[MINUTES] W3C Credentials CG Call - 2017-08-01 12pm ET

Thanks to Lionel Wolberger for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:

http://w3c.github.io/vctf/meetings/2017-08-01/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

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Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2017-08-01

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2017Jul/0040.html
Topics:
  1. Action Items
  2. Introductions and Re-introductions
  3. Update on Community Group Name
  4. Revising the Mission Statement
Organizer:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy and Christopher Allen
Scribe:
  Lionel Wolberger
Present:
  Lionel Wolberger, Christopher Allen, Drummond Reed, Kim Hamilton 
  Duffy, Dave Longley, David I. Lehn, Manu Sporny, Ryan Grant, Joe 
  Andrieu, Frederico Sportini, Dan Burnett, Moses Ma, Chris Webber, 
  Adrian Gropper, Nathan George, Adam Migus
Audio:
  http://w3c.github.io/vctf/meetings/2017-08-01/audio.ogg

Ryan Grant: http://irc.w3.org/?channels=vctf
Lionel Wolberger is scribing.
Christopher Allen:  First up - Review agenda, any changes?
No changes.

Topic: Action Items

Christopher Allen:  Moving documents and resources
Christopher Allen:  Updating credentials mission statement
Christopher Allen:  Draft action items
Christopher Allen:  We needed to choose a CG name, we've done 
  that.
Christopher Allen:  We need a new mission statement.
Drummond Reed: What is the new name?
ChristopherA submitted new mission statement for review.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Mission statement, current draft: 
  https://goo.gl/sNs2vl
Dave Longley: Drummond, no new name; the name will remain "The 
  Credentials Community Group"

Topic: Introductions and Re-introductions

No one new for introductions, on to re-introductions.
David I. Lehn:  Hi, I'm Dave Lehn from Digital Bazaar. I am 
  involved in doing a number of implementations around Verifiable 
  Claims, Linked Data Signatures, Web Payments, and the related 
  cryptography suites. I've been involved in this work for over 7 
  years and will continue to support the group by doing 
  implementations for the technologies incubated here.

Topic: Update on Community Group Name

Christopher Allen:  Regarding name change: after discussion, 
  decided not to change the name.
Drummond Reed: Okay, I just didn't know that the "new name" was.
Manu Sporny:  Fundamentally, this group started as the 
  Credentials Community Group and only changed to Verifiable Claims 
  after pressure from some larger organizations at W3C. In 
  hindsight, it was a mistake to do this as "Verifiable Claims" has 
  led to a number of confusing discussions related to what we're 
  really doing here - which is creating credentialing technology. 
  It was asserted by the "security community" that "credentials" 
  were "usernames, passwords, and facebook logins" and didn't cover 
  things like digital drivers licenses, educational certificates, 
  and other concepts. Now that the group has more cryptographers, 
  security advocates, and privacy advocates, it is clear that the 
  group would prefer to keep the "credential" wording and thus we 
  will have to circle back around to the organizations objecting to 
  let them know that we've explored this topic in depth and have 
  come to the conclusion that the group is really involved in the 
  creation of credential technology.
Drummond Reed: I'm good with "Credentials Community Group".
Manu Sporny:  Currently there are security, privacy experienced 
  people in the group now so they can reflect the 
  security-understanding of the word 'credential'
Manu Sporny:  This community advocates for claiming the word for 
  its broad meaning outside of the limited 'credential = 
  username/pass'
Manu Sporny:  This community holds the word to refer to 
  credentials as commonly understood in the wider civic context.
Christopher Allen:  The community could be easier to discover
Manu Sporny:  Will take care of the redirects
Christopher Allen:  The document availability challenge is made 
  more difficult since the group has historically used many 
  different docs in different locations
Christopher Allen:  Need to discuss more about the signature 
  standards
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Kimhd has an action item to sort out 
  Credentials CG landing page to make it clearer where specs are, 
  etc
Ryan Grant:  Suggests a github for the documents
Manu Sporny: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/
Ryan Grant: :)
Drummond Reed: Hooray!
Manu instantly grants rgant's request!
Joe Andrieu: +1 For Manu's magic trick
Manu Sporny: We also have this site for the signature stuff: 
  https://w3c-dvcg.github.io/
Manu Sporny:  DVCG has docs in other places... manu discusses 
  need to aggregate the docs
Drummond Reed: +1 For bringing all the docs and pointers back 
  into one place - https://w3c-ccg.github.io/
Manu Sporny:  What do we do after we aggregate the docs?
Joe Andrieu: +1 To move IRC channel
Manu Sporny:  Proposed: rfc should no longer be #vctf
Christopher Allen: Acronym ccg
Manu Sporny:  Propose to go to #ccg
Drummond Reed: +1 To "ccg" IRC channel
Manu Sporny:  #Vctf will have a redirect
Christopher Allen: +1
Manu Sporny:  Credentials COmmunity Group (CCG) has been 
  accepted, so that name will be applied to chat and anywhere 
  appropriate
Drummond Reed: +1 To doing the blanket change that Manu proposes
Ryan Grant: +1
Christopher Allen: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/
Joe Andrieu: +1
Frederico Sportini: +1
Dave Longley: +1 To #ccg for IRC channel and ccg for telecon 
  bridge
Christopher Allen:  What to do about the former URL?
Christopher Allen: I'd love to see it have less, and move stuff 
  there off.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  The W3C site poses some challenges regarding 
  the control of the content, so I see it as a launching point for 
  the credentials page
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Let's see it as an entry point
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Consider using the W3C wordpress blog
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  But keep the bulk of the updates on Manu's 
  site
Christopher Allen: Manu, what about old minutes, old agenda, etc.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  After mission statement is drafted, send a 
  notification regarding the CCG name to the working group people 
  who raised concerns about our name.
Manu Sporny:  Order of operations (1) define mission statement 
  (2) contact W3C systems team to update the mission statement on 
  the W3C credentials community page (3) then notify web payments 
  and privacy interest group
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Ok
Manu Sporny:  Ok
Christopher Allen:  Differentiate between CLAIMS and CREDENTIAL 
  GROUP
Manu Sporny:  Plan to split/fork the VCTF repo for Preservation 
  of audio records
Manu Sporny:  Will maintain transparency back to 2015 into the 
  changes we've been through
Manu Sporny:  This fork will also have redirects as needed to 
  enable good accessibility
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Sounds good to me
Christopher Allen:  Kudos to Manu for all the hard work and 
  stewardship.
Christopher Allen: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kxm6yGnGAVgNTLMYft_cz2zW3c1AE8uSCy4i5A6OhG8/edit?usp=sharing
Manu Sporny: No problem - thanks to everyone else that's 
  participating and making it happen, too! :)

Topic: Revising the Mission Statement

Christopher Allen: The purpose of the Credentials Community Group 
  is to discuss, research, document, prototype, and test credential 
  storage and exchange systems for the Iinternet, to allow for the 
  standardized and interoperable creation of credentials and 
  presentation of their proofs. It focuses on a credential as a 
  verifiable assertion by an authority about a subject, entity, or 
  person, and seeks solutions for both centralized authorities and 
  self-sovereign
Christopher Allen: Identities. Its output includes [we do this 
  how? write reports? write requirements?]
Chris shared the link. Page 3 has the revised version.
Ryan Grant: Its output includes creating draft specifications and 
  test implementations suitable for further standardization
Drummond Reed: Suggests we use the phrase "both centralized, 
  federated, and decentralized entities".
Dave Longley: "Both" might need to be removed in that case :)
Dan Burnett: We cannot call it a W3C standard or a W3C 
  Recommendation
Dan Burnett: But we can call it a specification
Joe Andrieu: + 1 Federations
Moses Ma: You never use the term "reputation", is that 
  deliberate?
Drummond Reed: I think it's good to include the whole spectrum of 
  options—centralized, federated, decentralized, self-sovereign.
Joe Andrieu: +1 I like that framing of the spectrum: centralized, 
  federated, decentralized, self-sovereign
Dave Longley: Membership is bounded/enumerable
Ryan Grant:  (Adding language around output of the community)
Christopher Allen:  Made changes in the text.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Discussion. Self-sovereign identity seems 
  more critical to the recipient-side, enables longevity of claims 
  etc.
  ... the new version seems more on the sender-side.
  ... Joe can you clarify self-sovereign identity.
Christopher Allen:  Add to doc, this seems to be issuer-centric, 
  perhaps we can add more language around the bearer/holder
Drummond Reed: By "federation", I mean this definition: 
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_identity
Manu Sporny: +1 To JoeA - it feels like we're listing different 
  categories.
Drummond Reed: +1 To replacing "self-sovereign issuers" with 
  "self-sovereign identities".
Ryan Grant: Way better
Joe Andrieu: Thanks, Manu. I wasn't even sure if these earbuds 
  had a mic when we started the call. ;)
Ryan Grant:  Drummond link to federated identity is helpful.
Moses Ma:  Please address 'reputation'
Drummond Reed: I suggest changing "federation" to "federated 
  identity systems" to clear up any confusion with other meanings 
  of federation.
Christopher Allen:  Reputation is a kind of credential and should 
  be allowed for, but reputation brings many other ideas/concepts 
  along with it, and broadens the scope significantly
Drummond Reed: We could say that "The outputs of the CCG could 
  also support the development of interoperable reputation 
  systems."
Moses Ma:  Proposes defining reputation as a collection of 
  credentials
Manu Sporny:  Moses definition aligns with many discussions we 
  have had. Given that, let's focus on the credential building 
  blocks
Moses Ma:  Ok, but let's make sure the building blocks collect 
  the data needed to enable reputation.
Christopher Allen:  Let's defer that discussion
Ryan Grant: +1 Internet
Christopher Allen:  Internet vs web?
Joe Andrieu: +1 Internet
Lionel Wolberger: +1 Internet
Joe Andrieu:  Watch that capitalization ;P [scribe assist by Ryan 
  Grant]
Moses Ma: I'd be happy to lead a discussion in a month or so on 
  low level functionality in VC that can support the development of 
  robust interoperable reputation systems
Christopher Allen:  Decentralized registry v blockchains
Ryan Grant:  Correct. The Internet [scribe assist by Joe Andrieu]
Christopher Allen:  Thoughts?
Drummond Reed: We don't use the term "blockchain" or "DLT" 
  anywhere in the mission statement now.
Joe Andrieu: Not blockchains. +1 decentralized registries is 
  inclusive without being restrictive
Dave Longley: "Blockchain" is unnecessarily specific, IMO
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Agree on blockchain too specific
Chris Webber: I even think that DLT is too specific, since I'm 
  not confident using a DHT really qualifies as a DLT
Lionel Wolberger: +1 Blockchain too specific
Chris Webber: Decentralized registries is good
Adrian Gropper: I agree that reputation is much bigger than a set 
  of credentials
Lionel Wolberger:  Decentralization and immutability are the key 
  characteristics we want to go for... we don't want to be more 
  specific and say "blockchain". [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Ryan Grant: Changing my +1 to registry.  seems sufficient for 
  now.
Christopher Allen:  ...Continues reading and discussing wording 
  [see google doe for comments there] ...
Chris Webber: Btw, I'm convinced now that federation aligns with 
  the decentralized social web usage
Chris Webber: So a-ok with me
Christopher Allen:  Let's privilege terms that are more amenable 
  to search engine access
Ryan Grant: What does "incubate" add?
Moses Ma: To draw interest, we should mention more benefits?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I think experimental is redundant now
Joe Andrieu: That was amazing collaborative editing. Much 
  improved, folks.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I think we can close next week -- we seem 
  close
Drummond Reed: Yes, we can close next week
Drummond Reed: I have to leave now, sorry
Joe Andrieu: Send not to list. we can close next week
Joe Andrieu: Note to list
Manu Sporny: Yes, give us a week to marinate on it...
Drummond Reed: +1

Received on Tuesday, 1 August 2017 17:30:15 UTC