- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:53:48 +0000
- To: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
- Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro <jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, "public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
- Message-ID: <CA+ri+V=g-FmPW5VjWTRGK0Cpg=D57x9dnQ+ps7AcwNjVq9XO3Q@mail.gmail.com>
hi Rik, so where does that leave the situation? do we have implementer agreement on the less restrictive definition in canvas 2d context spec or do we have convince hixie over on whatwg? -- Regards SteveF HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> On 18 February 2014 17:30, Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote: > >> note: the issue of canvas sub dom restrictions is not new, this was >> discussed back in mid 2012 and resulted in proposed changes the the canvas >> 2d context spec to remove the restriction [1] >> >> an example of where the ability to use ARIA role, states and properties >> on divs and spans etc is this canvas rich UI library >> http://www.zebkit.com/ >> >> [1] >> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/index.php?title=User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-201&oldid=13386#Details >> > > You're correct! I forgot that the HTML WG had a change proposal on this. > The WG decided to remove the limitation [1] and I integrated this on Sep > 22, 2012 [2] > > So, at least for the w3c version of the spec, this has been fixed. > > 1: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-201#Details > 2: > https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/450357fe6734bdd23efc9a9367b50438bafa3763 > > >> On 17 February 2014 22:56, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>wrote: >> >>> response between <rss> and </rss> >>> >>> >>> Rich Schwerdtfeger >>> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 01:12:43 >>> PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <sch]Rik >>> Cabanier ---02/17/2014 01:12:43 PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, >>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com> >>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS >>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro < >>> jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, " >>> public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov < >>> surkov.alexander@gmail.com> >>> Date: 02/17/2014 01:12 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger < >>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rik, >>> >>> Sure I can elaborate. >>> >>> When I author ARIA markup I am going to set the role on the element >>> in fallback content along with any ARIA states and properties I will have. >>> The spec. says that I, as author, MUST us a control in fallback content >>> (which I assume is an HTML5 control) or I am going to have to put a role in >>> the API call that sets up the hit region. Why should I have to put a role >>> in the API when I normally put it on an element in fallback content. >>> Example: >>> >>> <div role="checkbox" aria-checked="true"> >>> >>> vs. the spec. telling me I have to do: >>> >>> <div aria-checked="true"> and supplying the role through the API. >>> This makes no sense. >>> >>> >>> No, you don't have to do this. From the spec: >>> >>> if any of the following conditions are met, throw a >>> NotSupportedError exception and abort these steps. >>> ... >>> The arguments object's control and role members are both non-null. >>> >>> You are not allowed to specify a control and a role at the same time. >>> The role has to come from the control. >>> >>> You do have to provide a HTML control: >>> >>> <rss> What does it mean to apply a role but no corresponding element? >>> </rss> >>> >>> >>> if any of the following conditions are met, throw a >>> NotSupportedError exception and abort these steps. >>> ... >>> The arguments object's control member is not null but is neither >>> an a element that represents a hyperlink, a button element, an input >>> element whosetype attribute is in one of the Checkbox or Radio Button >>> states, nor an input element that is a button. >>> >>> >>> Maybe that can be relaxed? (Why not text input for instance?) >>> >>> <rss> I think this needs to be relaxed a fair bit. Most web authors use >>> <div>s and <span>s in stead of standard input controls. Making it >>> accessible would require an ARIA role on the content as well as ARIA >>> attributes </rss> >>> >>> >>> We also may have a situation like the following: >>> >>> <table role="grid" onclick="foo()"> >>> <TR><TD>cell 1</td></tr> >>> </table> >>> >>> The hit test region could be for cell 1 and then bubble up to the >>> grid. >>> >>> >>> That is allowed. The event is routed to cell 1 and will then bubble >>> <rss> My point being the TD is not a standard input control. So, if it >>> is not an input control then the spec. wants you to supply a role but >>> authors do more than supply roles. Let's talk about this on the call. >>> Perhaps Ian will participate on the call today. </rss> >>> >>> >>> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 >>> 12:35:13 PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schw]Rik >>> Cabanier ---02/17/2014 12:35:13 PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, >>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <*schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>>wrote: >>> > Rik, >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>> >>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS >>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com* <dmazzoni@google.com>>, >>> Jay Munro <*jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>>, Mark >>> Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>>, "*public-canvas-api@w3.org*<public-canvas-api@w3.org>" >>> <*public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, Alexander >>> Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com* <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>> >>> Date: 02/17/2014 12:35 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger < >>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote: >>> Rik, >>> >>> That design is fundamentally broken for these reasons: >>> >>> If you were OK with the focus ring API, why are you not OK with hit >>> regions? It seems hit regions can do everything that focus rings could do >>> (except of course draw the focus boundary which is why we still have that >>> API) >>> 1. It is frankly stupid that the fallback element needs to be an >>> HTML5 control and not having their be a role in fallback content because >>> authors are going to have to add states and properties. >>> >>> Is the issue that there's no requirement for a role? >>> Can you elaborate? >>> >>> 2. Why would we make the author have to implement half the ARIA >>> work in the Canvas API and the other half in the fallback content? >>> >>> Is this because you need to tag a group of elements with a role and >>> you can't assign a control to it? >>> If so, that is indeed a bit strange, but I don't really see a way >>> around it. Hit regions ignore the structure of the canvas shadow DOM so you >>> have to recreate it. >>> >>> 3. Events Bubble and a container may handle the event. >>> >>> In short making these restrictive requirements makes absolutely >>> no technical sense whatsoever. It makes things harder on the developer. >>> >>> What would you like to see? >>> >>> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 >>> 10:00:08 AM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schw]Rik >>> Cabanier ---02/17/2014 10:00:08 AM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM, >>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <*schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>>wrote: >>> > Rik, >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>> >>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS >>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com* <dmazzoni@google.com>>, >>> Jay Munro <*jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>>, >>> Mark Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>>, " >>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>" < >>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, Alexander >>> Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com* <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>> >>> Date: 02/17/2014 10:00 AM >>> >>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger < >>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote: >>> Rik, >>> >>> Inherit, at this time, must mean that the role passed to >>> correspond with the fallback element must be available as an element >>> attribute on that element otherwise an accessibility test tool will not >>> pick it up. >>> >>> What is the "role passed to correspond with the fallback element"? >>> You either have a control or you pass a role. It's not allowed to >>> do both >>> >>> Another issue is that if there were a role on the fallback >>> element we cannot simply replace it as the ATs will not pick up role >>> changes. You would actually have to delete the node and create a new one in >>> its place having a new role. >>> >>> Rich >>> >>> >>> Rich Schwerdtfeger >>> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/16/2014 >>> 12:08:18 PM---On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schw]Rik >>> Cabanier ---02/16/2014 12:08:18 PM---On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM, >>> Richard Schwerdtfeger <*schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>>wrote: >>> > Congrats to Mozil >>> >>> From: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>> >>> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS >>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com*<dmazzoni@google.com>>, >>> Alexander Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com*<surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>, >>> "*public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>" < >>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, Mark >>> Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>>, Jay Munro < >>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>> >>> Date: 02/16/2014 12:08 PM >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger < >>> *schwer@us.ibm.com* <schwer@us.ibm.com>> wrote: >>> Congrats to Mozilla! We will still need the >>> drawFocusIfNeeded though per Rik's comment below. >>> >>> One concern I have about the current hit region spec. is >>> that it only allows the author to provide a role that does not show up in >>> the DOM so until we get some changes in that we want for ARIA 1.1 (to query >>> the role) the accessibility test tools won't pick up the role. >>> Additionally, a role is not enough. We need states and properties. We would >>> be better to simply apply ARIA attributes to the DOM at this time. >>> >>> Hi Rich, >>> >>> the minimal implementation always requires that you provide a >>> control (= an element in the fallback content). >>> The region is supposed to inherit the ARIA role of that >>> element. Would that not be sufficient? >>> >>> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Dominic Mazzoni >>> ---02/14/2014 01:36:50 PM---I'm interested in implementing hit regions in >>> Chrome, but]Dominic Mazzoni ---02/14/2014 01:36:50 PM---I'm >>> interested in implementing hit regions in Chrome, but I haven't discussed >>> it with all of the sta >>> >>> From: Dominic Mazzoni <*dmazzoni@google.com*<dmazzoni@google.com> >>> > >>> To: Jay Munro <*jaymunro@microsoft.com*<jaymunro@microsoft.com> >>> > >>> Cc: Rik Cabanier <*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>>, >>> Alexander Surkov <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com*<surkov.alexander@gmail.com>>, >>> "*public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>" < >>> *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>>, >>> Mark Sadecki <*mark@w3.org* <mark@w3.org>> >>> Date: 02/14/2014 01:36 PM >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm interested in implementing hit regions in Chrome, but I >>> haven't discussed it with all of the stakeholders at Google yet. I'm really >>> excited to see that Mozilla has already implemented it and that should >>> definitely give us some momentum. >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Jay Munro < >>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>> wrote: >>> Lets see what folks say Monday on hit regions, whether >>> we put them in CR or not. Mark, want to add it to the agenda? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Windows Phone >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *Rik Cabanier >>> * Sent: *2/14/2014 11:20 AM >>> >>> * To: *Jay Munro >>> * Cc: *Alexander Surkov; *public-canvas-api@w3.org*<public-canvas-api@w3.org>; >>> Mark Sadecki >>> * Subject: *Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jay Munro < >>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>> >>> wrote: >>> We've already removed all the at risk features with >>> the exception of drawFocusIfNeeded , which was agreed >>> upon in the A11y subgroup. >>> >>> >>> We'll have to bring it back if we want a11y to work in >>> canvas :-( >>> >>> *From:* Rik Cabanier [mailto:*cabanier@gmail.com*<cabanier@gmail.com>] >>> >>> * Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2014 10:15 AM >>> * To:* Jay Munro >>> * Cc:* Alexander Surkov; *public-canvas-api@w3.org*<public-canvas-api@w3.org>; >>> Mark Sadecki >>> >>> >>> * Subject:* Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Jay Munro < >>> *jaymunro@microsoft.com* <jaymunro@microsoft.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Do we have a 2nd implementation of hitRegions? >>> >>> >>> >>> We do not. >>> >>> They are listed as at-risk so we can still go to CR >>> with them. >>> >>> >>> >>> We should probably update the at-risk list to state >>> that *part* or all of hit regions might be removed. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * From:* Rik Cabanier [mailto:*cabanier@gmail.com* <cabanier@gmail.com>] >>> >>> * Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2014 9:33 AM >>> * To:* Alexander Surkov >>> * Cc:* *public-canvas-api@w3.org* <public-canvas-api@w3.org>; Mark >>> Sadecki >>> * Subject:* Re: hit regions Firefox support update >>> >>> >>> >>> I just requested that the patches are checked into >>> firefox. >>> >>> If all goes well, this means that the upcoming >>> nightly build will have basic support for hit regions. >>> >>> >>> >>> If people had earlier tests for drawFocusIfNeeded, >>> they can simply update them as follows. >>> >>> old code: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ctx.drawFocusIfNeeded(element); >>> >>> new code: >>> ctx.drawFocusIfNeeded(element); >>> ctx.addHitRegion({control: element}; >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Alex, how can we turns hit regions and focus rings >>> on by default? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Surkov >>> <*surkov.alexander@gmail.com*<surkov.alexander@gmail.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi. Here's an update of hit region implementation >>> in Firefox in case if you're curious . >>> >>> This week we've got a prototype of hit regions >>> which can be used to change accessible boundaries. The work hasn't been >>> landed into Firefox Nightly yet but there's a try build [2]. >>> >>> There's no plans to continue the work on >>> drawFocusIfNeeded to fit it for accessible boundaries setting since hit >>> regions looks promising. It's worth to notice though that drawFocusIfNeeded >>> (used to draw the focus) is part of Firefox and there's no actions to undo >>> this. >>> >>> >>> >>> You can follow hit regions work by watching >>> Mozilla bug [1]. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Alexander. >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> *https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=966591*<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=966591> >>> [2] >>> *https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=a0775f0bf042*<https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=a0775f0bf042> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
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Received on Wednesday, 19 February 2014 09:55:03 UTC