W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org > May 2019

Re: Make it easy to find the most important thing

From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 10:40:35 -0700
Message-ID: <CAKdCpxxXrMKvK-V7CK3nSWco+_AQJv__drJELXVRz0f2g0hhqw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Lee <stevelee@w3.org>
Cc: "James A." <A.James@soton.ac.uk>, Rachael Montgomery <rachael@accessiblecommunity.org>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Hi All,

Like Alastair, I too am struggling with the use of the term 'modalities' in
the context of this SC. We've used that term previously (SC 1.3.5) to
describe alternative outputs for the user, and this may be the source of at
least *my* confusion.

Additionally, I think the intent here is for discoverability of critical
(or at least primary) content on screen, whether controls *or* other
editorial material on screen, and so I'd like to see this broader
interpretation of what is covered here.

Alastair wrote:

>     So I would suggest:
>
>     “Essential controls are available without scrolling

...and I would suggest that we expand that to:

"Esential controls and content directly related to the primary purpose of
the page (or screen) are available without scrolling. "

Additionally, in our Understanding document we could expand/explain that
not *all* content needs to be visible on page load, but that critical
'signposts' must be visible. That could include headings and/or secondary
menus.

Thoughts?

JF

(Sent from my mobile, apologies for any spelling mistakes)


On Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:02 AM Steve Lee <stevelee@w3.org> wrote:

> On 22/05/2019 22:05, James A. wrote:>
>
>  > My intention was to try to put into words that the point where the skip
>  > to content link would place focus or where the main region started
>  > should be visible on screen without scrolling
>
> Slightly off topic but....
>
> This has made me consider a new related pattern for the Design Guide,
> though it might be useful as part of this Pattern/SC in order to to help
> clarify the difference between 'most important thing' and other content.
>
> * Additional content that is off screen should be clearly signposted and
> easily discoverable.
>
> The idea is not to hide content that is not the most important thing and
> is 'off screen' (or "below the fold" if you must use that less suitable
> term).
>
> I know people are now mostly trained to know a vertical scroll is a
> basic gesture and to use it to check for more content - but can/should
> we rely on that?
>
> That is certainly part of Objective "Help the user find what they need"
> but will also help user avoid making mistakes through missing something
> they need to know yet is not deem 'most important' by the author.
>
> Steve
>
> On 22/05/2019 22:05, James A. wrote:
> > Hi Rachael and Alistair
> >
> > My intention was to try to put into words that the point where the skip
> > to content link would place focus or where the main region started
> > should be visible on screen without scrolling but I don’t think I phrase
> > it correctly! I was trying to say that the start of the content should
> > be visible, expecting that not all content could be on screen. If we can
> > find a way of phrase the criteria without requiring the use of regions
> > and landmarks then we would remove the need to define important content.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Abi
> >
> > *From:*Rachael Montgomery <rachael@accessiblecommunity.org>
> > *Sent:* 22 May 2019 16:29
> > *To:* James A. <A.James@soton.ac.uk>; Alastair Campbell
> > <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> > *Cc:* public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org
> > *Subject:* Re: Make it easy to find the most important thing
> >
> > To add to Alastairs comments, I believe the concept of important content
> > will be easier to include and test in Silver.
> >
> > On May 22, 2019, 10:59 AM -0400, Alastair Campbell
> > <acampbell@nomensa.com <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>, wrote:
> >
> >     I think it helps to consider a variety of example sites for this
> >     sort of thing, I put a few screenshots into a folder that should be
> >     visible to everyone:
> >
> >     https://1drv.ms/f/s!AqcLQeCk6CjwiJoJcZDLrNuw4QYkzg
> >     <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F1drv.ms%2Ff%2Fs!AqcLQeCk6CjwiJoJcZDLrNuw4QYkzg&data=01%7C01%7CA.James%40soton.ac.uk%7C3b61fdbdc35341884f4508d6deca818b%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&sdata=Zs0YpdchEcNwCTPl97ldXMsBEBoAHdnH7LcBzoiYQ2E%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >     (No alt text, but look at the actual site if you can’t see the
> image.)
> >
> >      > I wasn’t involved in 2.1 so not party to all the details that
> >     were discussed at that time. I think your proposals a good basis but
> >     I am concerned they only mention controls not content more widely.
> >
> >     I’m not sure how it could apply to content? For example, if you have
> >     very little content and the site keeps everything in the viewport,
> >     that’s fine. But if you have more content?
> >
> >     For example, my outlook email is empty, but gmail is full and the
> >     email listing scrolls.
> >
> >      > “content following repeated navigational elements must be visible
> >     without scrolling in the main modalities of the content.”
> >
> >     Looking at the BBC example
> >     <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftcnbpq.bl.files.1drv.com%2Fy4mlG1BeopeV2rB29W3SCQbzge8lAsyY62RTAYyAK0CczFAV9xKeokKckoFnJze0B-hdIWPhbJaWKyj0kDePwKclGaQL6aMpSwI2XCdBN-8-C6tjmn6W_IYRylBReetw0a9V4xORR_jdovEjPOGRcD8TbvyNcvI01aV3RAToaTpCGoJb-CmxXjTPcG7YmQwboc5GIl7GM0woPFREr-t3aR6Zg%2FBBC%2520-%2520Home%2520large.jpg%3Fpsid%3D1&data=01%7C01%7CA.James%40soton.ac.uk%7C3b61fdbdc35341884f4508d6deca818b%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&sdata=6qYpHcj%2BueUwDDZD70lMAehv3OY%2BHMy5BhfwHOdsjuY%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >     there is repeated navigation at the bottom with a copyright notice
> >     afterwards  (a common pattern), so it appears that copyright notice
> >     should be visible without scrolling?
> >
> >     If it were re-phrase to only be the top navigation, I’m wondering
> >     when a site could fail that? If it applied to all content that would
> >     be impossible, if it is just the start of the content then wouldn’t
> >     everyone pass?
> >
> >     Going from Rachael’s draft where the intent is that:
> >
> >     “People with low executive function, impaired memory, and other
> >     cognitive and learning disabilities may not be able to find features
> >     that are not immediately visible on the screen, either because they
> >     are “below the fold” and that require the use of the scroll bar or
> >     because they do not stand out from other features.”
> >
> >     Would I be correct in assuming the gmail / outlook examples are good
> >     ones? All the main controls are attached to the viewport.
> >
> >     Looking at the draft SC text, it focuses on controls which I think
> >     is more reasonable:
> >
> >      > “Essential controls are prominent  and visible without scrolling
> >     in the main modalities of the content.“
> >
> >     Essential
> >     <
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FWCAG21%2F%23dfn-essential&data=01%7C01%7CA.James%40soton.ac.uk%7C3b61fdbdc35341884f4508d6deca818b%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&sdata=pgGXfHjTGJ3qpy6WNwcu9G5bopqnvDhMkBcHV7GdtQ4%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >     has a closely defined meaning in WCAG, I’m not 100% sure that aligns
> >     with the intent here, but I can’t think of a better term off-hand.
> >
> >     “prominent and visible” is going to be tricky across multiple screen
> >     sizes, taking the gmail example: /none/ of the controls are
> >     available on the mobile sized version because there isn’t space.
> >     They use a hamburger menu.
> >
> >     I think that will be a common issue, the BBC page hides controls the
> >     smaller screen you are on, moving many items into the ‘more’ menu.
> >
> >     There physically isn’t a way of fitting everything in, so I think
> >     “available without scrolling” would be better, i.e. you might have
> >     to click on something to open it.
> >
> >     Also, I know ‘main modalities of content’ wasn’t Rachael’s phrase,
> >     but I can’t remember what it means and find it rather confusing! (I
> >     assume it’s not just me?)
> >
> >     So I would suggest:
> >
> >     “Essential controls are available without scrolling.”
> >
> >     The main discussion then will be how to define what is an essential
> >     control, given that a site/page may have many, many functions and
> >     users would each have different tasks / priorities…
> >
> >     -Alastair
> >
>
>
Received on Thursday, 23 May 2019 17:41:12 UTC

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