Re: Credentials CG charter vote result

> I reverted the page with the original charter to the previous state and
referenced it from the latest:
https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/charter-20140808/
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 11:27 PM Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Kim.  can you point to the old charter?
> https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/page/5/  ?  I still can't find
> it?
>
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 16:54 Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 16:51 Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Kim,
>>>
>>> apologies if the meta was difficult.
>>>
>>> Spec needs to support URIs.
>>>
>>
>> oh.
>>
>> Given http-signatures[1] is now in a different group[2]. perhaps it
>> doesn't matter.
>>
>> (guess it looks a bit like a backdoor listing, technically - i'm not sure
>> it matters.)
>>
>> Tim.
>>
>> [1]  https://w3c-dvcg.github.io/
>> [2] https://www.w3.org/community/digital-verification/
>>
>>
>>> more later.
>>>
>>> Tim.H.
>>>
>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 16:05 Kim Hamilton Duffy <kim@learningmachine.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Tim,
>>>> Could you be precise about your concerns? I value directness.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Kim
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:53 PM Timothy Holborn <
>>>> timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers.  We've been doing some work in the area, indeed i'm doing some
>>>>> work on it right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> seeAlso: (not exhaustively)
>>>>> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1437
>>>>> - https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1525
>>>>>
>>>>> and notably also:
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/Talks/2001/12-semweb-offices/all.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> therein also; is the underlying assumption of a URI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 14:40 Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski@hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for sharing those documents. Based upon the first problem that
>>>>>> you indicate in your discussion, pertaining to types of articles, you might
>>>>>> be interested in:
>>>>>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/verifiable-news/journalistic-schemas.html
>>>>>> and https://schema.org/docs/news.html .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
>>>>>> *Sent:* ‎Friday‎, ‎October‎ ‎20‎, ‎2017 ‎9‎:‎24‎ ‎PM
>>>>>> *To:* Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Kim Hamilton Duffy
>>>>>> <kim@learningmachine.com>, public-credentials@w3.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and FWIW - Verifiable News?  i mean...  really?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't get me wrong.  it's an area i've been working on for some time
>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQQLPzTjZ8JuI1ZPy-xx5KOFffroV9qEJGx7LllD57i3aEp-CpcH9s1tblgAwT2hU2H5uLtYKGnT7s5/pub> -
>>>>>> indeed you'll even see the section i put in there "Linked-Data,
>>>>>> Ontologies and Verifiable Claims"
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPghC4ra6QLhaHhW8QvPJRMKGEXT7KaZtG_7s5-UQrw/edit#heading=h.19e53f97toth>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> anyhow.  I just...  dunno.  Will get back to you.  Diversity is
>>>>>> important...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 12:05 Timothy Holborn <
>>>>>> timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll go through and do a proper review and respond more effectively;
>>>>>>> noting,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. The call schedule is currently for the early hours of my
>>>>>>> morning.  I believe there were studies (can't find the link) that showed it
>>>>>>> doesn't matter where people are in the world, scheduling global activities
>>>>>>> for participation at 2am in the morning generally doesn't work for people.
>>>>>>>  I guess, that's why the time of the call is not at that hour for you.   I
>>>>>>> believe there were two issues about 2am calls, a. attendance and b. people
>>>>>>> are grumpy / not at their best ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been trying to do more advocacy and related work here locally;
>>>>>>> and as such, had to make choices.  (believing also, the work was in trusted
>>>>>>> hands ;) ).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. The older materials weren't archived or available via some form
>>>>>>> of version control; it was just all updated.   So, here am i looking for
>>>>>>> the older references and the URIs, far from cool, said a very different
>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Someone else asked about commenting on the RWOT Spec and the
>>>>>>> suggestion was that it would be better if only those who attended the RWoT
>>>>>>> event comment.  :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. I then did a review, to see whether my other core assumptions
>>>>>>> about the work on VCs (ie: verifiable claim documents) was proceeding as
>>>>>>> expected; and saw a bunch of stuff that well..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> all very unexpected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'identity' is too often over simplified and certainly also the
>>>>>>> subject of actors seeking to usurp for commercial gains. to do otherwise is
>>>>>>> so very, very complicated.  interestingly these issues do not appear to
>>>>>>> negatively effect the 'identity' of legal persons ("persona ficta")
>>>>>>> anywhere near the prevalence of problems for natural persons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5. HTTP-SIGNATURES in relation to RDF documents was / is a
>>>>>>> beautifully simple solution to a variety of problems. It provided something
>>>>>>> a WACd WebID otherwise could not do.  Whilst there are still an array of
>>>>>>> issues about how to ensure the integrity of that document (and its secured
>>>>>>> references), the previous charter explicitly stated "identity credentials"
>>>>>>> and "http signatures"; both are lost in the new version.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also see the works in OASIS (where some of it started from memory)
>>>>>>> and some other dynamics which whilst i'm fully supportive of people doing
>>>>>>> good things however they seek to;  felt it wasn't necessarily where i was
>>>>>>> going - and the things i most cared about, seemed..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well.  as a consequence of my flagging concerns, some changes have
>>>>>>> already happened.  so i guess, some of my points must to some-degree have
>>>>>>> been taken into consideration.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i'll have another, better look into it.   I've been busy on related
>>>>>>> works with some assumptions in-place, that i'll check are are ok.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As noted; its my view that we need to ensure diversity, which is a
>>>>>>> very important attribute of identity, depending on the definition used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 at 00:02 Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/19/2017 05:23 PM, Kim Hamilton Duffy wrote:
>>>>>>>> > * <https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/charter-20140808/>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > As for the state of the previous work items, they seem to map to
>>>>>>>> > more refined work items in progress now (e.g. DIDs) but I'm not
>>>>>>>> > familiar with the history, so I'll let someone else weigh in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the general take away is that the group discussed our new
>>>>>>>> charter for multiple months, debated it on the calls, sent minutes
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> related to the debate to the mailing list, commented on the charter
>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>> Google Docs, discussed it at various RWoT events... net net - lots
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> discussion and debate went into the current charter before it was
>>>>>>>> accepted per the CG process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you flagged this at WWW2017 also.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The new charter we have now had consensus when it was passed at the
>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>> (and I suspect still has broad consensus).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That info should be added to the new charter as it was for the last
>>>>>>> one. (ideally, without unnecessarily deleting history).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- manu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>>>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>>>>> blog: Rebalancing How the Web is Built
>>>>>>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2016/rebalancing/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>> Kim Hamilton Duffy
>>>> CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
>>>> Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
>>>> 400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139
>>>>
>>>> kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
>>>> 425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com
>>>>
>>> --
Kim Hamilton Duffy
CTO & Principal Architect Learning Machine
Co-chair W3C Credentials Community Group
400 Main Street Building E19-732, Cambridge, MA 02139

kim@learningmachine.com | kimhd@mit.edu
425-652-0150 | LearningMachine.com