- From: <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:01:49 -0500
- To: Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks to Sunny Lee for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Credentials CG telecon are now available:
http://opencreds.org/minutes/2015-01-13/
Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).
----------------------------------------------------------------
Credentials Community Group Telecon Minutes for 2015-01-13
Agenda:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2015Jan/0001.html
Topics:
1. Web Payments Face-to-Face
2. Linked Data Signatures
3. JSON-LD Credentials Context/Vocabulary Update
4. Roadmap Update
Action Items:
1. Brian to review
http://openbadges.github.io/openbadges-specification/
2. Manu to review
http://openbadges.github.io/openbadges-specification/
Organizer:
Manu Sporny
Scribe:
Sunny Lee
Present:
Sunny Lee, Manu Sporny, Erin Knight, David I. Lehn, Nate Otto,
Eric Korb, Kerri Lemoie, Dave Longley, Mark Leuba, Mary Bold,
Brian Sletten
Audio:
http://opencreds.org/minutes/2015-01-13/audio.ogg
Sunny Lee is scribing.
Manu Sporny: Agenda today we have update on webpayments f2f and
how credentials integrate into that
Manu Sporny: We have reports from subgroups
Manu Sporny: Any other agenda items?
Topic: Web Payments Face-to-Face
Manu Sporny: First up is webpayments f2f
Manu Sporny: Robobank is a big international bank in the
Netherlands, meeting will be there:
https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/2014-02-02_Meeting_Page
Manu Sporny: These are the use cases they're working on:
https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Use_Cases_Task_Force
Manu Sporny: We need to make sure our use cases are integrated
into web payments work, do the bulk of the work here and then
integrate with them
Manu Sporny: Meeting on Feb 2 - 4 in Utrecht, planning on making
strong push to get credentials use cases to get integrated in
some way
Manu Sporny: Use cases document is in pretty good shape. We need
to make sure that this group understands what we're trying to do
at that meeting
Nate Otto: The Web Payments use cases doc is a good one.
Nate Otto: I didn't know of an integration plan.
Eric Korb: New to me
Manu Sporny: Is this new to folks, if so please speak up
Kerri Lemoie: New to me too
Dave Longley: Plan is not new to me, sounds good
Manu Sporny: This is new to a number of people
Manu Sporny: During web payments f2f in Santa Clara, a number of
orgs showed up from Ed world, ETS, Verisign, Accreditrust, came
to web payments and said there's a credential issue and they'd
like to take on the bulk of the credential work. This happend in
Oct 2014
Manu Sporny: Web payments group has since been focusing on
payments with strong verifiable credentiail so you can prove who
people are. First f2f was last Oct, next is in Feb 2015.
Manu Sporny: What's happening in Feb is to convince web payments
IG, official group within w3c, the credential cg is going to make
a strong push to have our roadmap and use cases doc and tech
we're working on, become a part of the set of technologies that
the web payments group proposes to be officially standardized by
w3c.
Nate Otto: Thanks for the recap, Manu
Dave Longley: Might help to quickly clarify that w3c process
recommends some groups to officially work on official work
Manu Sporny: 2 Processes to start official work at w3c
Manu Sporny: W3C member company proposes a new activity is
created, say a company says w3c should do something with
credentials, then w3c gives 4 - 6 mo lead, get people interested,
have workshop, 3 - 6 mo later, they'll charter Interest Group to
charter creation of an official WG, which happens another 6
months later.
Manu Sporny: We don't want to wait 18 mo to start stuff we're
talking about in this group
Manu Sporny: Web payments group has gone through 12 of the 18
months into the process. we're trying to piggyback on the web
payment group's work.
Manu Sporny: We don't want to wait, they absolutely need
credential piece. This will help us get more support for
credential stuff if it were looped in with payments rather than
doing this on our own.
Kerri Lemoie: Makes good sense - thanks
Manu Sporny: Any qs on w3c process or why we're trying to hook
into web payments work?
Nate Otto: Clearly explained, thanks.
Mark Leuba: Makes sense
Manu Sporny: We have a critical meeting in Feb where we're
pushing for this. Belaboring this point to make sure everyone in
this group is for this approach.
Manu Sporny: Please make your objections loud before Feb
meeting.
Mary Bold: Is a warm reception expected?
Manu Sporny: Any other qs?
Manu Sporny: Yeah it should because without credential problem
solves, can't do high value high stakes payments and the group
has not been working on the credentialing at all.
Manu Sporny: This is not coming to the web payments group
without warning.
Mary Bold: Filling a gap is a fine approach. You will be telling
us about agenda, right?
Manu Sporny: Agenda is still being created. In fact just had a
call about the agenda. Review our roadmap doc and/or use cases
and review work on signatures.
Sunny Lee: What do think the results of that meeting are going
to be? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Nate Otto: For Open Badges, a spec already being used in the
wild: what is the impact of including our credentials use cases
(that incorporate some existing functions of open badges) into an
already chartered group?
Manu Sporny: If everything goes according to plan, web payments
IG will absorb credential CG's use cases. Once those use cases
are in there, that puts a stake in the ground
Manu Sporny: Credential use cases will be part of a uses cases
release that is 1 - 2 months later. After picking up credential
use cases web payments are on the hook to make a proposal on how
to tackle the use cases.
Sunny Lee: Yep
Manu Sporny: Split up into data format and protocol. As far as
we align on data format, we should be able to do that in the next
few months, we'll be in good shape. We're using JSON-LD and obi
created vocabulary in json-ld context. As far as protocol, still
uncertain. We have backpack federation issue, identity
transfer...big question mark...
Manu Sporny: Need to understand what BA wants for the protocol.
Including our use cases has a lot of upsides.
Manu Sporny: Now that you've identified the problem, what
technologies exist out there? OBI stuff is one such thing.
Identity credentials is another one. OpenID and OpenID Connect is
yet another one. Then we need to figure which one of these gets
reused to solve the problem.
Nate Otto: BA wants to revisit protocol for backpack federation
because a lot of stakeholders have specific needs that need to be
improved. Say Cities of Learning under 13 learners
Nate Otto: Wouldn't want to change anything that causes any
further work or confusion.
Manu Sporny: All this stuff is moving quickly and in parallel.
Impossible to predict the future. The only thing we can try and
promise is to coordinate as much as possible to create as little
misalignment as possible.
Nate Otto: Do you think going forward with this strategy,
piggybacking on the web payments, gets in the way of going
faster?
Manu Sporny: The more market verticals we involve the higher the
chance of success for the core technology, but the slower we
move.
Nate Otto: Have particular things we'd like to get done this
year to help folks having trouble with the backpack being more
centralized than initially intended. Will likely be a BA priority
this year. We'll move forward with all these issues in mind. And
be collaborative and open.
Eric Korb: As Nate is talking about specific issues we're trying
to address, it's difficult to try to cover the back of all the
projects asking for specific things. We have to understand that
we have to build things to patch things but not build things that
put us in a corner.
Eric Korb: Waiting on a communication layer on our platform. in
the mean time, just patching in between. That effects our
customer base.
Eric Korb: Don't think it's reasonable to expect us to solve
this problem worldwide by this summer.
Manu Sporny: One of the core features of w3c is extensibility.
Nate Otto: Yes, "solve" would be overly optimistic --
Nate Otto: "Experiment in a positive direction" is my hope
Manu Sporny: With json-ld extensibility is in there from day 1.
Same goes for protocols. The only way to make progress on this is
to figure out core of the comm protocol and data format and
extend that.
Manu Sporny: There's gonna be a certain amount of effort, where
we prototype some of the experimental features, if someone comes
up with features that seem like a good candidate for
standardization we'll coalesce around that.
Manu Sporny: Eg. let's say NateOtto has a deliverable by this
summer and needs to figure out improvements to the backpack. what
NateOtto implements is generalizable enough that it can be
applied to health care and payments as well. He proposes it,
group discusses, and the feature can be standardized.
Manu Sporny: Creating a standard is a long drawn out process.
Nate Otto: Haha, I don't think you would get Manu to say creating
rock solid standards is easy.
Manu Sporny: We have a chunk of technologies that are out there
that work. we have a core of things that can be standardized.
It's true that the backpack federation isn't figured out but
there might be badges data formats that we can all agree on. We
can move on pieces quickly.
Manu Sporny: Any qs?
Nate Otto: Thanks, that sounds good for some of my concerns.
Manu Sporny: As always this is an ongoing convo.
Manu Sporny: We'll jump into deliverables. these are important
because it provides a roadmap for the other groups outside of
this comm to try and understand what we're trying to accomplish.
Manu Sporny: Next bit of work is linked data signatures
Manu Sporny: All of these docs we're about to talk about are
there to communicate externally where we're headed.
Topic: Linked Data Signatures
Manu Sporny: Dave Longley is lead, can you give us an overview
of where we are?
Dave Longley:
http://json-ld.org/spec/latest/rdf-dataset-normalization/index.html
Dave Longley: Most of the work for this is waiting on me to do
spec editing on RDF dataset. have updated intro on the spec
Dave Longley:
http://json-ld.org/spec/latest/rdf-dataset-normalization/index.html#introduction
Dave Longley: The spec has been woefully out of date. 4 diff
implementations in 4 diff languages.
Dave Longley:
http://json-ld.org/spec/latest/rdf-dataset-normalization/index.html#normalization-algorithm
Dave Longley: The intro details what the spec is for, main
algorithm is also in there. will be filling in details for other
meatier parts.
Dave Longley: I'll be working to get more of the spec done. Very
technical work.
Manu Sporny: Also been talking with w3c staff on pass forward
for this spec. The reason why we need this spec is because we
need it to do digital signatures. The spec is more or less done.
We just need to update it to shove it into a w3c process.
Manu Sporny: Feel we can fast track this and move it into
existing working group.
Manu Sporny: RDF data set normalization will not go into a
credential since expertise to do this spec well is different than
the skillset within the credential wg.
Topic: JSON-LD Credentials Context/Vocabulary Update
Nate Otto:
http://openbadges.github.io/openbadges-specification/1.1/context.json
Nate Otto: http://standard.openbadges.org
Nate Otto: Has all the vocab that open badges community has been
using.
Nate Otto: We also have the json-ld context file that you can
use to build your open badges and other credential document.
Manu Sporny: The document looks great. Fantastic progress.
Manu Sporny: Part of the work here is to do document reviews.
This looks like it's in good enough shape to do a doc review.
Nate Otto: Yes, this is now open for document review, and would
love for a couple folks on this call to take a pass through
Manu Sporny: Any volunteers to do a review on this doc?
Brian Sletten: I'll review the document.
ACTION: Brian to review
http://openbadges.github.io/openbadges-specification/
Nate Otto: Thanks, bsletten
Manu Sporny: I'll do a review too.
ACTION: Manu to review
http://openbadges.github.io/openbadges-specification/
Manu Sporny: Any other reviewers?
Manu Sporny: Once you do the review, send all feedback to the
mailing list and we'll process it there.
Manu Sporny: You get review comments in, at w3c you have to
respond to every singe comment/question.
Nate Otto: Build some good habits now
Manu Sporny: As a community group, technically we don't have to
do that but it's good practice.
Nate Otto: Need to take off but thanks and look forward to
comments.
Manu Sporny: Anything else on the vocab?
Sunny Lee: Kerri has also been helping w/ the editing. Looking
forward to comments/review. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Topic: Roadmap Update
Manu Sporny: The roadmap document is here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19pnLioDVOoTl5ScUHgf_Bj9gUpQBHyShrnDoY_uz20c/edit
Mark Leuba: Made good progress since we started this before the
holidays
Mark Leuba: Please take a look at the google doc, if you don't
have access, e-mail me.
Mark Leuba: Thanks for your input manu
Mark Leuba: Next is to establish some targets
Mark Leuba: Appreciate Nate Otto helping with credential vocab
Mark Leuba: Simple use cases in the initial section of the doc,
we could probably expand upon the work place civil society ... if
someone wanted to add to the other 3 or the education one, that
would be helpful.
Manu Sporny: Is the doc ready for review?
Mark Leuba: Only thing I'd like to resolve is terminology for
credentialee. Default would be to keep current terminology. Each
of which have certain downsides. Beyond that think it's ready for
review.
Manu Sporny: Do you want to give it another week and then jump
in and review next week?
Mark Leuba: This is not my document, it's a team effort.
Manu Sporny: Tim Holborn and Pindar Wong have also weighed in on
the doc. They're in the web payments group but they clearly have
interest. Their input is important in addition they're based in
Asia Pacific so that can provide a different perspective.
Manu Sporny: Any qs on the roadmap doc?
Manu Sporny: Question: in the web payments IG, we have a payment
agent that can execute transactions on your behalf. I would
imagine similarly, credential agent can receive and process
credentials.
Manu Sporny: Once we've created that in web payments IG, we've
broken down the phases of a transaction (earn credential, assign
credential, request credential, etc.) and this process was
helpful.
Manu Sporny: Certain companies are only interested in certain
phases.
Manu Sporny: These are all different phases, can say they're all
different use cases, wonder if we should talk about the different
phases of earning credentials and receiving one.
Manu Sporny: I understand there's a higher overview but maybe
having something time-based would also be useful.
Mark Leuba: There are so many use cases that you describe.
You're saying show a series of sequential use cases?
Manu Sporny: Let's say earning a credential that is fairly
generic. There may be 20 different use cases on how you earn a
credential. eg. work on a farm, take the SATs, take a shop class.
All these are about doing an activity and earning a credential.
It's this high level thing of doing an activity and earning a
credential. That we might want to put in a high level roadmap
doc.
Mary Bold: Sounds like what you're suggesting is simplest
workflow.
Mark Leuba: Marybold and I are working on this together.
Mary Bold: Can think about one schematic.
Manu Sporny: Big +1 from me.
Dave Longley: Credential agent, think it's good to have things
broken out into different parts. If we have a credential agent
doing everything together...
Manu Sporny: Credential agent doesn't have to do everything.
Dave Longley: What's the advantage of saying there's a
credential agent?
Manu Sporny: Because none are the actual piece of software. this
is the way the web payments group seems to be structuring their
work. The closer we map our work with theirs, it's easier for
them to integrate the work.
Mark Leuba: There's a credential service that is a software
program.
Manu Sporny: Would argue that a company runs a program and
within that program there might be credential agent.
Manu Sporny: This is a barely formed idea so we need to hammer
on it some more.
Manu Sporny: Anything else we should cover in the remaining
seconds?
Manu Sporny: Thanks everyone for a very productive call. please
continue to work on your docs. Will be showing them to web
payments IG in the beginning of Feb. Please focus on the bits you
think will have the most impact.
Received on Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:02:12 UTC