04 Kim Hamilton Duffy <kim@learningmachine.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > I reverted the page with the original charter to the previous state and
>> referenced it from the latest:
>> https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/charter-20140808/
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 11:27 PM Timothy Holborn <
>> timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Kim.  can you point to the old charter?
>>> https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/page/5/  ?  I still can't find
>>> it?
>>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 16:54 Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 16:51 Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kim,
>>>>>
>>>>> apologies if the meta was difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spec needs to support URIs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> oh.
>>>>
>>>> Given http-signatures[1] is now in a different group[2]. perhaps it
>>>> doesn't matter.
>>>>
>>>> (guess it looks a bit like a backdoor listing, technically - i'm not
>>>> sure it matters.)
>>>>
>>>> Tim.
>>>>
>>>> [1]  https://w3c-dvcg.github.io/
>>>> [2] https://www.w3.org/community/digital-verification/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> more later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim.H.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 16:05 Kim Hamilton Duffy <
>>>>> kim@learningmachine.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Tim,
>>>>>> Could you be precise about your concerns? I value directness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Kim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:53 PM Timothy Holborn <
>>>>>> timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers.  We've been doing some work in the area, indeed i'm doing
>>>>>>> some work on it right now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> seeAlso: (not exhaustively)
>>>>>>> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1437
>>>>>>> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1525
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and notably also:
>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/Talks/2001/12-semweb-offices/all.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> therein also; is the underlying assumption of a URI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 14:40 Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing those documents. Based upon the first
>>>>>>>> problem that you indicate in your discussion, pertaining to types of
>>>>>>>> articles, you might be interested in:
>>>>>>>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/verifiable-news/journalistic-schemas.html
>>>>>>>> and https://schema.org/docs/news.html .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* ‎Friday‎, ‎October‎ ‎20‎, ‎2017 ‎9‎:‎24‎ ‎PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Kim Hamilton Duffy
>>>>>>>> <kim@learningmachine.com>, public-credentials@w3.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and FWIW - Verifiable News?  i mean...  really?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> don't get me wrong.  it's an area i've been working on for some
>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#
>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQQLPzTjZ8JuI1ZPy-xx5KOFffroV9qEJGx7LllD57i3aEp-CpcH9s1tblgAwT2hU2H5uLtYKGnT7s5/pub> -
>>>>>>>> indeed you'll even see the section i put in there "Linked-Data,
>>>>>>>> Ontologies and Verifiable Claims"
>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#heading=h.19e53f97toth>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> anyhow.  I just...  dunno.  Will get back to you.  Diversity is
>>>>>>>> important...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 12:05 Timothy Holborn <
>>>>>>>> timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll go through and do a proper review and respond more
>>>>>>>>> effectively; noting,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. The call schedule is currently for the early hours of my
>>>>>>>>> morning.  I believe there were studies (can't find the link) that showed it
>>>>>>>>> doesn't matter where people are in the world, scheduling global activities
>>>>>>>>> for participation at 2am in the morning generally doesn't work for people.
>>>>>>>>>  I guess, that's why the time of the call is not at that hour for you.   I
>>>>>>>>> believe there were two issues about 2am calls, a. attendance and b. people
>>>>>>>>> are grumpy / not at their best ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've been trying to do more advocacy and related work here
>>>>>>>>> locally; and as such, had to make choices.  (believing also, the work was
>>>>>>>>> in trusted hands ;) ).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. The older materials weren't archived or available via some form
>>>>>>>>> of version control; it was just all updated.   So, here am i looking for
>>>>>>>>> the older references and the URIs, far from cool, said a very different
>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. Someone else asked about commenting on the RWOT Spec and the
>>>>>>>>> suggestion was that it would be better if only those who attended the RWoT
>>>>>>>>> event comment.  :(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4. I then did a review, to see whether my other core assumptions
>>>>>>>>> about the work on VCs (ie: verifiable claim documents) was proceeding as
>>>>>>>>> expected; and saw a bunch of stuff that well..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all very unexpected.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 'identity' is too often over simplified and certainly also the
>>>>>>>>> subject of actors seeking to usurp for commercial gains. to do otherwise is
>>>>>>>>> so very, very complicated.  interestingly these issues do not appear to
>>>>>>>>> negatively effect the 'identity' of legal persons ("persona ficta")
>>>>>>>>> anywhere near the prevalence of problems for natural persons.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5. HTTP-SIGNATURES in relation to RDF documents was / is a
>>>>>>>>> beautifully simple solution to a variety of problems. It provided something
>>>>>>>>> a WACd WebID otherwise could not do.  Whilst there are still an array of
>>>>>>>>> issues about how to ensure the integrity of that document (and its secured
>>>>>>>>> references), the previous charter explicitly stated "identity credentials"
>>>>>>>>> and "http signatures"; both are lost in the new version.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also see the works in OASIS (where some of it started from
>>>>>>>>> memory) and some other dynamics which whilst i'm fully supportive of people
>>>>>>>>> doing good things however they seek to;  felt it wasn't necessarily where i
>>>>>>>>> was going - and the things i most cared about, seemed..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> well.  as a consequence of my flagging concerns, some changes have
>>>>>>>>> already happened.  so i guess, some of my points must to some-degree have
>>>>>>>>> been taken into consideration.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i'll have another, better look into it.   I've been busy on
>>>>>>>>> related works with some assumptions in-place, that i'll check are are ok.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As noted; its my view that we need to ensure diversity, which is a
>>>>>>>>> very important attribute of identity, depending on the definition used.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 00:02 Manu Sporny <
>>>>>>>>> msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/19/2017 05:23 PM, Kim Hamilton Duffy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > * <https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/charter-20140808/>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > As for the state of the previous work items, they seem to map to
>>>>>>>>>> > more refined work items in progress now (e.g. DIDs) but I'm not
>>>>>>>>>> > familiar with the history, so I'll let someone else weigh in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the general take away is that the group discussed our new
>>>>>>>>>> charter for multiple months, debated it on the calls, sent
>>>>>>>>>> minutes out
>>>>>>>>>> related to the debate to the mailing list, commented on the
>>>>>>>>>> charter via
>>>>>>>>>> Google Docs, discussed it at various RWoT events... net net -
>>>>>>>>>> lots of
>>>>>>>>>> discussion and debate went into the current charter before it was
>>>>>>>>>> accepted per the CG process.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you flagged this at WWW2017 also.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The new charter we have now had consensus when it was passed at
>>>>>>>>>> the time
>>>>>>>>>> (and I suspect still has broad consensus).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That info should be added to the new charter as it was for the
>>>>>>>>> last one. (ideally, without unnecessarily deleting history).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -- manu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu
>>>>>>>>>> Sporny)
>>>>>>>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>> blog: Rebalancing How the Web is Built
>>>>>>>>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2016/rebalancing/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kim Hamilton Duffy
>>>>>> CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
>>>>>> Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
>>>>>> 400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139
>>>>>>
>>>>>> kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
>>>>>> 425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>> Kim Hamilton Duffy
>> CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
>> Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
>> 400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139
>>
>> kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
>> 425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com
>>
> --
Kim Hamilton Duffy
CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139

kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com