- From: Joshue O Connor <josh@interaccess.ie>
- Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 18:20:47 +0100
- To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
- CC: public-cognitive-a11y-tf <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <59134BEF.2070106@interaccess.ie>
Thank you John for letting us know. Our condolences and thoughts are with his family. Sincerely Josh John Foliot wrote: > Hi All, > > Sadly, Barry Johnson passed about 2 weeks ago, losing his brave fight > with cancer. The entire Deque family is understandably saddened to > lose a colleague at such a young age, and we are collectively tidying > up loose ends this week. > > As such, I have recently removed Barry's participation in W3C > activities (and completing this request). > > Thanks for your understanding. > > JF > > > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Barry Johnson > <barry.johnson@deque.com <mailto:barry.johnson@deque.com>> wrote: > > > Please remove Barry Johnson from this discussion group. We are > slowly clearing his emails and addressing any unfinished > business. He valued this group greatly! But I can not contribute > to your work as a pediatric nurse. > > Thank you for all you do > > His wife -Cyndy > Cyndywj@gmail.com <mailto:Cyndywj@gmail.com> > *********************************** > *Barry Johnson, CPACC* > Senior AccessibilityConsultant | Deque Systems, Inc. > Phone: 301-367-0014 <tel:301-367-0014> | E-mail: > barry.johnson@deque.com <mailto:barry.johnson@deque.com> > Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/dequesystems>, LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/company/deque-systems-inc>, and Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/dequesystems>. > Skype - bwjohnson.dq > > On May 9, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu > <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>> wrote: > >> what exception? >> >> Lisa, I think you are missing the points that John and I are >> trying to make. >> >> The purpose for having a word list of 1500 words is to restrict >> the words to common words that everyone would understand. But >> that is not possible. Which is our point. >> >> You replied saying that each author could make a different word >> list for their site. >> >> * We don’t see how that will help. >> * I gave one example — and John gave another to show how each >> author creating a different 1500 word list for their site >> would not work. >> * The only way this would help a person understand the site >> would be for them to download and learn all the words on >> those special lists that they do not already know >> >> >> You now say that that site would be an exception. >> >> How would it be an exception — and how many other sites would >> (medical, physics, games, sites about game of thrones, Klingon, >> different languages, gardening, biology ) and how do you decide >> which? >> >> /g/ >> >> Gregg C Vanderheiden >> greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu> >> >> >> >> >>> On May 7, 2017, at 6:06 AM, lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com >>> <mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi John >>> >>> the Shakespeare site would fall under the exception. If that is >>> not clear we can explain it further in the write up. >>> >>> frequently used words are the words that a person with a >>> communication disorder are more likely to know. This is true >>> also in professional domains such as programming or engineering >>> where some of the terms may not be in a core vocablery for the >>> language but will be known to people with a communication >>> disorder who are working in the profession. It makes it >>> possible for professional sites to conform and people with >>> cognitive and learning disabilities to work in that profession >>> or field, including as they age. >>> I will try and discuss it more on the call. >>> >>> How will that word list be discover-able? you have some good >>> ideas there John - I think once we agree on the principle we can >>> decide as a group if we want to require that the lists are >>> discoverable form the site or only referenced in a compliance >>> >>> >>> All the best >>> >>> Lisa Seeman >>> >>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter >>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- On Fri, 05 May 2017 21:21:38 +0300 *John >>> Foliot<john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>>* >>> wrote ---- >>> >>> Following on to Gregg's questions: >>> >>> * How will that word list be discover-able? (Does it need >>> to be? - I presume yes for testing / >>> compliance-verification purposes) >>> >>> * Is the requirement then also mandating that the word >>> list be made publicly available from the affected site? >>> How? Where? >>> (For example, is the Task Force contemplating something >>> like <link rel="wordlist" href="path_to_wordlist">, >>> after registering a new @rel value here: >>> http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values >>> <http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values>?) >>> >>> >>> If I have a website that focuses on Shakespearean English, I >>> could likely generate a frequency list of 1500 words of >>> "Shakesperean English" which, without a corresponding >>> Glossary, would be quite meaningless to numerous users (and >>> not just users specifically dealing with COGA issues). >>> >>> In all of his work – the plays, the sonnets and the >>> narrative poems – Shakespeare uses 17,677 words. Of >>> those words, Shakespeare ‘invented’ an incredible 1,700 >>> of them! >>> (http://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/resources/shakespeare-words/ >>> <http://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/resources/shakespeare-words/>) >>> >>> >>> > It is not any list - it is a word frequency list for the >>> context. >>> >>> I'm sorry Lisa, but I'm still not seeing the actual benefit >>> of generating a word frequency list - as Gregg notes >>> , >>> that list could be unique for each of hundreds of sites. >>> >>> Can >>> the COGA-TF >>> detail the direct correlation between providing a word >>> frequency list and how that benefits users with some forms >>> of cognitive disability - I really am trying to understand. >>> Thanks. >>> >>> JF >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Gregg C Vanderheiden >>> <greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>> wrote: >>> >>> that was my point >>> >>> If each site creates its own list — then how does that >>> help the reader? are they supposed to look at each >>> unique list and then learn the new words on it before >>> viewing the site? >>> >>> Does this mean that you have only to limit the unique >>> words in your navigation to 1500 unique words? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> /g/ >>> >>> Gregg C Vanderheiden >>> greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 5, 2017, at 12:05 AM, lisa.seeman >>> <lisa.seeman@zoho.com <mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> It is not any list - it is a word frequency list >>> for the context. There will be an explanation of how >>> to build on as well as links to open source scripts. >>> >>> When we wrote this and looked at different word >>> frequency lists we found that 1500 is quite a large >>> list, and included words like file"and translate >>> and it is only for specific contexts (such as sites >>> for a given profession) that might need to have a >>> specific list, >>> Globish, for example, is 1500 words. >>> >>> >>> All the best >>> >>> Lisa Seeman >>> >>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, >>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- On Thu, 04 May 2017 22:14:34 +0300 *Gregg C >>> Vanderheiden<greggvan@umd.edu >>> <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>>* wrote ---- >>> >>> two points >>> >>> 1) so how can I fail? >>> >>> * if I use less than 1500 different words in >>> my navigation — and I compile a list of 1500 >>> from my navigation elements — it will always >>> pass be definition. Any list? >>> >>> >>> >>> * if the list is a list I pick so that it >>> covers the words I use — how does that help >>> a user who doestn now those words? >>> >>> >>> >>> * if you build it for URLs that are any >>> reasonable size sites — you will find the >>> most common words are mostly the same and >>> look like “of, the and with because >>> etc. and it still won’t cover the >>> technical terms. and if it did — why are >>> we assuming that users will know the >>> technical terms on this website. >>> >>> >>> I’m kind of confused as to the underlying model. >>> It looks like we are stretching our language >>> to cover individual issues as they come up? >>> >>> (we looked at plain language for a year and a >>> half when doing WCAG 2.0 — and kept running >>> into these same walls. And we had John Slatin - >>> a huge advocate for plain language as co-chair >>> and lead on this in one of our rounds (we >>> actually took runs at this a couple times — >>> bringing in plain language experts when we did.) >>> >>> this is a great topic — but we could not find a >>> way to address it. >>> >>> I am hoping that we can soon create a plain >>> language Assistive technology - that can take >>> text and translate it into diffferent levels of >>> plain language like we translate between >>> languages — so that the same provisions that >>> make all text available to other AT can make it >>> available to plain language AT. This also has >>> the advantage that such assistive technology can >>> take into account the words known by each user. >>> and also the language level of the user >>> >>> >>> >>> g >>> >>> On May 4, 2017, at 2:51 PM, lisa.seeman >>> <lisa.seeman@zoho.com >>> <mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>> wrote: >>> >>> You can use any list for the context. There >>> is a open source script for building a list >>> from a list of URLS. >>> >>> You can build an application using the >>> most-common form to refer to the concept >>> for this context in navigation element and >>> controls. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Foliot >>> Principal Accessibility Strategist >>> Deque Systems Inc. >>> john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com> >>> >>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > John Foliot > Principal Accessibility Strategist > Deque Systems Inc. > john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com> > > Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion -- Joshue O Connor Director | InterAccess.ie
Received on Wednesday, 10 May 2017 19:08:22 UTC