- From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:08:01 -0800
- To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Cc: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, WCAG WG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, "public-comments-wcag20@w3.org" <public-comments-wcag20@w3.org>, Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, "kirsten@can-adapt.com" <kirsten@can-adapt.com>
A possible compromise could be to throw both a markup validation error and an accessibility *warning*… thoughts? > On Nov 27, 2013, at 7:35 AM, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@målform.no> wrote: > > James Craig, Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:47:44 -0800: >> +1 to NOT fail an accessibility verification test if <img> has no >> @alt but does a non-empty value for @aria-label or @title. >> >> There should still be a markup validation error, but not an >> accessibility error. > > I am in favor of James' solution, as it it is the closest to separate > the concerns. > > Clearly, it would be more robust to use @alt, so ideally one should get > more pluses (or A’s) for using @alt, though, > > Leif Halvard Silli > > >>> On Nov 22, 2013, at 3:27 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote: >>> >>> On behalf of the WCAG working group, I have an action item to solicit >>> responses from the wider community regarding a proposed amendment to WCAG >>> failure technique F65 regarding missing ALT. Currently; if an <img> element >>> is missing from an ALT attribute the page fails WCAG SC 1.1.1 Level A. Some >>> are proposing that we allow authors to use the aria-label, aria-labelledby, >>> and title attributes INSTEAD of ALT. >>> >>> So under the amended failure technique NONE of the following would fail >>> WCAG: >>> >>> <img src="../images/giraffe.jpg" title="Giraffe grazing on tree branches"/> >>> >>> <img src="../images/giraffe.jpg" aria-label="Giraffe grazing on tree >>> branches"/> >>> >>> <img src="../images/giraffe.jpg" aria-labelledby="123"/> >>> <p id="123"> Giraffe grazing on tree branches</p> >>> >>> As you can imagine there are strong opinions all around on this so I >>> suggested we get a sense of what other groups such as the HTML5 A11y TF and >>> PF think. >>> >>> Those in favour of the change provide the following rational: >>> >>> --These alternatives on the img element work in assistive technology >>> --The aria spec says these attributes should get an accessible NAME in the >>> API >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#textalternativecomputation >>> --They say it's easy to teach beginner programmers to just always use an >>> aria label on everything, rather than requiring a label on form fields and >>> alt on images >>> --They feel as a failure F65 is very strong if fails a page for >>> missing ALT, >>> especially if other things work, and they would like to soften it to allow >>> other things that work. >>> --html 5 allows a <figure><legend> combination instead of alt, so they feel >>> WCAG will have to change F65 anyway to allow a figure with a legend, and >>> that helps open the door to this discussion >>> >>> Those in favour of the status quo (which fails missing alt text) >>> provide the >>> following rational: >>> >>> --aria-label, labelledby and title, are not really suitable attributes for >>> img alternative text because they implies a label or title, rather than an >>> alternate text, so it is not a semantic equivalent >>> --title is not well supported >>> --some feel that the aria spec is not in any way suggesting these as >>> replacements to ALT. >>> --aria instructs authors to use native html where possible, and they could >>> not come up with viable use cases of omitting alt text >>> --there are hundreds of millions of dollars invested in current evaluation >>> tools, and methodologies, and this would represent a major departure from >>> one of the most basic accessibility convention, that is almost as >>> old as the >>> web and is the "rock star" of accessibility >>> --it could cost a lot of money to change guidance to developers etc..., and >>> muddy the waters on a very efficient current evaluation mechanism >>> --when the figure/legend is supported by AT we can amend F65 but that is a >>> different issue and the semantics of this construct are OK for text >>> alternatives, rather than the label/labelledby/title options >>> --it may cause some confidence problems to WCAG legislation, because it >>> represents a strong loosening to a fundamental Success Criteria, an >>> unnecessary change that doesn't help the cause of accessibility, but just >>> complicates things >>> --ALT is better supported and the text appears when images are turned off. >>> --initial twitter feedback from the community is strongly against changing >>> this failure >>> >>> >>> There are probably other reasons on both sides which we hope to hear >>> ... but >>> these should start it off. Please give your opinions and reasons. >>> >>> Current technique here: >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/F65.html >>> Proposed failure here (see test procedure) >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> David MacDonald >>> >>> CanAdapt Solutions Inc. >>> Tel: 613.235.4902 >>> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100 >>> www.Can-Adapt.com >>> >>> Adapting the web to all users >>> Including those with disabilities >>
Received on Wednesday, 27 November 2013 19:08:33 UTC