Re: Findable help issues

I will need to leave if the plumber comes (to let him in) but I will try
and join at 8.10 est!

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:28 PM Rachael Montgomery <
rachael@accessiblecommunity.org> wrote:

> Lisa,
>
> I can speak to this some this morning and I may have a few options to
> discuss. I can be on your zoom at 8:10 ET if you are available.
>
> Rachael
> On Feb 4, 2021, 6:21 AM -0500, Lisa Seeman <lisa1seeman@gmail.com>, wrote:
>
> But why does  the definition have to be different?
>
> Do you want a call tonight or sunday and we can try and hash out some
> wording.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 12:33 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> wrote:
>
>> HI Lisa,
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, set of web pages is defined and used by 4 current SCs, the most
>> similar is Consistent Navigation. The problem is that "Consistent
>> Navigation" (and the others) do not require that navigation be shown on all
>> pages in the set, only that where it does show, it must show consistently.
>>
>> They almost self-define, as if you don’t have the navigation then it
>> isn’t the same set. It is only if you do have the navigation and it is in a
>> different place that it triggers a fail.
>>
>>
>>
>> Findable Help requires that you know whether a page is in a set, and if
>> certain help mechanisms are available, then it should have those available
>> consistently across the set.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lisa Seeman <lisa1seeman@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* 04 February 2021 10:10
>> *To:* Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> *Cc:* WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>;
>> public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Findable help issues
>>
>>
>>
>> Isn't it defined at set-of-web-pagesdef
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-loc.html#set-of-web-pagesdef> from
>> SC *2.4.5
>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#navigation-mechanisms-mult-loc> Multiple
>> Ways?*
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not sure we can do a better job!
>>
>> Maybe
>>
>> Set a screen that are used to complete a process, such as filling out a
>> form or learning about a product
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 5:19 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lisa,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sure, the latest version of the SC text and understanding is here:
>>
>> https://w3c.github.io/wcag/understanding/findable-help.html
>>
>>
>>
>> The basic issue here though is that ‘set of web pages’ hasn’t been used
>> in this way before. How does a tester (or even the developer!) know whether
>> a page belongs to a particular set of web pages.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lisa Seeman <lisa1seeman@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* 02 February 2021 14:54
>> *To:* Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> *Cc:* WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>;
>> public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Findable help issues
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Alistair
>>
>> Can we have a link to the current wording of the SC?
>>
>> It might make more sense to me then...
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 2:47 AM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Last time we discussed Findable help, there were a couple of issues we
>> couldn’t answer:
>>
>> https://www.w3.org/2020/12/01-ag-minutes.html#item03
>>
>>
>>
>> The resolution was to add some examples that try to answer the question.
>> In doing so, we should be able to work out if the SC text will be testable.
>>
>> The problem was that "Consistent Navigation" doesn't require that
>> navigation be shown on all pages in the set, only that where it does show,
>> it must show consistently.
>>
>> I think this does put us under a burden of proof to show, either through
>> examples or a definition update, how people can consistently identify
>> whether any page is part of a set.
>>
>> If that is too difficult, it might be a case for deferment because in
>> Silver the person claiming conformance defines the process/task/set.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> @alastc / www.nomensa.com
>>
>>
>>
>>