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Credentials CG Telecon Minutes for 2015-11-17

From: <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 16:04:50 -0500
Message-Id: <1447794290645.0.6536@zoe>
To: Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks to Matt Stone for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

Credentials Community Group Telecon Minutes for 2015-11-17

  1. Current Status of Task Force Proposal
  2. Focus on Use Cases
  3. ToDo Items
  Manu Sporny
  Matt Stone
  Matt Stone, Nate Otto, Manu Sporny, Alex Jackl, Shane McCarron, 
  Dave Longley, Henry Story, Gregg Kellogg, John Tibbetts, Chris 
  Webber, Rob Trainer, Stuart Sutton, Dmitriy Nesterkin, Viktor 
  Haag, Richard Varn, David I. Lehn

Matt Stone is scribing.
Nate Otto: Manu, sorry I can't stay for more than a few minutes. 
  I'm double booked. Only one item essential to update me on. I'd 
  like to participate in the Task Force as the Badge Alliance, but 
  the BA wants to wait to join as a W3C member until an official 
  working group is approved. Have there been any updates on whether 
  we can have prospective-but-non-current-members participating in 
  the Task Force?
Nate Otto: Badge Alliance will join when the Working Group is 
  created. We strongly believe in that.
Manu Sporny:  Must be a W3C member to be a participant of the WG.
Nate Otto: Would rather not join at any point when the WG is not 
  yet approved.
Manu Sporny:  Must be a W3C member to be a participant of the IG 
Matt Stone:  How many of the 40 members are w3c members?
Manu Sporny:  17 Members today, 7 committd to join, 16 that are 
  on the fence based on resource availability
Manu Sporny:  Commitment is contingent on the creation of the 
  credentials working group
Nate Otto: Cool, thanks for the update on membership. I'll drop 
  off now and listen to the audio later. Support your position, 
  manu! Good luck.

Topic: Current Status of Task Force Proposal

Manu Sporny:  W3c staff suggested we create a new task force 
  around creation of charter.  this group suggested we invite the 
  interested parties that are currently absent
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2015/11/16-wpay-minutes.html
Manu Sporny:  Minutes suggest that there wasn't an understanding 
  of what we're doing
Manu Sporny:  We assert we are a neutral meeting place, and 
  anyone is welcome.
Manu Sporny:  W3c staff is concerned that relevant voices aren't 
  being heard
Manu Sporny: 
Manu Sporny:  Have 2 new proposals on table 1) task force on this 
  community group to answer question in problem statement
Manu Sporny:  Proposal to change term from credential to 
  Verifiable Claim
Manu Sporny: 
Manu Sporny:  W3c staff is concerned that we've already made 
  decisions - change assertion to questions in Verifiable Claims 
  Task Force
Manu Sporny:  Invite facebook, paypal, amazon to discuss these 
  question and identify overlap.
Manu Sporny:  Discussed proposals w/ w3c staff. heavily 
  circulated inside w3c. 11/23 meeting to discuss.
Manu Sporny:  Issues as they stand now:
Manu Sporny:  1) If in web payments IG, will need legal involved 
  for IPR consequences
Manu Sporny:  Legal review could be quick or VERY lengthy
Manu Sporny:  2) If in community group, concern that it's not 
  neutral.  would essential keep the IPR question out of the mix
Manu Sporny:  Works as long as we follow the questions and 
  problem statements in the verifiable claims task force
Manu Sporny:  We think option 2 is better, but seek blessing from 
  w3c staff
Alex Jackl:  Will you include a tag that indicates these notes, 
  like "important - please read"
Matt Stone:  Are we getting an invite to participate in these 
Manu Sporny:  Maybe, chairs have to make the invites.
Shane McCarron: 10 AM Eastern
Manu Sporny:  Who is interested in being on the call?
Yes from: Stone, Richard, Stuart (but unavailable)...
Manu Sporny:  From w3c: digital signature and LD is a distraction 
  - key thing we're doing that's not in ITF is credentials are user 
Manu Sporny:  Makes it more private and more portable
Manu Sporny:  W3c: strongest pushback is from OpenID Connect and 
  SAML, what's different here? User Centric, not Service Centric
Manu Sporny:  W3c is "the web is for everyone" and service 
  centric isn't necessarily so.
Dave Longley: With user-centric credentials: credentials are 
  linked to identities, not particular Web sites or services. 
  Holders control which credentials to use and when. Credential 
  consumers need only trust issuers, allowing holders to freely 
  choose and swap out the services they employ to help them manage 
  and share their credentials.
Henry Story:  Consider as a key notion a way to make Linked Data 
  a key concept - as a way for organziations and people to actually 
  cooperate where this is no centralized control
Manu Sporny:  Shouldn't compromise on LD, but  not start there.
Manu Sporny:  Tring to find a couple very deft and compelling 
  arguments to validate the need for this work.
Henry Story: Makes sense.
Dave Longley: We need a standard, machine-readable data format 
  for expressing identity credentials that can be extended with 
  minimal coordination ... but need a better line of argumentation 
  to demonstrate the power of that.
Manu Sporny: 
Henry Story:  Have more tools now and big players, like IBM and 
  Oracle so we have industry coming on our side, but understand the 
  strategy to get the discussion going
Manu Sporny:  Want to engage the nay-sayers to work through these 
Manu Sporny:  Need these stakeholders to become allies, 
  (Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc)
Manu Sporny:  Trying to keep this from becoming an adversarial 
  process by engaging all concerned.
Matt Stone:  Assuming we go this direction and bring these 
  parties in - is it a facilitated meeting going through the list 
  of questions - methodically and intentionally? [scribe assist by 
  Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  Will continue to have thses meeting over the next  
  couple of weeks.  will do interviews w/ these stakeholders as 
  they have time.  will meet on demand.
Manu Sporny:  We won't wait for Tuesday meetings - we'll be 
Manu Sporny:  Will compress as many as possible in Nov/Dec/Jan
Matt Stone: +1 From stone
Dave Longley: +1 To the proposal
Stuart Sutton: +1
Brian Sletten: +1 Insofar as I grok it from this feed
John Tibbetts: +1 For user-centricity
Manu will "write this up" and send it to appropriate mailing 
  lists at W3C

Topic: Focus on Use Cases

Matt Stone: +1 For focus on User Centric from stone as well
Brian Sletten will start working with us on use cases with help 
  of Dan Burnett
Shane McCarron: I am happy to help
Matt Stone:  I'm willing to learn
Gregg Kellogg: I can help out
Alex Jackl: We are working on use cases in PESC as well so in the 
  future I can begin helping introduce that

Topic: ToDo Items

Manu Sporny: https://github.com/opencreds/website/issues/14
Not ready this week yet though
John Tibbetts: For bblfish: I believe there's subtle reason why 
  'user' centricity (I'd almost call it entity-centricity) is 
  uniquely enabled by Linked Data..so there's a tie-in.  But you 
  have to be LD-aware to appreciate it.
John Tibbetts:  Yes, though I would emphasize cross 
  organisational co-operation, as that is where linkability comes 
  in as key. [scribe assist by Henry Story]
John Tibbetts:  That is it is useful to have something user 
  centric, but without linkability we are in the 1980ies PC era. 
  [scribe assist by Henry Story]
Received on Tuesday, 17 November 2015 21:05:15 UTC

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